Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
for someone who keeps pleading all the time not to generalize when it comes to muslims, islam etc, sidny pai sure doesnt mind generalizing about things related to india or calling indians baniya all the time. :\
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Muslims need reform, so that they can be better muslims. Islam is perfect the way it is. Thanks for your concern. :k:
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Every religion needs reform.
specifically in the Gita, there is a passage where Krishna says - If a Brahmin does the work of a Shudra, he has sinned. And vice versa. I reject that passage. Simple as that.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
What Mostar and Iqbal posted was the same as Theorist posted. And they added that the Quran has passages that encourage killing of non believers. .....
I would advise millions of Indians living in Muslim majority gulf countries to get out as soon as possible. Same goes for expats from western countries in gulf states.
Muslims are encouraged to kill them by their holy book. Their lives are in imminent danger. Also, Muslims living in India should be rounded up and sent to live on reservations. These savages do not have a place in civil society. Millions of Muslims living in Bangladesh were looking for a chance to follow Quranic injunctions and they attacked this cafe as soon as they sensed non-Muslim presence there.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
What you say is true in many regards, we as a community are failing to address the most pressing issues facing us, and our scholars are not doing enough to take the task of community welfare. The job and role of a scholar should not become limited to the person we respect because he/she has memorized the Quran alone, or knows the hadith alone. A scholar knows how to suggest policies in accordance with the Quran and Sunnah. Unfortunately, that is not happening.
It all starts with regulation of Madrassas. They do good work by providing for the extremely poor who can't afford a traditional schooling experience, but they need oversight.
Waters get muddied when politics is injected into the entire thing, and any effort made to the left, right or center is bound to upset someone. Take for example the fact that KPK Govt. in Pakistan decided to (according to their leadership) regulate a well-known madrassa, and the way to do that they figure is to provide that madrassa a budget which can then be used in the most benefitting manner to bring about a curricular change, and prevent funding from other objectionable sources (name your favorite badguy country)and If that succeeds, of course it would be money well-spent. But you already have detractors like the ruling party which is currently facing corruption allegations of its' own, and the notorious conman known as Zardari taking potshots at the effort from afar.
And then there are the people of the opposite extreme who would want religion taken out of society completely without thinking about how foolish of a suggestion that would be for a society that identifies itself as being Muslim, practice of it being far from completion, but nonetheless.
The entire thing requires an all-around sincere effort. If the political component of the national machinery, the religious component of the national machinery, and the Brass do not create a singular plan, then it's bound to fail because each part of the authority will undermine the other for temporary self-motivated goals.
Unfortunately, the tragic incident of this heinous crime of executing non-muslims at the hands of illiterate fools automatically makes it a religious thing and the opportunists jump at the opportunity to ensure it stays a religious issue so that they can further their agenda.
It's not a religious problem, it's a political problem but the people involved in the incident use whatever means they feel they comprehend according to their limited thinking, even if those means happen to be using the religious text. It's the people that need education, and changing the religious is completely fine, and the religious scripture is wholesome as it always has been. When we start to demand more from our scholars in terms of their credentials, and ensuring that a regulatory body checks to see who is teaching us the truth, and filtering out the soothsayers in the garb of imams, then we'll be fine and religions will mold us into beautiful people who take the property of their neighbor as sacred and protect it and actively fight against hatred, and/or violence. Until that effort takes place at the administrative level, people will keep using whatever they feel justifies their desires, and fools among us will keep attaching religion to them further solidifying the faux shell of a cover to a political and administrative problem.
I agree it's a political problem and religion is a political movement. Religious teachings are a form of education too and it is hugely being misused. It is not misunderstood but manipulated by those who want to destroy modern societies. This is not due to lack of education, at least not all of it. It's a systematic genocide of people by a group that hates the world today. Was it easy to spread christianity, hinduism, islam, or judaism? No and it wouldn't be easy to bring about a change in how we teach islam. How is it foolish to attach religion to these incidents when those committing these crimes say so? When one is killing another person for not knowing Quran, how do you think it has nothing to do with religion? It's OK to adore your faith and follow it but let's not be blind to its flaws. Why wouldn't you address a problem when you know it exists and it's put right in front of you to make you think about it nearly everyday? I have read interviews of many people who escaped sharia law and hardly any of these people left islam, they simply reject passages that promote violence because they have lived it. Do you have to live the horror of it to see the problem? Even if it doesn't wash away all our problems, it is still something we can do and should do.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
When we proudly teach our youth how the idol of Hubal was destroyed in front of the very eyes of it's worshippers when Makkah was conquered, how can we not expect them to have this grave intolerance against anything that is unislamic?
