I hate British ppl…
A statment i often find in my mind when i read the IndoPak subcontinent’s history …
Is that a healthy attitude …?
They stole all the knowledge from our ancestors,
burned our books,
stole our priceless possesions that they proudly now display as their own now…
gave birth to African slavery …
and this list continues
is it just me ?
[This message has been edited by nadia21 (edited October 04, 1999).]
Nadia
Nice thread – but I’m transferring it to the Arts and Culture forum, let’s continue there
Saba
Are you really nadia 21 as i know!? Or are you using my dear friend's nickname and pretend as being her? I feel that you are not the one who live in Australia? If so
where did you meet me first time and what kind of suggestion did you make for me (advices at that forums).
thanks
Shamas do u find my post disturbing ?
kher nyways i would really like to have some input on this cause i cringe at the very thought of what we were robbed off .....
ok so it was due to the lifestyle of the late mughals which enabled the british to canivingly make their way into the "Sonay ki chiria" but really what right did they have to do so.....
plus if i now would like to claim their apology for all the distress they caused and also claim back the pride of the indopak subcontinent would i be doing something wrong ??
i mean look at the very crown the Queen wears ....the diamond Kohinoor was snatched from the mughals .......so why does she wear it ??as somekinda victory price to show the world ......
??
u can see hear i am really really confused as to why we are fighting over the Kashmir when we should be unitedly demanding British's apology ??
or again is my mind playing tricks on me ??
btw shamas when did we meet ??KFC....?
suggestions.....?hain ...?
Nadia21
I wouldn’t say that we should hate British, Indians or Sikhs, but we should remember what our ancestors went through. Again not to have a reason for being bitter, but to understand what they did wrong since they were salves for centuries, and what they did right to get their azadi back.
ok so it was due to the lifestyle of the late mughals which enabled the British to canivingly make their way into the “Sonay ki chiria” but really what right did they have to do so
Hmmm For a long time, I too believed that British-raj started just after the Mughals, but you see, Sikhs took over after Mughals. So it must have been the Sikh lifestyle! So the next question is howcome Sikhs won over Mughals? Well That was due to the Mughal lifestyle. 
u can see hear i am really really confused as to why we are fighting over the Kashmir when we should be unitedly demanding British’s apology ??
Are you questioning about why Pak and India can’t work on an issue together (i.g. demanding an apology)? Basically because these two nations can’t trust each other – Why not? Well that’s kinda lamba question.
Btw. what do we need empty words for? What difference would that make? Our ancestor didn’t fight against the British-raj from the begging, they trusted British more then Hindus.
If we ever got ‘Kohenoor’ back, Pak and India will probably start fighting over that
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
As for Kashmir, that’s a different problem…
:)Saba
[This message has been edited by sabah (edited October 04, 1999).]
It is interesting attitude vis a vis Indians. Pakistanis declare themselves simultaneous a victim and a victor. 'remember what our ancestors went through.' But all the same they do not stop boasting how Muslims coquered India and broke idols (so who was victim?) and brought civilization (?). The examples of civilization are Taj Mahal and Qutub Minar. I have never heard anyone wondering why such a thing was not built in Arab land from where the civilization was imported. (It is different matter that Pakistanis hate Arabs too. :)) So all non muslim rulers are by definition unfair and all muslim rulers have by definition been great one. While they complain against Sikhs, they never wonder what Sikhs went through. The way Sikh Gurus were buthered in times of Aurangzeb, they are unaware of, or probably proud of. Again they assume Indian Muslims kinda molnolithic entity. I wonder if Muslim butcher in my village and his forefathers ever cared who the king was.
Actually all Indians did fight against British in 1857 mutiny or war of independence, whatever u call it. Nanasaheb Peshawa and Bahadurshah Jafar plotted and fought together. Even in khilafat movement, they fought together. The communal riots in India is a colonial invention. Before that there were wars and armies killed each other. However, people of different religion did not kill each other on their own. Except in Aurangzeb and few other fantic rulers rule, Muslim rulers generally were happy to collect taxes and did not care the religion of those who paid money (It was basically Aurangzeb rule that brought in Shivaji and Sikhs in rebellion). In fact though India will not dare to ban cow slaughter, Akbar banned cow slaughter to honor sentiments of Hindus. So history is more complex than black and white picture that is often painted.
i mean look at the very crown the Queen wears ....the diamond Kohinoor was snatched from the mughals .......so why does she wear it ??as somekinda victory price to show the world ......??<<<
Nadia, I don't think British snatched Kohinoor from Mughals as you said. Kohinoor was in possession of Afghans after mughals and then taken by Sikh maharaja Ranjit Singh from Afghans for exchange of some Afghan land . Last Sikh maharaja was Dalip Singh(youngest son of Ranjit Singh) who was the Maharja at the time Anglo-Sikh wars in 1849 and was prisoned from Lahore fort along with her mother Rani JindaN and taken to London. That Kohinoor heera was in the possession of mahraja Dalip Singh at that time and was taken by Queen from her personally.
Another interesting aspect is that none of the family members from Maharaja Ranjit Singh survived. All his sons(5-6) were killed, only Dalip survived grew up in London in house prison and married a gori who had 2 daughters, and 1 son. Son(Victor Dalip Singh) died too later on. One of the daughters (I think named Barbara Dalip Singh) adopted some boy from Punjab, who was related to Ranjit Singh's gharana. But Interestingly story did not stop there that boy is an old man now in his 60s and have lawsuit going on in British court on the ownership of Kohinoor diamond as he claims to be the sole legal owner who survived in the family(althoguh adopted).
CM
oh no
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
guyzzzzzz
ok ok so not hating anyone …
however hmmmmmmm
hmmmmmmm
uff
ok
kher
done
ok finally :)
your input points to the fact that i have been reading history one sided ...
so can anyone point me to good unbiased history books....plzzzzzzzzzz
Nadia21
‘The making of Pakistan’ by K.K. Aziz is pretty good. There are many good books, ziyzdah tar Urdu meiN, and eng. ke mujhe naam yaad nahiN
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
Chann jee
Interesting details
ZZ
Aap ki post ka jawab insha allah kal
[This message has been edited by sabah (edited October 05, 1999).]
well nadia, i’ll recommend western books to begin. one source online is federal library of congress http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/intoc.html There are other western authors too. romila thapar has an interesting account of Indian history from marxist perspective. there is one more book from a muslim historian of delhi which i forgot name of.
But in general, western authors are better since they are not emotional and more objective.
Thanks Sabah and ZZ
I will try to find that one online ...
btw is it true that some of the mughal paintaings are related to sex ?
one of my friend stated that and me was like "REAllY?"
ZZ
So all non-Muslim rulers are by definition unfair and all Muslim rulers have by definition been great one.
No, Every Indian ruler made some mistakes, and all Indians paid for them for centuries.. While they complain against Sikhs, they never wonder what Sikhs went through
Who are ’they’, Us Muslims, or are you talking to me? Cus I wasn’t blaming Sikhs that was just a detail.
And I said ’our ancestors didn’t fight against British raj from the beginning’ never said never. Yes Gandhi jee did support Khalifat movement, hence the victory of the Khalifat agitation.
However the birth of a Muslim national feeling was because Muslims didn’t trust Hindus, which later was the base for the independence fight, along with other realizations
:)