People...gold is not not the only means of giving your daughter financial security! A family friend made a down-payment on a condo for their daughter and gave her less gold and joras! That's an investment into her furture and it won't be stuffed in a locker. My own cousin opted for a piece of real-estate over gold! I'm not joking...this was 2-3 years ago. And a year later when her brother got married and her mom and dad wanted to give her a gift (gold set or what not) she opted for a car instead because her husband couldn't afford to buy one. And people were like ohhh...that's all they gave her...one set and 8 choorian..and I was like...hellooo...she chose what she needed not what the world expected her to get based on her dad's wealth!
The point is that YP is not saying that having gold is bad...it's more like you shouldn't feel that you HAVE to HAVE IT even though you can't afford it. I understand that it's a tradition and it's nice to have and pass down but when gold price is at a all time high and inflation is countries like Pakistan is increasing by the minute...and your disposible income is too high...money should be spent on things that are more essential...IMO!
No one was saying that it is the ONLY way to give your daughter financial security. HOWEVER, it is a way and that is where the tradition stemmed from. that was the point. that most traditions are enriched in meaning and worldviews of a culture rather than mere "saving faces".
I would have to disagree that this is where the tradition stems from because the Holy Prophet p.b.u.h. initiated the inheritance of welath for females as a means of financial security and prior to that, there was no such thing as providing any sort of financial security for women. Gold existed prior to the time of the Holy Prophet p.b.u.h. Lets keep in mind that gold had much less value at that time.
All I;m going to say is that If giving gold is a tradition that enables women to feel financially secure at the expense of putting her family in financial instability (debt)...then this tradition..IMO...is outdated and no longer beneficial as originally intended. For people who can still afford to wera gold...should do so. People who cannot...should not put themselves in debt TRYING to do so.
I would have to disagree that this is where the tradition stems from because the Holy Prophet p.b.u.h. initiated the inheritance of welath for females as a means of financial security and prior to that, there was no such thing as providing any sort of financial security for women. Gold existed prior to the time of the Holy Prophet p.b.u.h. Lets keep in mind that gold had much less value at that time.
All I;m going to say is that If giving gold is a tradition that enables women to feel financially secure at the expense of putting her family in financial instability (debt)...then this tradition..IMO...is outdated and no longer beneficial as originally intended. For people who can still afford to wera gold...should do so. People who cannot...should not put themselves in debt TRYING to do so.
the question was what the tradition entails, the meaning of the tradition. so whereever it stemmed from it is enriched in meaning, symbolism, and it is not just to save face.
of course there are situation dependant reasons to NOT do it and that is perfectly fine to. but to question its meanings and devalue them is wrong.
To the original poster: I wore artifical sets on both days and instead of getting one huge set, got smaller sets like khawateen. I get good use out of them this way and can wear them to parties without feeling overdressed. I would have never worn my big set lso often as i did my smaller ones.
yp- Your line of thinking is quite culturally insensitive and devalues the traditions cultures are enriched in. The wearing/giving of gold stemmed from the idea of ensuring ones daughters financial security. For, even if she did not work, she would know that she has something to fall back on for her family or herself in the future.
To make statements (broad, sweeping ones at that) is basically saying that the worldview of pakistanis is wrong, and the worldview of the outsider is right. That is a very closed way of looking at things and will get us nowhere.
PF:
I fail to see how your point even remotely justifies my ideals. If you had read my post with an open mind, you would clearly see my point was not to criticize the importance of gold in terms of financial security for uneducated daughters. My point was to criticize the ideals that "just" so that other people can view you as richer, "barray loag" that people who "cannot" afford gold, go into debt trying to purchase it. As I mentioned, if you can afford it without financially harming yourself, go for it. You obviously missed that part.
Naqsa clarified my point further. "the worldview of the outsider"? I am not the outsider my lady. I have lived, breathed Pakistan and numerous cultures around the world. I take pride in our culture in all its glory but I also voice the things that are clearly wrong with it.
SGC:
Yes, you make excellent points about uneducated families. Its true. Also, you repeated my point in your last paragraph. So good -- we're in agreement that its the mentality that needs to change.
I did not criticize families who want gold for their daughters' financial stability and I never will. This is all the security these women have. So lets not put words in my mouth.
I already talked to my MIL about not buying gold or anything that I will not use in the future. We agreed that she would only hand me down her heirlooms. The $ she was going to spend on gold/jewelry she will give us to put a down payment on a house or something similar.
For everyone else:
Criticizing uneducated families who buy gold for security? Did I say that? I don't recall having said that. Please lets not put words in my mouth my sweets.
Excellent! Very well put naqsa. PF, you should really try and understand people here are not criticizing their own culture so no need to get defensive. Clearly, naqsa has her facts straight.
:k:
the question was what the tradition entails, the meaning of the tradition. so whereever it stemmed from it is enriched in meaning, symbolism, and it is not** just** to save face.
of course there are situation dependant reasons to NOT do it and that is perfectly fine to. but to question its meanings and devalue them is wrong.
Since it's not "just" to save face than clearly, there's another side to it? Yes?
That's the side I am discussing.
You talk about tradition. There are more traditions in Pakistan than you and I can count. Each province, city, village, town has traditions that are enriched by the specific cultures of the province. When I was visiting the provinces for research, I almost got cultural shocks at how different the North was from the South and West for east. Nonetheless, they were beautiful. Just how we can appreciate cultures, we should have the eye to see the discretions in them. Clearly, no culture is perfect.
The only constant tradition in the world is change.
