Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
why is it muslims make trouble whereever they are? Iraq, philipines, chechnya, and Gujrat?
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Shivangi, look, now you have changed your tone. I repeat, Godhra or no Godhra, no one had any right to kill Muslims in Gujarat.
Our semi-educated media, interested political circles and Islamic press are roaming around the reasons of boogies burnt.
And all of them are blind towards a greater fact that the halted train was surrounded by Muslims. I expect that those people of minority community should have helped the victims; far from it they were busy in stoning the bogies. Many of them were carrying cold arms.
Your excuses…do not generalize anything. Islamic media propagates Islam if any Muslim does something good, why it does not take responsibility or at least express concern for what some Muslims did at Godhra?
Instead of that this press is busy in finding designs behind gossips supported by our semi-educated media and the so-called secular political circles.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Was Laloo Yadav Prasad behind this similar report in July 2002?
http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?art_id=14794899
Godhra bogie was burnt from inside: Report
TIMES NEWS NETWORK WEDNESDAY, JULY 03, 2002 12:05:57 AM ]
AHMEDABAD: The mystery over the burning of the S-6 compartment of Sabarmati Express at Godhra on February 27, which killed 59 passengers and set off an unprecedented spate of communal frenzy all over Gujarat, has turned deeper with the forensic report on the incident discounting the possibility of the mob throwing inflammable liquid from outside and then setting the bogie on fire. **Investigations made by the Ahmedabad-based Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL) have now shown that almost 60 litres of inflammable material was poured from inside the compartment before it was set on fire.
A report by the FSL’s Assistant Director Dr M S Dahiya, which is part of the charge-sheet filed in the Godhra case about a month back, is based on a study of the pattern of the burns in the compartment and a simulated exercise conducted on May 3 to recreate the incident. The report contradicts the view held so far that the mob which attacked the train threw inflammable liquid at the train using buckets and cans from a distance, even while the passengers had shut all the windows and doors of the compartment. To recreate how the crime must have been committed, a train bogie was placed at the same spot. Using a variety of different containers, it was doused with liquid for experimental observation.
The report said the height of the window of the bogie was found to be seven feet. In these circumstances, it was not possible to throw inflammable liquids into the bogie from the outside with the help of a bucket or a jerry-can because by this method most of the liquid fell outside the bogie.** At the spot of the incident, at about a distance of 14 feet, there was a mound of gravel-stones about 3 feet high. It was spread parallel to the bogie for a long distance. The FSL officials, standing on the mound, threw water on the windows of the bogie, of which only about 10 to 15 per cent entered the bogie. The rest fell on the outside. Since, a major portion of the inflammable liquid fell on the tracks and around it, it would have caused damage on the outside of the bogie and under it.
The report says, “after inspecting the bogie and the tracks, it was found that there is no effect of fire below the windows. Taking this fact into account and the burning pattern on the outside of the bogie, the conclusion is that no inflammable liquid was thrown into the bogie from the outside”. It further says, “it also does not look possible that inflammable liquid was thrown in from the doors of the bogie”. As a next step, using a bucket, about 60 litres of water was thrown into the passage of the compartment from one side and then a large part of the bogie was covered. Water thrown like this went only in one direction, no part of it flowed outside from the open doors or in the direction of the latrine. “On the basis of this experimental observation, the conclusion is that standing in the passage of the compartment near seat number 72, using a container with a wide opening, about 60 litres of inflammable liquid has been poured and then immediately a fire has been started in the bogie,” the report says.
The FSL report further says that “it appears that three of the four doors of the compartment were open when it was burning while all the windows were shut. The pattern of burning (allegatoring pattern) shows that the intensity of the heat was four times more towards the eastern side (towards seat no. 72 of the bogies”.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Exactly Reza, there were some people on the train too. How would they stop the train otherwise. They got into the train at the Godhra station, pulled the chain and stopped the train as soon as the train reached the biggest muslim slum in Gujarat along the railway tracks outside Godhra. There was a mob gathered there. Someone from inside poured the inflammable liquid and started the fire and the mob outside started pelting stones as soon as people tried to get out so the people inside were sandwiched. It was a well planned attack.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
http://www.hindu.com/2005/04/16/stories/2005041612541400.htm
**Godhra carnage: bid to hide truth alleged **
Not once, but repeated attempts were made to dissuade the Gujarat Additional Director-General of Police, R. B. Sreekumar, from revealing the truth'' about the Godhra train carnage and the post-Godhra communal riots before the G. T. Nanavati and K. G. Shah Judicial Inquiry Commission. **In his third affidavit filed before the Commission on Wednesday, Mr. Sreekumar revealed that even before the Home Secretary, G. C. Murmu, tutoring’’ him to follow the political line of Chief Minister Narendra Modi on the train carnage by sticking to the pre-planned conspiracy'' theory like some other senior officers, another Home Department official had advised him not to tell the truth.‘’ ** Mr. Sreekumar, who has created a storm in the administration by his allegations against the Chief Minister and some other senior Government and police officials in a petition filed before the Central Administrative Tribunal, produced the transcription of an audio tape revealing what the Under Secretary in the Home Department, Dinesh Kapadia, advised him on August 21 last, 10 days before he was to appear before the Nanavati-Shah commission for cross-examination on his original affidavit filed in 2002.
