Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

[For the Mods. I am opening this thread only for information purposes and not to have slanging match with anyone - If you feel that this thread should be deleted/closed please do so (as if you need my permission.)]

*Narrated Abu Hurayra (RA): The Prophet (s) said, "The (people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all Together) looking at each other. The prophet Moses (RA) used to take bath, alone. They said, ‘By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from talking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.’ So, once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with the clothes. Moses followed the stone saying, “My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! Till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said 'By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone.” Abu- Hurayra added, “By Allah! There are still six or seven marks present on the stone from the beating.” * Sahih Bukhari

Sheraz-CT I think you were querying about this hadith repeatedly in that now (infamous) thread ( www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=178031 ). I was hoping that some more knowledgeable person will respond.

Anyway I got in touch with a very good friend of mine who is well aware about the hadiths from Sahih Bukhari that Shias generally ‘throw’ at Sunnis to ‘explain’.

Before I state what my dear friend had replied, I would like to add the following points myself.

If you read about Hz. Musa (as) in the Quran you will notice that even stranger events took place.

  1. Moses turns his staff into a snake and makes his hand turn white. Quran reference: - 26:32

  2. Moses throws his staff down which turns into a huge serpent and it swallows the wizards’ ‘serpents’. Quran reference: -26:45

  3. Moses turns his staff into a serpent. Quran reference: - 20: 18-20

  4. He split the Red Sea by striking it with the staff that he was holding.

Hz. Musa (as) was a Prophet of Allah (swt); and Prophets do perform miracles.

You may be finding it ‘funny’ that the “stone ran away with the Hz. Musa (ra)’s clothes. I am going to narrate and incident from Prophet Muhammad (saw)‘s life. Please do not ask me for reference as I read a long time ago. (If you don’t believe it just discard it)

Abu Jahal once confronted Prophet Muhammad (saw), while concealing some pebbles in his fists with: “You claim that you are a Prophet of Allah and that Allah gives you the news of the unknown?”

Yes, that’s what I claim” replied the Prophet (saw).

Now tell me what do I have in my hands” asked Abu Jahal rather eagerly.

I’ll do one better, that what you have in your hands will inform you about me” was Prophet Muhammad (saw)’s reply.

We bear witness that you Muhammad are the Prophet of Allah” was heard by every one within the earshot coming from the closed fists of Abu Jahal.

Enraged and in shock Abu Jahal threw the stones down and retorted, “You are nothing but a magician” before he stormed away.

I am sure you believe in the splitting of the moon by the Prophet (saw). Try telling this to your non-Muslim friends and they will laugh their heads off.

This is what my knowledgeable friend has stated:

Now coming to the hadith that you have questioned; there is another more detailed hadith covering the same incident is as follows:

Narrated Abu Huraira:- Allah’s Apostle said, "(The Prophet) Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying, ‘He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.’ Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took off his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled; Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying, ‘O stone! Give me my garment!’ Till he reached a group of Bani Israel who saw him naked then, and found him the best of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there and Moses took and put his garment on and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four or five marks. THIS IS WAS WHAT ALLAH REFERS TO IN HIS SAYING: – “O you who believe! Be you not like those Who annoyed Moses, But Allah proved his innocence of that which they alleged, And he was honorable In Allah’s Sight.” (33.69) - Sahih Al-Bukhari - Volume 4, Book 55, Number 616

The children of Israel mistreated Moses (pbuh) a lot. His agony was not limited to mutiny, stupidity, chattering, ignorance, and idolatry; it exceeded this and went as far as inflicting personal harm on him.

Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took his clothes and put them on a s tone and started taking a bath.

When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled. Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying: ‘O stone! Give me my garment!’ till he reached a group of children of Israel who saw him naked then, and found him in the best shape of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of.

