From the Sunnah of Abu-Dawood
Narated by Anas ibn Malim:
Hatdit no. 2526
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, “There is no god but Allah” and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.
in our religion its Makrooh to call any non muslim a kafir, but
there is no flexibility for Murtads(like ahamdits)
its your religious responsibility to tell other muslim brothers about false faiths and beliefs
because non muslims disguised as muslims are more dangerous than common kafirs
Hadrath Abubakr Siddiq(what a lovely man he was)didn't fight with non muslims on many issues in his time, but
announced a massive Jihad against those who refused to pay Zakat, he didn't give them any concession because they claimed themselves muslims
[quote]
Originally posted by Topee Wala:
**From the Sunnah of Abu-Dawood
Narated by Anas ibn Malim:
Hatdit no. 2526
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist). The tyranny of any tyrant and the justice of any just (ruler) will not invalidate it. One must have faith in Divine decree.
Originally Quoted by Wasir:
in our religion its Makrooh to call any non muslim a kafir, but
there is no flexibility for Murtads(like ahamdits)
its your religious responsibility to tell other muslim brothers about false faiths and beliefs
because non muslims disguised as muslims are more dangerous than common kafirs
Hadrath Abubakr Siddiq(what a lovely man he was)didn't fight with non muslims on many issues in his time, but
announced a massive Jihad against those who refused to pay Zakat, he didn't give them any concession because they claimed themselves muslims.
Salaam all!
I just want to ask Wasir Bhai a question u mentioned that people who don't pay Zakat are not muslims. as we are talking about ahmadis and u mentioned about Hazrat Abu Bakr and I think with out ur opinion we all know wat a great man he was becuse he was the Khalifa of our beloved Prophet(SAW). Now I'll come back to my point about Zakat and my question do u even know about ahmadis or wat kind of Islam they practice? I'm sure before we make a allegation we should all have something to back it up shouldn't we?
As a muslim u probably have heard the hadith which reads "Alaisul Khabru kal muayanatyee" translated as Hearsay is not like seeing. I think u probably have heard a lot of stuff about Ahmadis but why don't u actually take some time out to find more about them may be that might help u. Anyways if u need any kind of help with info, I'm sure I can help out. GOOD LUCK! I hope to hear from u soon
As a muslim u probably have heard the hadith which reads "Alaisul Khabru kal muayanatyee" translated as Hearsay is not like seeing. I think u probably have heard a lot of stuff about Ahmadis but why don't u actually take some time out to find more about them may be that might help u. Anyways if u need any kind of help with info, I'm sure I can help out. GOOD LUCK! I hope to hear from u soon
Allah Hafiz!**
[/quote]
Why don't you tell us what you know about AHmadis/Qadianis?
Aside from being nice and all that, what do you know about authencity of their prophet?
What do you know about his(mirza Sahib) truthfulness in his declaration of Prophethood and other claims he made?
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
*And cover not *Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when you know (what it is).
**Quran,Al-Baqara, 42.
The hadith i quoted is sahih (which means elegible to be used in Islamic discussions)
I have ahmady friends and What i conclude from this hadith is as follows.
Indepndantly of what they think or do, we have to find out if they say 'La ila ha Illah' which they most certainly do.
So very simply calling them unbelivers is going against the sayings of the prophet Mohammed (saw). I used to believe in calling them non-muslims but i read some of their texts and then comapred them with the rumers. Here is the part of this hadith which is relevent to our discussion:
**
a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action **
So even if they dont belive in Mohammed (saw) as the last prophet (which is a sin in our eyes) or they believe that Jesus has died (which might be a sin in our eyes) and so on.... This hadith clearly states the we can not declare them as unbeliever and not to excommunicate them from Islam.
I think that due to this hadith there is no room for calling ** ANYONE WHO SAYS LA ILAHA ILLAH ** a non-believer.
This does not mean that we cant critise them... We can say that believeing in prophets after Mohammed (saw) is wrong and sinful.
The point being that only Allah decides if someone is a believer. The most important part of being a muslim is believing in one god... Allah, his angels, the day of judgement.
So please be careful, deciding who is muslim and who is not is Allah's job and not ours! We should not pretend that we have anything to do with it as well.
You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).
(Sura: Alay-Imran; Ayat:110)
Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!
Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
(And yes it’s a MALE Shaheen
Indepndantly of what they think or do, we have to find out if they say 'La ila ha Illah' which they most certainly do.
So even if they dont belive in Mohammed (saw) as the last prophet (which is a sin in our eyes) or they believe that Jesus has died (which might be a sin in our eyes) and so on.... This hadith clearly states the we can not declare them as unbeliever and not to excommunicate them from Islam.
Salaam all brothers,
I was glad to hear a response so soon, by the way i'll try my best to answer the question raised.
First of all, Topee Wala bhai u said that u have Ahmadi friends and u know that they have the same Kalima, so, how can u come up with the alligation such as Mhammad (SAW)not being the last prophet. If u do have ahmady friends, how come u r still unknown to the fact that we believe Muhammad (SAW) was the last prophet but Mirza Ghulam had the same shriat as Muhammad (SAW), he was the promissed Messiah. And I was ask for the proof for that which I soon will be providing.
A new Prophet would be who brought a different book a new religion but Mirza Ghulam Ahmed didn't bring anything new at all, so how come he can be a differnt Prophet with the same book and same shriat?I'm Coming back to ur point of ahmadis beliving Jesus being dead now. BY the way do u have any proof to say that Jesus is alive, firstly I would like to remind all of u that Muhammad (SAW) was the dearest prophet to Allah and, so, how come Jesus was taken up to heaven? If he was the dearest how come he isn't still alive and not dead.Isn't that Naouzubillah a insult to our beloved Prohet (SAW). And would You plz tell me anywhere it says that Jesus was taken to heaven and where in the Quran is this mentioned?
