Re: Re: Re: Guantanamo Muslim chaplain detained
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by kabir: *
well its too early to call him traitor because he is still not being charged just detained and interogated but incase he was helping the people detained at g bay then he was a true muslim
he should be an inspiration for the people who sell thier souls
[/QUOTE]
If he was helping within his capacity/authority, otherwise he would be considered as spy, traitor etc.
Until proved whether he really committed crime or not, lets not label him anything. But, as per Islamic rules, are you not supposed to follow the law of institution you work for? or do you work against rules and consider it Islamic?
Here is my theory. These two gentlemen (the chaplain and the translator) were just being helpful to the detainees by providing news of their well-being to their families back home. One reason could be that they become friendly to these detainees, being with them for so many months, and were just trying to go beyond the line of duty to comfort their families, that their sons are ok.
And so there was no leakage of secret (secret, in the real sense of the word) information, no affiliation with Al-Qaida ("Has Al Qaida infilterated the US military?" - Time) or plans for committing terror attacks in the US. And hence all the coverage right now is the usual sensationalization by the US media or needless glorification by our Mr Showkot.
It is just two guys trying to be helpful to a bunch of unfortunate prisoners, not realizing that US military is in an ultra-sensitive mode due to the current war on terror, and hence is not cutting any slack.
^ Give me a break!
"two guys trying to be helpful to a bunch of unfortunate prisoners"
The detainees in Cuba have participated in the killing of US soldiers and/or terrorist attacks on Americans. Helping them in any way amounts to aiding an enemy of the very country they are sworn to protect. Painting them as nice guys doesn't alter that fact, if it turns out to be the truth.
Did I say it was the right thing to do? No. Don't put words in my mouth. I am saying, the whole sensational espionage theory circulating in US media, is perhaps over-blown, and definitely premature.
The prisoners in Guantanamo Bay are "captured" from Afghanistan (not necessarily fighting). They are not treated as Prisoners of War. They are given no access to trials, judges, lawyers or jury. They have probably little or no contact with their families. No one really knows what are the charges against them or what does future holds for them. All we hear are general statements from US Administration. May be they are hardened criminals, mercenaries, terrorists, or may be they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. You don't know. I don't know. Unless something is proven in a fair trial, its all conjecture. So lets spare the "participated in the terrorist attacks" pontification.
"You don't know. I don't know. Unless something is proven in a fair trial, its all conjecture"
Oh, OK. That sounds sure sounds like one of Osama's fans. He's possibly an innocent victim too I suppose?
It's interesting that you're telling me to quit "pontificating" when your the one suggesting that these suspected spies were "just trying to go beyond the line of duty to comfort their families".
Give me another break!
I said right from the beginning that all this speculation about whether James Yee is the poster child for an ideal muslim or is an epitome of worst enemy of the state is premature cz we don't know much about why these guys are detained.
But no, some poeple just had to go on and on about their little theories. So I provided one, which basically says that may be this is all storm in a tea-cup. And then you came in with the conjecture that all the prisoners in Guantanamo "participated in the killing of US soldiers and/or terrorist attacks", and calling anything other than that as "Osama fan". Sheesh! One would think it is impossible to talk about any subject in a reasonable manner.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Spock: *
showket, leave aside that particular person for a minute...
what if a muslim guy is trying to help convicted criminals? would you and your HT buddies such as ak47 still say jazakallah to that and praise his efforts to promote islamic brotherhood? Just a yes or a no would do, no HT lectures please.
[/QUOTE]
Personal attacks again i see
So you and secular extreme goons support the americans in there war on muslims.
Is that correct just a yes or no not a lecture please !
So anyone having sympathy for those guys not having access to fair trial would be painted as “Osama’s fan”? 
If you have not read, US has let go many prisoners who were not found associated at all with Taliban or Al-Qaeda yet they were kept for many many months. Still all of the detainees are not guaranteed to have association with Taliban or Al-Qaeda. Go figure.
.
"So anyone having sympathy for those guys not having access to fair trial would be painted as "Osama's fan"?"
No Chang, what I said was Faisal's excuse "You don't know. I don't know. Unless something is proven in a fair trial, its all conjecture" is the same one used by the Osama fans, as in "Show me the proof that he was responsible the 9-11". You know wolfowitz said that another pearl harbor style attack would need to happen, also a thousand jews didn't go to work at the WTC that day... Ask yourself, who benefited?...
Stu.. the assertion that all prisoners in Guantanamo Bay "are terrorists" is as lame as someone saying 4,000 jews in NY had prior knowledge of WTC attacks and so they stayed away. Both are conjecture, both have no feet to stand on.
Osama himself has taken great pride in attacks on US, in his audio-taped messages. Short of a huge conspiracy theory, that is all there is to it. He is not in US custody to stand trial. The prisoners in Guantanamo Bay are. What is stopping US from trying them in a fair court of law? How many months have passed since they were moved there?
Actually the assertion that those terrorists in Guantanamo bay are terrorists is quite an obvious and logical one. The Jew thing is a conspiracy..Theory!
For you its logical and obvious to assume ALL prisoners there are terrorists because thats what you choose to believe. Some of the prisoners may be Taliban fighters, I agree. Not sure about all, cz many prisoners have been released over the last few months; and why would they be released if ALL who were caught are terrorists?