Pakfairy is just being defensive for some insecurity she can’t handle. Yourpresident wasn’t even talking about the issue she decided to drag into the discussion. By the way NAQSA, good answer!:k:
I think there are many reasons why parents WANT to give their daughters gold. I hear so many families literally saving money since their daughters' birth to make them a nice gold set for their shaadi. Besides financial security and all, there are two main reasons why every parent wishes to give gold sets- 1. it's as significant as wearing something like red on your shaadi. just like wearing red/maroon and applying mehndi, etc go hand in hand with getting married, so does gold. it's a big day for you, you're never going to have another occasion where family will give you gold so that's why they do it. and 2. it's something you have in order to pass onto your children, their spouses or your grandchildren.
i was entirely against wearing anything gold on my nikkah (even had a thread here about it) but due to my inlaws' requests, i had to wear the gold set they ordered. they were nice enough to let me add beads, etc to match my outfit though. out of all the gold i have received over the years, there are only these kangans that i wear now after getting married. but even though, i dont like gold, i can't explain how it felt when my husband's dadi passed on her set to me on our nikkah that she had received from her husband on her first birthday post shaadi. being the oldest bahu, i will also be inheriting her shaadi sets on my rukhsati and not that im gonna be able to wear it all the time, but it's just a very overwhelming feeling when the elders pass something to you that they have treasured since so many years. that's why now i also want to have gold sets so someday my daughters and bahus and grandkids can feel how i did upon receiving them.
but this doesn't mean my parents have to take out loans or go in debt to provide me with all the gold just so i can keep up the customs or pass them onto my kids later. i agree with YP that chaadar dekh kar paaon phelana chahiye. yes they are financial security and all that but does it make sense that you're losing your own financial security by going 7-8k in debt? just don't over do it. i just hate the whole part about how inlaws tend to look down upon their bahus if they don't bring enough gold or jahez with them. it's sad really whether it's happening in the lower class families or the elite.
I know a family that went into debt of a total of 30 lakhs. The father insisted that they must because “loag kiya kahain gain?”. The younger daughter still needed to be married and an excellent proposal came for her, they agreed but the guy’s side insisted to have the wedding right away. Now the girl’s side is stuck since they are already in debt. The mother of the girl had to secretly ask the older daughter for some of the gold back, without letting her in-laws knowing, so the younger daughter can be given some.
PS: shay, I love the idea of precious heirlooms. My grandma asked me which set of karray I want as she wants to pass them down. I have 2 cousins but since I will be the first one to get married, she asked for my choice. I didn’t even look at the karray, I just said, whichever ones you have worn and cherished the most.
I know what you mean about the indescribable feeling of being passed an heirloom down to.
^ uve made some very good points YP!
even though i had asked for nothing in gold.. because i didnt want to have to pay zakat, my mom handed my down pretty much everything she got on her wedding day. She got them all polished again, and added beads and stones so that they cud match my jahez k jore etc.. and i absolutely adore these things.. hopefully if i ever have a daughter, ill be able to pass everything down to her. :)
I did not criticize families who want gold for their daughters' financial stability and I never will. This is all the security these women have. So lets not put words in my mouth.
i don't believe i was putting words in your mouth... i simply pointed out a different angle that you had not mentioned in your initial post.
Sharkman, please don't get personal about PF... we're discussing things generally here, lets try and keep it to that level please before this thread disintegrates into a fight.
on a side note.. ppl that are saying they dont want gold cuz they dont want to pay zakat.. how bout u guys be happy that god put u in the position to be ABLE to PAY zakat, rather than in theg group of ppl that TAKE zakat :)
allah her larki ko uskay naseeb se detha hai.. if ure getting gold at your wedding, appreciate it as a sign from god that you were lucky enuff to get something so worthy, in ure naseeb :)
let there be other reasons for not wanting to wear gold, but to say i dont buy gold cuz i dont want to pay zakat, thats very disturbing and almost nashukri. im not saying just cuz u can afford it, go buy hoardes of gold and load up that bank locker with it... but to not buy it at ALL... tsk tsk
I've told my parents I don't want any gold, I simply don't like gold, my inlaws gave me gold which they forced me to wear on the nikkah, even than I had a choice so chose the smallest jewellery set, with minimum gold.
i suppose its personal preference
that style of gold chain, almost like the metal they used for armour in the old days, seems to be really in these days. i've seen it in person on an artificial set and it was really lovely.
Yaar I m having my reception in Karachi and very confused if I should wear gold or artificial. I got a nice gold set for the wedding but everyone in Karachi is asking me not to wear it b/c of the fear of being robbed. Is the situation really that bad? If I should wear artificial let me know some nice shops in Karachi......
I don't think you will find an artificial set that will make you as happy as your gold set. Just say Bismilah and wear it!
My parent's just went to KHI to attend a wedding and they said anytime the bride or groom were traveling there were a procession of cars before and after them. There were also tons of people guarding their entrance, etc.
I haven't heard of any horror stories about brides being robbed. Inshallah, you will be okay!
If a theif spots you and wants to rob you they will do it anyway, they will not stop to think 'is it artificial or not?', they will just do it, so you may aswell just wear your gold set. You want to look back at your pictures and be happy, not think, 'oh if only i wore my gold set'.
I would be careful but Im saying this because Ive been hearing the same stories you have. My valima will be in Pak and most likely Ill be wearing a fake set that day...but it better be as close to the real as humanly possible!
My sis got a lot of jewelry from her inlaws but it didnt match her valima outfit well. Her saas did all the shopping and she is quite old and was alone arranging it all. We didnt realize how off it was until a few days before the valima. It was alright, we went out and bought a gold plated set that worked amazingly well with her valima outfit and no one could tell!