The stone stopped there, and Moses took and put on his garment and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four, or five marks. This was what Allah the Almighty refers to in His saying: O you who believe! Be not like those who annoyed Moses, but Allah cleared him of that which they alleged, and he was honourable in Allah’s sight!" (Ch 33:69 Quran) (Sahih Al-Bukhari)

Now for a real surprise for you.

This hadith is also recorded by your great (Shia) Mufassir Abul-hasan Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi in his Tafsir of Quran ‘Tafsir-ul-Qummi’ of Sura Al-Ahzab where he records the following:

“Abu Abdullah (Imam Jaffar) reported that that Banu Israil were saying that Mosa doesn’t have what men have and when Musa wanted to take a bath he would go to a place where nobody could see him. One day he was taking a bath at a river, so he put his clothes on a stone so Allah (swt) ordered the stone (to go away) so it went away from him until Banu Israil saw him and knew that it was wrong what they said about him.”

The prominent Shia scholar al-Fadl b. al-Hasan al-Tabrisi has confirmed this event in his Majma’ Al-Bayan.

Another prominent Shia scholar, Ni’matallah al-Jaza’iri, has defended this report, too.

Now you did not know that prominent Shia scholars and Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (ra) ( Keep in mind that you take him to be an infallible person and you cannot doubt or contradict his sayings) are in complete agreement with the hadith which you were mocking at.

You can confirm with Shia scholars of the references given from the Shias books.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

^
i always thought verse 33:69 referred to the false accusation of adultery that Moosa (as) was charged with by bani israel....

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

ibn sadique
i posted this hadith a few years back as well..didnt get an answer..even it took you a while to find an answer..its true i dont know whether it is reported in shia books or not..i will have to check it out
i do believe Prophets performed miracles with the will of Allah..but still dont understand what kind of miracle is it to run naked after a stone..this is Prophet of Allah we are talking about..just very confusing..anyways i will have to find out.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

^
i too rejected it on the same basis....
Allah wud not make his prophet run naked in the market....

perhaps u wud wish to comment on the authenticity of this report....

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

^ are you being sarcastic?

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

^
nahin yaar....
seriously, the first time i heard it, i directly refused to accept it as anywhere near authentic....

and as i mentioned in my first post, i dont even agree with the verse mentioned in ibn sadique's post to be refering to this instance....

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Abu Abdullah see the following link: http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=33&tid=42231

It is Tafsir by Imam Ibn Kathir (rahimullah) and he has quoted the same hadith. I don’t think you will dispute Imam Ibn Kathir (ra).

**Sheraz ** - I’ll respond to you later. I have to go to the airport to receive some guests from Saudi Arabia. In the meantime you work on the references from the Shia books.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Subhaan Allaah.

This Hadeeth is so beautiful. And I love it.

Jazaakallaahu khayraa.

Thanks for increasing my Eemaan by posting this Hadeeth.

Alhamdulillaah.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Well, I just thought of another Hadeeth that I really really love about Moosaa - 'alayhis-salaam.

The one where the Angel of Death comes to him, and Moosaa slaps him. lol. Sooooo beautiful. Subhaan Allah.

Yes, indeed the Shee'ah do bash us for this beautiful and wonderful Hadeeth. But who cares. Can someone put it up for me? I love it.

I love 'Umar ibn al-Khattaab. He reminds me of Moosaa - 'alayhis-salaam. And Aboo Bakr reminds me of Rasoolullaah - sallallaahu 'alayhee wassallam.

I think the Hadeeth is in Saheeh Muslim - But I aint sure. It is in the Saheehayn though. But I cannot locate it right now.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

unfortunately for you guys, I had a little free time on my hands, so prepare to be bored...

DOES ANYONE ELSE RECORD THE AFOREMENTIONED HADITH OF ABU HURAIRA?

The hadith of Abu Huraira in al Bukhari about Prophet Musa bathing that was cited by Ibn Sadique is also recorded from Abu Huraira in whole or in part in...