Mr. Kapadia had walked into Mr. Sreekumar’s office and advised him to reply all the inconvenient questions with a firm I don't know'' or give only convenient answers in tune with the Modi Government's political line. On Mr. Sreekumar's reply that he was under oath of the Constitution’’ and could not tell lies to a judicial body appointed to bring out the truth, Mr. Kapadia was quoted as saying that no purpose will be served by telling the truth to the Commission. As it is, its recommendations will not be accepted by the government,'' the affidavit said. Mr. Kapadia also went to the extent of describing the commission as a mere paper tiger’’ as most commissions were indicating the kind of importance the State Government was attaching to the outcome of the inquiry by the commission appointed by it in April 2002.
After Mr. Kapadia failed to persuade Mr. Sreekumar to follow the Government line, he was summoned by the Secretary (Law and Order), G. C. Murmu, a 1986 batch IAS officer compared to his being a 1971 IPS officer, in his office to ‘‘tutor’’ him. The government pleader before the commission, Arvind Pandya, was also present. Mr. Pandya was told to put to him the possible questions that could come from the advocate for the riot victims, Mukul Sinha, and Mr. Murmu told Mr. Sreekumar what answers he was required to give.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Shivangi, I think this Reaza has emptied his stock of links and we can talk.
- There was a mob stoning at the train and fire took place, as a result of fire some 59 people were burnt to death. By next day some news papers took it for granted that inflammable items were poured into the bogies via windows. No one is hanging over this report except our semi-educated press, Lalu corridors or Islamic media.
One thing is sure that petrol and not kerosene was used in inflaming the bogies; otherwise the fire could not spread in just 5 or 6 minutes.
It is up to you to study and decide how this petrol reached into the bogies? Only a non-professional will pour petrol into the bogie via window.
Facts are already there how this petrol was poured on the passengers, but it does not suit our semi-educated media and the Islamic press.
Once petrol was used, it could not be an accident.
- Did the passengers of this train misbehave with co-passengers or with the vendors on the stations from Ayodhya to Godhra? There is no direct reporting of the events; it is reported as it was said, or somebody told to some one or reports appeared in some UP newspapers (which one?)….in one news-paper I have read that Shabana Azmi confirmed it…..now you tell me how Shabana can be an evidence of something happened at station platforms…..that is another thing that Shanbana will never know that her name was used to confirm a lie.
Now it is up to you to analyze rationally what actually happened at Godhra!
I am sure that Nanawati commission report will never be made public. Our Govts cannot afford to offend Muslims./
(Ps, I again repeat that Godhra or no Godhra, no one had right to kill Muslims in Gujarat.)
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
2. Mystery of the Fire
2.1. A very significant fact is that coach S-6 was the only one that got burnt. The fire did not even spread to the other coaches. It is also not clear whether the train was stopped because of the fire in the coach or the coach was set on fire after the train stopped. If it was the latter, why was the train stopped at all? It is reasonable to presume that because of the fire in the coach, someone must have pulled the chain and the train was stopped by the engine driver.
2.2. As the train left Godhra station, all the windows and doors of Coach S-6 were all closed. Since there was stone throwing on the train, it is reasonable to presume that similar was the situation in all the other coaches. In other words, as the train stopped, nobody from outside was in a position to identify any particular person in any particular coach, so as to target any particular persons. If kar sevaks were the target, they were overwhelmingly present in the entire train and the whole train could have been set on fire. The fact that the fire did not even spread to the remaining coaches, is a clear indication that the fire originated in that compartment itself. That also explains why only persons in that coach died. In all probability, as the fire broke out, there was extreme panic and, the compartment being over-packed, many of the able-bodied persons managed to escape through the vestibules to the other coaches, leaving mostly women and children behind, who must have succumbed to the smoke and suffocation and fallen down in a pile, one over the other. The evidence also suggests that the passengers had stacked their belongings against the doors and it was just not possible for anyone to escape from or enter the coach.
2.3. On 7-5-2002, we inspected the coach and the site where it was burnt. The site where the train stopped is an elevated bund. From the ground level, the height of the bund could be about 12-15 feet and it is a slope. At the top, there is hardly enough space for 2,000 persons to assemble on either side of the track. Assuming that so many had gathered at that spot, the crowd would be spread over a much larger area than the stretch of coach S-6. This is only to indicate that if the government version is true, the other coaches would have been as easy a target as Coach S-6. Again, if one takes into account the height of the bund and the height of the train, and if fire-balls were to be thrown at the train, the outside of the coach should have shown signs of being charred. But we found that there were no such marks below the windows; the charred marks were to be seen only around the windows and above that height. This is a clear indication that the fire started inside the coach and the flames leaping out of the windows singed the outside of the compartment, above window level. Therefore, even to the naked eye, it was clear that the fire was from within and not from outside.