Well i know that some Ahmadies believe that Muhammed (saw) was the last prophet. And there are some, called qadianis, who believe that he was a prophet. I posted a msg on this called ahmedis vs Quadianis. About Jesus being taken up to heaven, that is an interpertation of the quran most muslims follow. Firstly i do not understand your logic. The friend that I have are what i would refer as qadiani but he calls himself Ahmady. I did look over the internet for the difference and I could only find 'Ahmady' sites, no qadiyani sites. So I should have named the topic regarding the qadiyanis.
The point of this post was to tell the majority of muslims that calling anyone who says Lailahailla as wrong. The reason for this is that many people start calling ahmadies or qadianis as non-muslims. It was not targeted or aimed at the followers of Mirza Ahmed. Now what you have to realise that many things which ahmadies do might seem sinfull in many peoples eyes. So i dont want to get into a discussions about the actul believes as I am not that well versed in this issue. I tried to do some resecearch but i found that there were many conflicting things said by Mirza Ahmed and that made me stop. Mirza is reported to have said that Mohammed was the last messenger and then qadiayanis believe that he changed is stance later on and that he called himself a prophet later on which is y the 2 groups have differences.
Hi
I wonder from where you have taken those ''emaan-e-mufaasil ‘’. Can you show me anywhere in The Holy Quran or Hadith that one should believe in as you quoted ‘‘All prophets and apostles until Hazrat Muhammad (SAW)’’???
[quote]
Originally posted by Nauman:
**Hi
I wonder from where you have taken those ''emaan-e-mufaasil ''. Can you show me anywhere in The Holy Quran or Hadith that one should believe in as you quoted ''All prophets and apostles until Hazrat Muhammad (SAW)''???
**
[/quote]
TELL ME ANY ONE OF THESE THINGS YOU DON'T BELIEVE AS MUSLIM?????///
Salaam all
I appriciate the point u raised Topee Wala bhai, but I think ppl have a miss understanding between the ahmadies and Qadianies. But the thing is that Ahmadies is the right term but Qadianies is just said by others sectors because Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was born there. I hope that helps, if it doesn't i'll try my best to answer ur question if u have any.
In other words, what your saying is that Mirza was NOT a prophet and he lied in his books that he receives revelation from God?
About Jesus: Allah raised him to the heavens, and says he will make him sign for the hereafter. When jesus comes down - he will be one of the signs for the judgement day. There is no prophet being special issue in this…its Allah’s choice and we have no authority to question his choice.
For Nouman: Here is dose of some knowledge, benefit from it and next time becareful of what you ask:
Allah - “He is the Lord of the heavens and the Earth and all that is in between them, so worship Him and be patient in His worship; do you know any equal to Him?” (QURAN 19:65). *
This one is interesting:
“Do they not ponder over the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah, surely they would have found in it a lot of differences” (4: 82).
Angels - We believe in the existence of the angels of Allah and that they are “honored servants. They do not speak before He does, and they act only by His command” (21:26). Allah created them, and they worship and obey Him. Those who are in His presence do not disdain to worship Him, nor do they weary" (21:19).
Some hadiths for you:
Angels are concealed from us, so we cannot see them. Allah may show them to some of His servants. The Prophet Muhammad saw Gabriel in his real shape with six hundred wings that covered the horizons (Bukhari and Muslim).
Gabriel took the form of a handsome human being who met Mary and engaged in conversation with her. He came to the Prophet while he was among his Companions in the appearance of an unknown man who did not show any trace of long travel, with very white clothes, and very black hair. He sat facing the Prophet, his knees to the Prophet’s knees, peace be upon him, and his palms on the Prophet’s thighs and talked with the Prophet. The Prophet later told his Companions that the man they saw was Gabriel (Bukhari and Muslim).
All prophets and apostles until Hazrat Muhammad (SAW) - We believe that Allah has sent to His people messengers who were “bringing good tidings and warning, so that mankind might have no argument against Allah after the Messengers. Allah is All-mighty, All-wise” (4: 165).
: “We revealed to you as We revealed to Noah and the prophets after him” (4: 163); and " O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Apostle of God and the last in the line of Prophets. And God is Aware of everything. (33:40)
We believe that the Shari’ah of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the religion of Islam, which Allah has chosen for His servants. He does not accept any other religion from anyone, for He, the Exalted, said: “Surely, the true religion in Allah’s sight is Islam” (3:19), “Today I have perfected your religion for you and I have completed My favor upon you, and I have chosen Islam to be your religion” (5:3), and “Whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from Him, and in the Hereafter he will be among the losers” (3:85).
All Divine Books - We believe that Allah sent down a book with every messenger, because He says: “Indeed We sent down Our messengers with the clear signs, and We sent down with them the book and the balance, so that people may uphold justice” (57:25).
Taqdeer
Day of judgment (life hereafter) - “And the trumpet shall be blown, and all who are in the heavens and who are in the Earth shall fall down fainting, except those that Allah shall spare. Then, it shall be blown again and they shall rise gazing around them” (39:68).
“As We started the first creation, so We shall bring it back again. This is a promise from Us, so We shall assuredly fulfill it” (21: 104).
Ghebb (Only Allah knows it and those whom Allah has given the knowledge, but again it’s Allah’s will) - “Did you not know that Allah knows all that is in heaven and Earth? Surely that is in a book. Surely that for Allah is an easy matter” (22:70).