Sahih Muslim
Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbih
Musanaf Abd al Razzaq
Musnad Ahmed ibn Hanbal
Musnad Abd ibn Humayd
Musnad Ishaq ibn Rahawiyya
Sunan al Tirmidhi
al Nasai's Sunan al Kubra
Sahih Ibn Hibban
al Tahawi's Mushkil al Athar
al Bayhaqi's Sunan al Kubra
Ibn al Mundhir's al Awsat
... and others...

DO ANY OTHER COMPANIONS RELATE THE SAME HADITH?

It is reported by at least two other companions (as referenced by al Shawkani in Fath al Qadir)...

Anas ibn Malik: Recorded in Musnad al Bazzar and Ibn Mardawiyya

Ibn Abbas: Recorded in Musanaf Ibn Abi Shayba, Tafsir al Tabari, Mustadrak al Hakim (who authenticated it), and Ibn Mardawiyya

ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS HADITH WAS RECORDED AND TRANSMITTED

As for the authenticity of the hadith... aside from it being in al Bukhari and Muslim, this particular report is an interesting example of a hadith that is not only recorded in what is probably the earliest extant hadith work (the Sahifa of Hammam ibn Munabbih) but also a prime example of a hadith passed from teacher to student in continuous written form...

-- On one occasion Abu Huraira dictated 138 hadith (the hadith of Musa bathing was one of them) in a single sitting to his student...

--- Hammam ibn Munabbih who recorded the hadith in a work available today in manuscript and as a printed edition (Sahifa Hammam ibn Munabbih - the hadith of Musa is #61 in the collection)... Hammam narrated the hadith to one his most famous students...

--- Ma'mar ibn Rashid, who recorded it in his al Jami' collection (available in print today as part of the following work)... Ma'mar reported it to his most famed student…

--- Abd al Razzaq, who recorded it in his work, al Musanaf, which along with Ma’mar’s al Jami is also available in print today…

So up to here we already have three published hadith works (all prior to al Bukhari) containing the report under discussion in which we see the hadith transmitted from the earliest time from teacher to student in a series of books...

One could also add that Abd al Razzaq's most famous student, Ahmed ibn Hanbal, also has his Musnad collection of hadith and this hadith is in there too…

al Bukhari himself recorded the hadith from the above personalities through another one of Abd al Razzaq's students, namely Ishaq ibn Nasr... as an example here is al Bukhari's isnad for the hadith at Vol.1, no. 277:

Ishaq ibn Nasr related to us, saying:

Abd al Razzaq related to us, on the authority of:

Ma'mar, on the authority of:

Hammam ibn Munabbih, on the authority of:

Abu Hurairah, from:

The Prophet (saw)

DOES ANYONE OTHER THAN HAMMAM IBN MUNABBIH REPORT THIS HADITH FROM ABU HURAIRA?

So do al Hasan al Basri, Abdullah ibn Shaqiq, Muhammad Ibn Sirin, and Khalas Ibn Amr...

THE MEANING OF VERSE 33:69

Five interpretations are given for 33:69 across the various tafasir... four of these are summarised by Ibn al Jawzi in his Zad al Masir fi Ilm al Tafsir:

  1. The one understood from the hadith cited above by Ibn Sadique
  2. That Bani Israil accused Musa of killing Harun
  3. That Qarun had a prostitute charge Musa with committing adultery with her
  4. That Musa was blamed for being a sorcerer and being insane

Another (fifth) possible interpretation is suggested by al Razi in Mafatih al Ghayb and by al Alusi in Ruh al Ma'ani...

  1. That Allah declared Musa blameless and innocent of their sayings: "So go you and Lord and fight, we will sit here" (2:24), "We cannot endure one kind of food" (2:61), and "We shall never believe in you until we see Allah plainly" (2:55)

Various commentators have related, discussed and preferred the above five interpretations as follows...