2.4. Our own observations were subsequently confirmed by the reports of the Forensic Science Laboratory. Among its other findings, the relevant section of the Forensic Science Laboratory (State of Gujarat, New Mental Corner, Ahmedabad – 16, Spot Investigation Report No.2 regarding CR No. 9/2002, Godhra Railway Police Station) filed by Dr. MS Dahiya, assistant director, states:
2.4.1. "It was found that the height of the window of the coach was around 7 ft. from the ground at the place. Under this circumstance, it was not possible to throw any inflammable fluid inside from outside the coach from any bucket or carboy, because by doing this, most of the fluid was getting thrown out side. At the place of the incidents, there was one heap of grit, of three feet height at a distance of around 14-ft,. in the southern side of the coach. Water was thrown on the windows of the coach with the help of bucket standing on the top of the said heap, in that case only about 10 to 15% of the water went inside and the rest of the quantity was spilled outside itself. Thus, if the inflammable fluid is thrown from outside, then a major part of it would fall around the track outside and catch fire and cause damage to the outer part of bottom side of the coach. But after examination of the coach and the track, no effect was found of the fire on bottom side below the windows of the coach. By taking into consideration this fact, and also the burning pattern of the outer side of the coach, a conclusion can be drawn that no inflammable fluid had been thrown inside from outside the coach."
2.4.2. “There also appears to be no possibility that any inflammable liquid was thrown through the door of the bogie.”
2.4.3. “By standing in the passage between the compartment of the bogie and the northern side door of the eastern side of the bogie, water was poured towards the western side from a container with a wide mouth like a bucket; in that case most part of the bogie was covered with 60 liters of water. By pouring the water in this manner, the water went only towards the West and no part of it came out of the door, nor did it go towards the latrine side.”
2.4.4. “On the basis of the above experimental demonstration, such a conclusion can be drawn that 60 liters of inflammable liquid was poured towards the western side by using a wide mouthed container by standing on the passage between the northern side door of the eastern side of the S-6 coach and the compartment of seat No. 72 and coach was set on fire immediately thereafter. If the period after the train had started from Godhra Railway Station, intensity of fire, the degree of burn of the objects that were inside the bogie etc. are taken into account, it can also be concluded that a large quantity (around 60 liters) of highly inflammable fluid was used to set the aforesaid fire and that the fire had spread very rapidly.”
2.4.5. By observing the condition of the frames of the windows of the coach, it appears that all the windows of the coach were closed during the time of the fire."
2.4.6. Thus, it is clear that the fire came from inside. We have seen the inner side of the coach. The intensity of the fire was such that even the iron rods, the seats, the fans were all burnt to such an extent that we found them twisted and molten out of shape. We also found rice and wheat partly burnt and scattered all across the floor of compartment S-6. Some of the witnesses had stated that kar sevaks had stoves in the train, but we did not find them in the coach. The FSLR shows that for such an intensity of fire, 60 litres of inflammable liquid had to be poured into the coach, “by using a wide mouthed container”. The question is, where is this container? There is no evidence of anyone carrying 60 litres of inflammable liquid. At what point of time was this taken inside the coach, or into the passage? Who was travelling in the train? If such a large number of kar sevaks, armed with trishuls and in such an aggressive mood, were inside the train, how could Ghanchi Muslims enter the train? And how could they have carried so much petrol openly, or even clandestinely, for that would have been found out in no time. So the mystery of the fire remains, the only thing certain being the fact that it came from within.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Reza, if it is a link war, I can provide here thousands of links which day and night expose the real nature of your community and its involvement in Godhra carnage, but I find no reason to compete to your cheapness..
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
what happened in gujrat was very very cruel. If Muslims attacked the train it was bad but that is no excuse for what was done to them afterwards. but if it was an accident from inside then we should stop blaming and giving these pakistanis an excuse against us. They are hardly angels look what they did in bungladesh.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
LOL oh yea we killed like 3 million people in bungla right? and raped 2 million women? please update me on the latest "statistics"
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
I think Gupta is refering to the defeat Pakistan handed out to Bangladesh in Cricket. At that time the only criket team they could beat 
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
oh yea. that was a slaughter.
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
**In his third affidavit filed before the Commission on Wednesday, Mr. Sreekumar revealed that even before the Home Secretary, G. C. Murmu, tutoring'' him to follow the political line of Chief Minister Narendra Modi on the train carnage by sticking to thepre-planned conspiracy'' theory like some other senior officers, another Home Department official had advised him ``not to tell the truth.'' **
Re: government authorised the killing of Gujrati Muslims
Reza, one link is still missing....you have to prove that Godhra is 100% Hindu populated area.