We don't teach them what's right or wrong, we teach them what's islamic and unislamic. What's Islamic automatically becomes right. The destruction of Hubal is when the intolerance against unbelievers started. But we keep on proudly teaching them how right it was to destroy something others held holy?
Quran/religion can inspire people to do good and bad, need to acknowledge both aspects of it. So much noise when CII used verse 4:34 to justify domestic violence, everyone saying maulana is do numbri. All translations of 4:34 has the word beat/strike/hit in it. No one will dare to say 4:34 is the problem, not the maulana who is merely a tool drawing inspiration from 4:34. Same case here, many violent passages influencing terrorists. People will say terrorists are wrong, passages are good. And then expect this carnage to stop?
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
What Mostar and Iqbal posted was the same as Theorist posted. And they added that the Quran has passages that encourage killing of non believers. Without speaking for theorist, it is my guess she woukd agree.
Islam needs reform. Just as Hinduiism, Christianity etc. Any part of any religion that teaches violence or bigotry should he condemned. Rose colored glasses should come off.
NOW.
I know the Quran-hating posts of Iqbal Ali likes give you a lot of oxygen as it fulfills the ultimate goal of Islam bashing but i just wish if you have read the tafseer of Quran well enough before deducing the results.
And NO Islam doesnt need reform. The muslims need to be aligned together and have a better understanding of Quran to incorporate it in their lives. So that they can understand how much patience, respect and love is stressed in Islam. How sanctity of a human life is noble regardless of anyone's faith or belief or sexual orientation. And actually more than 95% muslims do understand it. Its just they have to figure out to put a leash on rest of the 5% around to make them understand that Islam doesnt teach to harm anyone.
Millions of Bangladeshis have not engaged in any bad activity on the name of religion for last few decades. Now six people did it and extremist haters like you have jumped the bandwagon of attacking Islam.
As far as rose colored glasses coming off, we can very well see who is removing their pretentious mask here.. oh well!!
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
The way both Mostar and Iqbal (though i'm guessing they are the multi of same person) jump up and down celebrating these events is hilarious. I know it provides opportunity to say all the BS they can think of against Islam and Quran but they are as senseless as always.
Islam has been here for 1200+ years. Terrorism started for last two decades in particularly after first Iraq war. Do the math.
Au contraire sir, Mostar bhai and I don't celebrate, rather we actually want this religiously inspired carnage to stop, which is why we don't use such opportunities to glorify our inherited religion, but rather use them to acknowledge that it has some major flaws which need to be fixed.
While you guys' primary concern is that your religion stays stain free, rest seems to be secondary. We need to acknowledge that our inherited religion has some highly problematic aspects which we need to weed out, or else this religiously inspired mayhem will continue.
Also violence has been part and parcel of all religions pretty much since their inception. If we teach our youth the truth unconditionally, about how many atrocities have been committed in the name of our inherited religion throughout history we could help them build far better nations than the muslim nations we have now.
Rather we keep on glorifying religion and telling them lies. We have even gone as far as terming the pre-islamic era as the age of jahiliyya. As if the whole world was in turmoil until it was saved by Islam. We refuse to mention all the wrongdoings committed in the name of islam by the earliest muslims. Rather we perform mental gymnastics and try to turn those wrongdoings into "righteous" actions. Do we even realize what damage this does to us muslims?
True reform will start when majority of muslims can unapologetically condemn problematic Islamic doctrines, until then it's just empty words.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
And NO Islam doesnt need reform.
Minor reform of sorts has already begun sir! Free flow of information on the internet means mainstream Islam can't go on like it has earlier; Living in it's own bubble, threatening dissidents with death penalty. People will question, people will point out flaws, people will say Quran can inspire to do good and bad, need to tackle the bad parts more honestly.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Now here is the evident problem. All Indian trolls like you try to exhibit logic only when you get a chance to attack Islam. While anytime when someone names and shames anything related to india, they start getting fits.
So as per this article one govt official contacted NDTV and only gave ONE statement, that too related to Pakistan and bam, NDTV made an exclusive story. How naive!