Al Tabari mentions #1 and #2 (Jami' al Bayan);
al Qurtubi discusses #1, #2 and #4;
Ibn Kathir gives #1 and #2 (Tafsir al Qur'an);
Tafsir Jalalayn mentions only #1;
al Baydawi has #1, #2, and #3 (Anwar al Tanzil);
al Shawkani has #1 and #2 (Fath al Qadir);
Ibn Abd al Salam gives #1, #2, and #4 (Tafsir al Qur'an);
al Nasafi gives #2 and #3 (Madarik al Tanzil);
al Tha'labi mentions only #1 - but leaves it open for other interpretations (al Jawahir al Hisan);
al Suyuti has #1 and #2 (Dur al Manthur);

IN CONCLUSION...

It is not far fetched to conclude, as indicated by al Tabari, al Qurtubi, and al Alusi, that we should understand 33:69 to mean that Allah declared Prophet Musa's innocence from each and every one of the above allegations...

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Brother gupguppy May Allah (swt) reward you amply. It's very informative post.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

*Sheraz-CT * - As I had promised you that I will respond later, so here it is.

[QUOTE]
i posted this hadith a few years back as well..didnt get an answer
[/QUOTE]

It doesn’t mean that if it did not get answered a few years ago the answer to it was not there.

[QUOTE]
even it took you a while to find an answer.
[/QUOTE]

I had the answer with me on the very day you asked for it from a ‘very knowledgeable friend’ of mine. As I had said I was waiting for some more knowledgeable than me to respond. When I saw that the thread had turned into a slanging and name-calling match, I was in no mood to ‘enter’ that thread. I preferred the option of waiting a few days more and respond by opening a new thread.

Alhamdulilah for that I knew my ‘very knowledgeable friend’ and was able to answer your query.

[QUOTE]
..its true i dont know whether it is reported in shia books or not..i will have to check it out
[/QUOTE]

We always learn as we go along. The book references are given. I advise you to ask a prominent Shia scholar of repute or better use the services of your marajah.

[QUOTE]
..but still dont understand what kind of miracle is it to run naked after a stone..this is Prophet of Allah we are talking about
[/QUOTE]

I understand your sensitivities. Please try to understand the hadith by trying to read it again. Just pretend that it is not from Sahih Bukhari and is only from the Shia references that I have given you.

The Quran testifies that Hz. Musa (as)’s followers were a rebellious lot. At many a times he was frustrated, annoyed and even exasperated with them over their callous behaviour.

They accused him falsely of “some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect” or better still to use Imam Jaffar (ra)’s words that “Banu Israil were saying that Mosa doesn't have what men have”.

Now surely persistence use of such insinuations and accusations would have hurt Hz. Musa (as). Now it is beyond stature of Hz. Musa (as) to ‘expose’ himself to prove them wrong. The hadith no way implies that Hz. Musa (as) exposed himself to his tormentors.

If you are going to imagine this statement “When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled;” to be from some Disney cartoon that a rock with tiny legs, hands clutching the clothes and the big eyes focused on Hz. Musa (as) in hot pursuit, it would indeed be funny.

Why don’t you ‘see’ it that Hz. Musa (as) could have kept his clothes on the rock which must be on the top of rather high embankment of the river. Allah (saw) must have willed the stone to roll down the embankment dragging the clothes along. Try to read the words used by Imam Jaffar (ra) “One day he was taking a bath at a river, so he put his clothes on a stone so Allah (swt) ordered the stone (to go away)”

As you can see from Brother Gupguppy’s excellent post that shows that majority of prominent ‘Sunni’ scholars hold his hadith to be correct and that coupled with Shia references that Shia Imams and prominent scholars hold the same view gives tremendous strength to the soundness of this hadith.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

excellent approach armughal, May Allah (swt) bless you for this.

