Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
Its better to leave the government on its own, and let it face the music in the next elections. If the people consider their performance to be satisfactory they will be voted in otherwise they will be routed. But making them a martyr will basically wipe out all their sins and present them with a lifeline.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
I think situation is soon becoming a bit untenable. And we could see elections in next 4-5 months. Shaheed e Jamhooriyat bannay k khwab zinda ho gaye hayn phir.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
No government can have control over Pakistan armed forces unless they stop corruption, nepotism and intentional mismanagement. If any so-called elected government (be that of PPP. PML or of whomsoever) wants that they would keep doing corruption, nepotism and intentional mismanagement than they should also be ready that over time they would be thrown out of power by military. This would happen regardless of army Generals like that or not, as they would get pushed by lower ranks to do that even if Generals would like to keep away from government.
Reason is simple, that is: Armed forces do not only hold guns but are citizen of the country too. As civilian of the country, they see, feel and also think of what is happening in the country. Due to result of corruption, nepotism and mismanagement, country starts going down the drain and people in armed forces also suffer similar to other civilians. They also have close relatives and friends who they see suffer due to country's situation.
Thus, when people in armed forces see corruption, nepotism and intentional mismanagement in the country, they feel as much angry, frustrated and agitated as any civilian in the country. Having arms they act ... what many civilians in country would have done if they were armed too.
To understand people’s reaction (where people includes people employed in armed forces) we should look at what happened when a brainwashed armed idiot holding gun murdered Salman Taseer just because he was brainwashed that Salman Taseer was talking wrong (according to his perception). Murderer’s action was condemnable still it shows reactions of people holding arms. Such are facts.
Fact does not change that people can react (and react with all their means) when they see something wrong happening in country according to their perception, and if people are armed they also use their arms to punish those who they think are doing wrong. People in armed forces are armed but disciplined, still that does not mean they do not react or would stay quite if they feel that people in power are doing corruption, nepotism and mismanagement when running the country.
Ideally, there should be abrupt actions from individuals in armed forces who start ‘shooting to kill’ people involved in corruption, nepotism and mismanagement (starting from Prime Minister downward). Fortunately, being discipline force they leave such actions on Generals, who looking at level of unease amongst armed forces act (depose corrupt government) when things start going beyond control, but since Generals act leniently (leave these corrupts politicians alive), corrupt political thugs live to bark and see another day.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
Its better to leave the government on its own, and let it face the music in the next elections. If the people consider their performance to be satisfactory they will be voted in otherwise they will be routed. But making them a martyr will basically wipe out all their sins and present them with a lifeline.
Exactly. If we don't like the govt, they can be kicked out.
A far worse option is an Army govt that rules by force, and does not leave.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
Its better to leave the government on its own, and let it face the music in the next elections. If the people consider their performance to be satisfactory they will be voted in otherwise they will be routed. But making them a martyr will basically wipe out all their sins and present them with a lifeline.
You mean there is option in Pakistan that next election would bring honest people in power? Bhai meray, 'Yajuj' aa jaye yea 'Majuj', fate of poor Pakistanis in democracy would be same.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
... Ideally, there should be abrupt actions from individuals in armed forces who start ‘shooting to kill’ people involved in corruption, nepotism and mismanagement (starting from Prime Minister downward). ...
I am waiting for that day when lower ranks in armed forces along with armed civilians start cleansing the country from people involved in corruption, nepotism and intentional mismanagement.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
You mean there is option in Pakistan that next election would bring honest people in power? Bhai meray, 'Yajuj' aa jaye yea 'Majuj', fate of poor Pakistanis in democracy would be same.
I am not saying honest people will come into power, the candidates would be amongst us. Anyways we should develop a habit of letting the governments complete their terms. If they don't perform they will get booted out, with the passage of time the situation will improve.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
I am not saying honest people will come into power, the candidates would be amongst us. Anyways we should develop a habit of letting the governments complete their terms. If they don't perform they will get booted out, with the passage of time the situation will improve.
