Brenda- just because you view your own marriage as a failure (you've mentioned it before), that doesn't give you license to generalize. Most women here in the US would very much disagree with your whining viewpoint of their stature in society.
-Stu
"Be a little 'gay' & a little more interesting for him".
My my how things have changed between 1955 and 2002!!!!
[quote]
Originally posted by Stu:
**Brenda- just because you view your own marriage as a failure (you've mentioned it before), that doesn't give you license to generalize. Most women here in the US would very much disagree with your whining viewpoint of their stature in society.
-Stu
**
[/quote]
Stu, you do not know what most women in the US think anymore than I do. However I have certainly heared a lot of women say all of the things I did and more. I could not possibly write some of the things I have heared women say when there are no men present.
Marriage has nothing to do with what I said. The same things apply to single women as well. In a sense you are proving my point. That every aspect of a woman's life is in some way tied to a man.
Perhaps in a hundred years, women will have gained equal rights with men, but it just hasn't happened yet. I guess you have never heared of expressions like the glass ceiling? You have never heared anyone say that women have to work twice as hard to get half the pay? You aren't aware that there are far fewer women CEOs and politicians. You don't see a lot more women, still staying home with the kids, than men. You have never heared of divorce cases where women get the short end of the stick, because they have less money. You are not aware of the increased cases of domestic abuse against women in the US. You are not aware of the way women are harrased in the work place.
If you live in a place where women truly have equal rights with men, please tell me where this wonderful place is, as I would like to live there too. I assume that you are also American, so please which one of the 50 states it is.
Now to why my marriage failed. That is very simple. My husband does not believe in God in any shape form or fashion, and I most certainly do. I should have known better from the start, and I admit that the problems I had with him were of my own making. All of my actions were guided by this believe, and his actions were guided by the what is best for me point of view.
More to the point, I disagree with you, I have the right to say anything I want to. It is called freedom of speech.
You are of course intitled to your opinion, just don't expect me to agree with you.
Also after giving this more thought, why the angry response, my thoughts on this subject were not meant to be a personal attack on you. I never said that you personaly didn't think women were equal to men. Since I don't know you, I have no idea what you think about this or any other issue. Perhaps things are more liberaly on the west coast, than they are here in the east, but here in the southeast, things just haven't changed that much. The good 'ole boys still run most things.
Brenda
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!!!
[This message has been edited by bcsm57 (edited April 30, 2002).]
nice thing captain…
i always knew u must be taking lessons from somewhere…
brenda, i agree with you every point of the way
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i had to do research abt the subject concerning women in america, and its absolutely true the way they are degraded in the workplaces esp. the pay and workload, they are NOT seen as individuals or equals thats for sure!
aajkal ki biviyan. toba toba.
Discount and/or tone down the qualities written a wee bit and we have a ready-made good wife.
Good stuff Leez
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, thanks for reminding us
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Kambakht Ishq!
Thanks!!!
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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hula.gif
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!!!
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janey ye mard kab sudareian gaye.
!ALAAH SAAB DECH RAJA HAI!
Damn that is nothing. Me and a friend were at a UN conference, and were checking out the NGO papers. On the table there was 1 called the “United Nations Aim to place women in their right full positions: The Kitchen”. It was a freaking 3 page resolution. It was hilarious. I will see if i still have it. If i do i will scan it in. But all you guppie ladies can learn something from that article. So hop to it!
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I’m just a freedom fighter
No remorse
Raging on in holy war
Soon there’ll come a day
When you’re face to face with me
CM, you send that article in and ill tell you what the ‘ladies’ here will do…
(probably pitch in for a hacker track you down and make you live the rest of your life in misery-even at UN conferences)
Women do not have to be in the kitchen
NECESARRILY, for gods sake, thats a
completely hmm…caveman is the only word that comes to mind…neanderthaal…
a guy once told me that the role of women and the only thing they were good at was being babymaking machines! im warning you male guppies…never say that to a woman…even if shes blonde…redhead…brunette…etc.. the results are NOT pleasant (never mind the tongue lashing you’ll recieve )
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[This message has been edited by Xara (edited May 02, 2002).]