Theres no authentic book other then Quran. And its made obligatory for every muslim to say their prayers five time daily . But lets see what Quran says abot prayer:

[Shakir 4:43] O you who believe! do not go near prayer
[Yusufali 4:43] O ye who believe! Approach not prayers
[Pickthal 4:43] O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer

Do you believe that Allah who orders us to pray five times daily forbid us to go near prayer??

The answer is very simple. I have also added the verse numbers to make it easier for you. But think before you answer.

Has this very good friend of yours also done something about Rushdee's (la) book Satainc Verses, Because its not a secret after all what his major source was. Believe me brother, If he is very well aware about the hadiths from Sahih Bukhari then he should really refute this La'nati kafir's (Rushdee) work, which was thrown at the face of whole muslim ummah. Or he is just upto find faults in the shia beliefs??

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

I don’t mean to imply that you are ignorant, but your quoting the Quran to suit your argument shows that indeed not only are you hiding, twisting, manipulating and distorting the meaning of the above mentioned verse out of context but are actually deviating others from the straight path to follow your own wayward path.

Here is the verse in **full **context as to why this verse was revealed…

Yusuf Ali:

** O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For God doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.


Shakir:
**
** O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say, nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.

Pickthall:

**O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying upon the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands (therewith). Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.

The way you have presented this verse to suit your argument shows how devious you can be to present your case as being right…

It’s like this, let’s say I say to you:

“Always lie, cheat, steal and hurt others if you wish to be punished by Allah :swt: and incur His wrath. But if you fear Him, then stay away from these things because they are an evil and cause harm to yourself in this world and the next.”

Then what you do, just to prove your case, you say, “Lajawab said, always lie, cheat, steal and hurt others…”

Taking things out of context especially the Quran to suit your arguments is what Islam warns us strictly against because that is what the Bani Israel used to do…And that is what you practice…

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Thanx A Lot For Proving My Point. (the text above bolded in green) Thats exactly what I wanted to hear. :wave:

If it was my intension to misquote that verse I would not have given the verse number. Again, read what I posted above:

I just wanted to see how someone would react if something is misquoted from the sacred text. Thanx again! you posted exactly what I wanted.

Now lets analyse what Ibn Sadique posted above:

A “very good” friend of his informed him that shia Imam, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) comfirmed the incident in some shia tafsir books.

Now the questions are, was it verbal or was it like this that his friend showed him the books it was written in? Did he himself (ibn sadique) read the whole incident written in that book? Did he read that it was narrated form the Shia Imam?

If it was only verbal and his friend only informed him with out showing the books, then Ibn Sadique went against the teachings of Quran by believing him. As we read in Quran:

“Oh you believe, if a transgressor comes to you with news, try to verify it, lest you inflict damage on people unwittingly; then you may consequently regret your hasty action. (ch. 49, v.6)”

And if it was not verbal then he should prove his point by giving the full reference of the book. And if he indeed is of true claim, has taken the book in his hands and read himself whats written in it, then he should atleast present some scanned images of the books so readers can see that he was honest in proving his point. And what he wrote above was not MISQUOTED.

And if it was a work of “The prominent Shia scholars” back then, then this must also be the view of modern shia scholars. Can any one show me any link, book from modern Shia Scholars who narrates the incident from Imam Al-Sadiq (as).

There is a rule of Refutation (Asul-e-radd). If you want to refute/reject your opponents claim then you should provoid evidence from their source. And thats what Hasan Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi did in his Tafsir of Quran ‘Tafsir-ul-Qummi’ of Sura Al-Ahzab.

Ibn Sadique! Was Al-Qummi quoting Imam Al-Sadiq (as) or did he show view of Ahl-Sunnah on that verse of Quran by quoting traditions from Al-Jaami’-ul-Kabeer by Al-Suyuti?

Again, think before you answer**. :)**

Sunni claim that this incident really took place because it is reported in Sahih books and also by commentators of quran in their Tafasir. Please tell, all these people who wrote those sahih books and Tafasir, were the infallible? Are their words and judgement final and cannot be wrong??