Wut they didnt tell is how their Goswami type correspondent confronted that official, how many hundreds of questions they asked in a way to associate Pakistan with this event, and after that they could deduce one statement that only said its something similar to Jamaat and ISI had a working relationship.
It ABSOLUTELY doesnt say that the official said they suspect ISI is involved in this but NDTV still made the headline like that. But no, Indian media isnt rubbish 
But why i’m explaining this to you? Your whole purpose here is to find an opportunity to label Islam/Pakistan with wutever bad u can think of, and ofcourse defend India no matter what. Rest of the trolling is like a “business as usual”
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Reform has already started sir! Free flow of information on the internet means mainstream Islam can't go on like it has earlier; Living in it's own bubble, threatening dissidents with death penalty. People will question, people will point out flaws, people will say Quran can inspire to do good and bad, need to tackle the bad parts more honestly.
Yea people like who create accounts on forums for one point agenda: Attack Quran and make it controversial as much as possible.
Rest you have zero contribution to make as it doesnt suit your agenda.
Too bad, wut i know is, Quran is here to stay and will be in the same shape as it is now and as it was years ago. Will you and I be here? Absolutely no.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Millions of Bangladeshis believe in death penalty for those who leave Islam. Millions of Bangladeshis believe adulterers must be stoned.
Muslim Beliefs About Sharia | Pew Research Center
82% want sharia as law of the land, 44% of those want death penalty for leaving Islam, in a population of 160 millions.
For old country, it’s even worse 
84% want sharia as law of the the land, 76% of those want death penalty for leaving Islam, in a population of 180 millions.
Problem is far bigger than these few terrorists. About time we acknowledge it. And about time we acknowledge they get this from mainstream islam. Also, don’t conflate belief with actions. Just because they are not turning belief into actions, doesn’t mean their belief can’t inspire others to act out on it, or that intolerant and hateful belief in itself is unproblematic.
This is a good and healthy discussion, shouldn’t get personal. GS needs discussion. Especially about the most pressing issue for us of muslim background, religious extremism.
Need to keep the good parts, need to be more honest about the bad parts.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
If islam was perfect, muslim world would be flourishing, and you and I would not sit in the west. Saying problems are due to misinterpretations of the words of an all-knowing deity is like admitting that the deity isn’t really all-knowing, because he could not foresee the problems ambigious and conflicting verses would create for his believers.
Time to be honest and acknowledge many verses are creating problems. If Islam is perfect in theory, then it should have something to show for in the real world; looking at the muslim world, that is far from the case. Blaming it all on Americans and foreign intervention is just a cop out. Americans did not teach 100 million Pakistanis that those who leave Islam must be put to death, or that adulterers must be stoned. Mainstream islam did. This barbaric mentality is the problem. And it gets condoned in one form or another all the time by far too many muslims.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
I know the Quran-hating posts of Iqbal Ali likes give you a lot of oxygen as it fulfills the ultimate goal of Islam bashing but i just wish if you have read the tafseer of Quran well enough before deducing the results.
And NO Islam doesnt need reform. The muslims need to be aligned together and have a better understanding of Quran to incorporate it in their lives. So that they can understand how much patience, respect and love is stressed in Islam. How sanctity of a human life is noble regardless of anyone's faith or belief or sexual orientation. And actually more than 95% muslims do understand it. Its just they have to figure out to put a leash on rest of the 5% around to make them understand that Islam doesnt teach to harm anyone.
Millions of Bangladeshis have not engaged in any bad activity on the name of religion for last few decades. Now six people did it and extremist haters like you have jumped the bandwagon of attacking Islam.
As far as rose colored glasses coming off, we can very well see who is removing their pretentious mask here.. oh well!!
Wow.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Not a fan of Indian media. Not a fan of Ornob Goswamy. In fact he is indeed rubish. Especially when dealing with Pakistani guests.
I didn’t know NDTV was Indian.
Was simply responding 5o this specific story with this specific link.
Anyone who disagrees with you I guess is an “Islam hater” who gets “oxygen” to fulfill their ultimate goal of Islam bashing". And a troll.
Triple wow, good sir.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
Must see from 3 min to 4 min 15.sec. Every journalism major please take notes.
Re: Gunmen take hostages in Bangladeshi capital Dhaka
hahahaha if ISI do so than where is Bangla agencies specially Indian agencies…as Bangla is an illegal child of Endia