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But our faith, which is our reality teaches us differently… or are we guided by cultural values. We, the followers of a professed faith - Islam, tend to flaunt the values of that faith without first showing ourselves as a model.
There are others, educated, who I know and who practice these aforementioned traits or, rather, force, their wifes, that are women that they own, under the guise of having married them in Islam, to follow. Some of these “pieces of property” are not even allowed to pickup the phone, look out the window, go out of the house, open the door… I am not talking about Pakistan. I am talking about doctors, engineers, professionals, etc. in the West
It seems that more we learn, or become Muslims, further backward we actually slide. Much of that comes from our ingrained understanding, belief, and learning, of what homelife is, having grown up in the “old world” where, cultrully, wifes are made to exist in a certain life-style.
Within the context of Pakistan and other Islamic countries (not discounting all Asia and Africa - but my point is within the context of Islamic countries), women are “traditionally” expected to behave in a certain manner. Over the centuries those expectations have become the norm. Islam had come and introduced a better way, as is claimed, to deal with and treat women. It liberated women. It lifted much of what is listed in the article above. Islam not only negated lot of old behaviors but also put down guidelines by which we are told to stay within ceratin boundaries of the game.
All this doesn’t mean that our societies are beyond hope and women are downright degraded. No, far from it. From what I have seen from afar, Pakistan can lead the Islamic world in showcasing it’s existing laws and treatment of women. I understand the shortcomings but just see the positive for a while.
But having said all this, as the article shows, the behaviors listed are not confined to certain countries, people, cultures, etc. They are connected with our sense of what and what we are in the physical sense. For as long as the sanf-e-nazuk remains a weaker sex, in terms of rights, this situation will not change regardless of how much Islam we are taught and we believe in.
Allah has put heaven under the feet of the mother, a women. Man has done one better then Allah… he has put the woman under his foot.
I wonder who is greater: Allah or Man? But then has anyone seen Allah around?
I get really really ticked with I am visited by the Islamic bigots from the local mosques. Damn fools play stupid and bunch of nuts when I ask them a few of the questions that I have as a Muslim having grown up and married in the U.S. There are some things I don’t understand for which, for the life of me, they “educated” ignorants don’t stand up and fight for.
I hope to teach my kids what is right and wrong and not what they learn by some idiot in the mosque or the Quranic school. I have taught my daughter that if she is ever in an overly, physical or psychologically, abusive situation after getting married, she must take matters in her own hands. I will give her the tools to do that… those I will leave that to your imagination. The last option is always open… but within Islamic guidelines. But if the situation becomes physical… that it does, regardless of faith or culture, she “will” have the upper hand. I promise.
[This message has been edited by jannu (edited May 02, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by jannu (edited May 02, 2002).]
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thankyou for sharing that i guess i cant put it in words without having the tendency to offend some1
Xara, most of what heppends to women in our society, especially in the wetern coutries, happens only because women put a lower value on their own lives. They make themselves less valuable to the home. They are willing to make a greater share of the sacrifice to gain an extra share of the sense of worth, protection, love, etc. If they were to understand, within our own frame of belief, Islam more and apply the values of that system to their lives… life becomes nothing but heaven. Rest is the daily grind and result of our own perseverences.
Well, this is my belief. Saddly, we don’t marry wives. Far too many of us, males, marry maids… chaT bhi apni, paT bhi apni. PaaNchoN uNgliaN ghee meiN aur sar kaRhaee meiN. I know a doctor here like this. I know many others of lessor professions like these… a funny thing is that all these biggots are big in the local mosques. I don’t think I have the spit to waste on the faces of these maggots… who are also the role models for others.
Angry? Yes!
I think I have said my peace in this thread.
[This message has been edited by jannu (edited May 05, 2002).]
hmm s’pose so
Well the cartoon is ancient…and most women will laugh at it..
a woman will do most of these things whether there is a man involved or not when comes to cleaning a home
and a woman will greet her husband in such manner most times…
But what disturbs me is that it says his topics of conversation are more important than yours… how lame
my version of what the author was really wanting…
http://www.gupistan.com/gallery/1/housewifenv.jpg
[This message has been edited by chris_wazir (edited May 05, 2002).]