There is another incident written in Sahih Bukhari, where Prophet (s) get naked in public and then fell unconscious because of the shame. I am sure Ibn Sadique would also has some justification of this incident.

Me and armughal may have differences but I heartedly appreciate his approach on this matter. May Allah (swt) bless him for that. And I encourage other sunnis too to follow this approach and read what he has written above. Because all those people who wrote those sahih books and commentaries were certianly fallible.

May Allah (swt) help us all to distinguish between truth a lie.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Brother Zero1 – This “very good” friend of mine (he actually takes me as his brother and I reciprocate in kind) is very knowledgeable of Shia Imami faith as he was once of the same faith. He belongs to a very prominent Shia family in Iran.

About six years ago with a lot of research he said goodbye to Shiaism. He has been debating with Shias using **‘Student’ **as his ‘Username’ on the Net for quite sometime and earning their wrath. You can search for his debates on Shiachat. (He doesn’t there much nowadays as he is busy setting up his own website.

He is the very reason that I ‘arrived’ at Gupshup – to post his now very famous article (How to debate with Shia). You can read it here: Be warned it is 6 pages long!!!

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=83916

I have full trust in his integrity and reliability as he is God-fearing man. It is true that I have taken his word for it and did not see the books with my own eyes. You have quoted the following ayah:

**"Oh you believe, **if a transgressor comes to you with news, try to verify it, lest you inflict damage on people unwittingly; then you may consequently regret your hasty action. (ch. 49, v.6)"

I am taking the liberty of getting some more translations of the same ayah below:

O you who believe! **if an evil-doer **comes to you with a report, look carefully into it, lest you harm a people in ignorance, then be sorry for what you have done. [Shakir 49:6]

O ye who believe! **If a wicked person **comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done. [Yusufali 49:6]

O ye who believe! **If an evil-liver **bring you tidings, verify it, lest ye smite some folk in ignorance and afterward repent of what ye did. [Pickthal 49:6]

By quoting this ayah you have just proved the point **brother Lajawab **was making against you.

Please make sure that when you quote an ayah from the Quran, it fits in well what you are trying to prove. Here you have failed dismally.

Please pay heed to the emboldened words “if a transgressor”, “if an evil-doer” and “If a wicked person”, they are the condition and the “very good friend” of mine has none of that in him. As I said before, he is a God-fearing man.

He has given the quotations of your Imams (ra) with the references from the named books – You just have to deny that what he has said is not in your books and then I will ask him to provide you with scanned proofs from the said books. (It may take time but will be done surely)

Deal?

I am afraid when that’s done (providing you the scanned proofs of the pages from the books). All that you will say is “We don take our books to be reliable – and so I reject what my Imam has been quoted saying” This happens all the time.

I have seen Shias rejecting off hand quotations of Imam Muhammed Al Baqir (ra) and Imam Jaffar As-Sadiq (ra) where they have heaped praises on Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) and Hz. Omar Al Khattab (ra) just because it doesn’t fit with their version of history.

Whereas the Quran is full of praise for those who were early ‘Muhajirn’, those who fought in Badr and those who were present at Hudhaybiyyah. [Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) and Hz. Omar Al Khattab (ra) were present at all these ‘incidents’]

You should know better that Sunnis believe that apart from the Prophets (Peace be upon them all) no human is infallible whether they be from the Noble Sahabah (raa) of the Prophet (saw) or his Noble family (including the blessed wives of the Prophet (saw).

That’s the spirit - And I say Ameen to that.

Re: Hadith: Hazrat Musa (as) and the Stone - for Sheraz-CT

Assalamualikum,
I have also read this hadith and it is a sahih hadith.
By the way i read the article of threference Ibn Sadique provided and it was awesome.
I also wanted to ask u Ibn Sadique that where do u live.Can i have ur email address at hotmail so that i can contact u.