The simple explanation is that US rounded up everyone they caught there and shipped them overseas. There has been no open trial or infact any trial of these people. At this point, therefore, they are "Innocent Until Proven Guilty". Its quite possible that many innocents (relative term) are still there, and will be released, without any trial in the next few weeks/months.
Innocents till proven guilty applies to US citizens only.
^ hahaha.... Don't worry Matsui. We won't hold this against you.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
Personal attacks again i see
So you and secular extreme goons support the americans in there war on muslims.
Is that correct just a yes or no not a lecture please !
[/QUOTE]
ak, how old are you? didnt osama teach you any manners?
Salaams to the muslims and hi to the non-muslims
Channmahi
America is the leader of the so called free world and the dominant ideology which controls international affairs by hook or crook. They have declared a crusade against Islam and muslims by supporting tyranical regimes and invading muslim lands so Allah orders us to defend ourselves within the limits of Islam.
Imdad
The whole world belongs to Allah including america and the white house and muslims are free to travel anywhere they wish, also the dawah is continuing all over the muslim lands as well as those lands where the majority happen to be muslims, please support the cause of Allah so that he supports you and rewards you for your good deeds and dont join and help the enemies of Islam in their crusade against allah and his messanger. The prophet saw said " either speak good or be silent", and who is better in terms of advice, loyalty, allegiance then Allah and his messenger.
Spock
muslims are not allowed to aid criminals in their transgression, the west considers some muslims who fight them as criminals while Islam recognises them as mujahideen. They have their criterias and definitions and we have ours, we are right and they are wrong according to Allah.
Changez_like
Very good question, muslims have to abide by Islam in all circumstances and any law which contradicts Islam we are not allowed to follow, in some jobs its possible to abide by Islam, in others its not, so muslims cannot work in those jobs. The problems muslims have today is that their is no state which rules according to Islam and therefore we muslims face many problems in terms of our day to day activities.
And finally may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon all those who follow the guidence of Allah and speak the word of truth against the injustice of man made ideologies.Ameen
So when all (almost?) is said and done seems like there really is no case against James Yee. Once it was the Jews, then the Communists and now Muslims at the receiving end. So guilty until proven innocent - but if you don’t even know what you are charged with, as in the case of Guantanamo captives, how do you prove your innocence?
"Modern ‘Dreyfus Affair’ is unworthy of America
Hatred of Muslims has become the anti-Semitism of our era.
…
Capt. Yee was charged with spying and thrown into solitary confinement in a naval prison for 2 1/2 months, where he was chained hand and foot.
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The military’s case against him has steadily crumbled. Not a shred of evidence has emerged of spying or foreign contacts.
After espionage charges were dropped, Yee was accused of the minor infraction of mishandling classified documents. But military prosecutors didn’t even know which of the supposedly classified documents Yee had were actually classified. Most were apparently hand-written notes on his religious ministering.
…
The U.S. Army’s former judge advocate general (the most senior military legal officer), John Fugh, called the Yee case “ridiculous” and said it should be speedily ended. Other legal experts and high-ranking officers term the trial a farce and a travesty of justice.
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As a former member of the U.S. Army, I know there is not much real justice in so-called military justice.
…
If Capt. Yee was any religion except Muslim, his prosecution - persecution is a more apt term - would have raised a public outcry. But the Bush administration’s paranoia and relentless anti-Islamic fervour, and the growing hate campaign directed against Muslims by the president’s fundamentalist Christian and neo-conservative allies, has legitimized persecution of Muslim-Americans, who now live in a state of fear that is beginning to resemble the growing terror felt by German Jews in the early 1930s.
The Yee Affair is only one of a large number of cases in which Muslims have been charged by the government with non-existent or wildly exaggerated offences, then forced to admit guilt under threats of life sentences, or even execution.
Capt. Yee courageously refused to be intimidated into confessing to crimes he did not commit. His only serious offence, according to the evidence so far available, was being a caring chaplain in a Devil’s Island created to terrify and punish Muslims. "
http://www.canoe.ca/Columnists/margolis_jan18.html
LOS ANGELES — A U.S. airman and investigator in the Guantanamo espionage case is facing charges including raping and sodomizing children in Okinawa, an Air Force official said Tuesday.
Air Force Sgt Marc Palmosina committed rape and sodomy with children under the age of 12 on four separate occasions at or near the U.S. Kadena Air Base in Okinawa
He is also accused of molesting females under 16 at or near the Kadena base between May 29, 1999 and Oct 1, 2001, and raping and sodomizing children under 16 at or near Vacaville, California between May 29, 1999 and Oct 1, 2003.
Palmosina had taken part in the investigation in the spy case against Senior Airman Al Halabi, who was working as an Arabic translator with suspected al-Qaida and Taliban fighters in a U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.
A civilian attorney for Al Halabi, a Syrian-American accused of carrying maps and documents from the prison, said Palmosina was charged last week.
Palmosina is also charged with mishandling a classified document. (Kyodo News)
Guantanamo case investigator accused of child rape in Okinawa
US military disgraced and proven corrupt why would anyone want them in there country i do not know! Guantanamo, Iraq and Afghanistan the stories coming out just get worse and worse!