I do not think that election candidates would be from amongst us and I believe neither you nor anyone in Pakistan thinks so. We all know that most constituencies would have candidates who would inherit those constituencies. Future ministers would rule Pakistan just like Kings rule their subjects.
I also do not think and neither anyone who knows about Pakistan political system, that situation would improve with passage of time and regardless of government completing their terms.
Actually, I believe that next election would bring same government and same party what we have now. Though, it is possible that there might be some other PPP man as Prime Minister instead of Gillani. It is possible that Bilawal may contest next election and could become Pakistan next Prime Minister, youngest ever.
Zardari tenure would end in August 2013 (after next election), but I am sure that he would manage to get re-elected again for next 5 years (ending in August 2018).
On the other hand, even if PPP lose election then also it would not make any difference to country and people, as those who would follow would have another face of same coin.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
Difference between Pakistani political Kings and actual kings:
Pakistani political Kings are worse than actual Kings, as Kings think that the country is their property and subjects their slaves, so they do not harm prosperity of their slaves, neither they intentionally mismanage, loot, plunder and follow scorch earth policy in the country. For them, their prosperity is linked with the prosperity and education of people and prosperity of country.
On the other hand, Pakistani political Kings think that they are King while in power so they exploit their position to extreme while in power, as their power seems time bounded to them. They know that other political kings are waiting in corridor to start their turn of loot and plunder. So, while in power these political Kings follow scorch earth policy of loot, plunder and mismanagement to limit. They do not care about their slaves’ (Pakistanis) prosperity or wellbeing. Actually, they think that if country stays poor and if their slaves (Pakistanis) stay uneducated, deprived and dependent on them then only their rule would survive (and keep surviving).
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
PPP Govt backtracking, issues show cause notice to Defence Secretary for submitting anti-Army/ISI reply to Supreme Court.
**Govt to issue show-cause notice to defence secretary
**ISLAMABAD: The government on Friday has decided to issue show-cause notice to the Secretary of Defence Lt-Gen (retd) Khalid Naeem Lodhi, DawnNews reported.
According to government sources, the decision was taken during a high level meeting at the Presidency.
The notice was to be issued for directly submitting the reply in the Supreme Court on memogate issue without consulting the government.
The sources made it clear that the defence secretary can be sacked if government was not fully satisfied with his reply of the notice.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
PPP Govt backtracking, issues show cause notice to Defence Secretary for submitting anti-Army/ISI reply to Supreme Court.
I believe rules of business say that secretary of the ministry can not submit replies directly to SC without Minister's approval.
can anyone confirm this?
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
Good to know that the Prime minister is satisfied by COAS/ISI Chief’s performance. I am just wondering which country’s COAS/ISI chief (maybe India?) the PM was talking about a couple of days ago (with regards to sheltering Osama Bin Laden)? That also means that it does not matter to the government if they dont have defence sector in their hands (state within a state?), they shouldn’t complain about that then.
**
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani said Monday that he was satisfied with the performance of the Army Chief and General Kayani had not asked for an extension in his tenure.
“The General (Kayani) cannot be removed during wartime that is why the decision to extend his tenure was made” Gilani said.**
**Prime Minister further said that he had pleaded with the Army Chief and DG ISI for their extensions.
“It was foolish to talk about the Army Chief and DG ISI being removed” Gilani said. **
The prime minister added that former ambassador Husain Haqqani had resigned before he had asked for his resignation.
Prime Minister Gilani dispelled speculation of a clash between the government and army.
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
He clarified that he pointed towards Defence Secretary Khalid Naeem Lodhi and not army chief or DG ISI during his speech in National Assembly when he talked about “state within state.”
http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/26/gilani-rebuffs-kayani-pasha-removal-rumours.html
Re: Govt. has no operational control over Army/ISI: Ministry of Defence
What about when he talked about how OBL remain hidden in Abbotabad for six years? Was that also related to the defence secretary? Today he is saying that he is satisfied by the performance of COAS/ISI chief.