Gog magog and the holy land

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Something quite interesting came up the other day; whilst researching on yajuj majuj..thought id share it here. Theres a similiar thread already, however this is slightly off tangent… And its pretty long so ill put it up in parts.

For a long time now; the christians and Jews (and muslims) have been debating over a well known prophesy that is said to occur just before the End Of Times. This prophecy is about the people/creatures/nations of gog and magog, who are also mentioned in the quran. The actual prophecy states that Gog from the land of Magog will invade the holy land of present day Israel just before the second coming of the messiah, the saviour.

The christians and jews believe gog magog will arrive from Russia -i.e. the ‘King of the North’. According to the evangelist van impe; *The war to end all wars is to be launched against Eretz Yisrael by ‘Gog of the land of Magog, chief prince of Meshech and Tuval’ as foretold in Ezekiel 38 and 39.
*
Now Magog, Meshech and Tuval were the grandsons of Hazrat Nuh from his son Japeth. According to historian Joseph Flavius; the decendents of magog (who were known as the magogites), were a bunch of nomadic tribes who were based around the southern russian steppes, in a mountainous region known as the ‘Caucasus’. The Caucasus is located between the Black Sea and Caspian Sea.

The magogites were well known for being extremely barbaric and uncivilised;

‘*They drank the blood of the first enemy they killed; they carried the heads of the victims to their chiefs; they scalped their enemies and used the scalps as “napkins”; they used the skins of their victims to cover their quivers; they drank from the skulls of their victims; they practiced blood brotherhood by drinking each other’s blood mixed with wine…When their king died, they sacrificed one of his concubines and several servants. After a year, they commemorated his death by sacrificing fifty servants and fifty horses.’

*you get the picture.

To be cont…

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Wallahu' Alam - Before getting further into this, remember that this is one of the 'mutashaabihaats.' You can theorize as much as you can, but it will waste more time and may not serve much good. My '1.5' cents (I am not worth 2, that's why 1.5).

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part 2: the khazer kingdom

From the decendents of the magogites came a tribe called the khazer. the Khazars traced their origins to kozar, a son of Togarmah; who is mentioned in Genesis in the Hebrew scriptures as a grandson of Japeth.

Like thier ancesters, the khazers were fairly brutal and uncouth; yet a higly disciplined group. This made them one of the most feared and most powerful kingdom of their time.

''It is not difficult to determine some of the motivating factors behind the legendary Khazar ferocity in war. "When the bek [the Khazar head of the military and second in command only to the Kagan himself] sends out a body of troops, they do not in any circumstances retreat. If they are defeated, every one who returns to him is killed....Sometimes he cuts every one of them in two and crucifies them and sometimes he hangs them by the neck from trees."

Infact, at one point, during the 6th century (after P. Muhammad's death), the muslims armies waged war northward and conquered whole lands untill they came to the great mountains in the caucasus region; this was where the khazers fought them back.

According to the Columbia University Professor, D. M. Dunlop, had the arab muslims overcome the caucasus region, the history of judeo-christian would have been vastly different to what is now;

Rutgers University Professor;Peter Golden, wrote "Every school child in the West has been told that if not for Charles Martel and the battle of Poitiers there might be a mosque where Notre Dame now stands. What few school children are aware of," Golden emphasizes, "is that if not for the Khazars...Eastern Europe might well have become a province of Islam.

Soviet archaeologist M. I. Artamonov states that; for a century and a half, the Khazars were the supreme masters of the southern half of Eastern Europe and presented a virtually impenetrable bulwark, blocking the Ural-Caspian gateway from Asia into Europe. During that entire period, they held back the onslaught of the nomadic tribes from the East.

The Arab chronicler Ibn-Said al-Maghribi describes them as, "*they are to the north of the inhabited earth towards the 7th clime, having over their heads the constellation of the Plough. Their land is cold and wet. Accordingly their complexions are white, their eyes blue, their hair flowing and predominantly reddish, their bodies large and their natures cold. Their general aspect is wild."

  • This mysterious kingdom, which has sculpted our modern world to an astounding (and alarming) degree, once occupied an immense land area of over a million square miles extending from western Hungary/Austria eastward to the Aural Sea, north to the Upper Volga, and its southern region extending to the Caucasus Mountains between the Black and Caspian seas. It was at that time literally the largest country on earth.

to be cont...

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I find the words Gog magog funny, hardly scary. Anyways does anybody know what Man-o-salwa is in english?

* IF ABOVE PERSON SAY I LOVE U *
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I think its called Manna Dew.

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I would equate it to Ambrosia, from what is told of us in the "traditional" sense... however:

mann: bounty
salwaa: quail (bird), sweet fruit, honey, meat in general given as provision

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Part 3: The khazer kingdom and Hazrat Dhulqernain

Many folks from all monothiestic faiths believe that the khazers were the very same war like and mischief making kingdom that Hazrat Dhulqernain (aka Cyrus the Great) is said to have enclosed in by building iron wall/gates; barring them in from the rest of the civilized world.

In the Quran; the first journey of Cyrus - the emperor of Persia - is spoken of as terminating on the Black Sea:

"Until when he reached the setting place of the sun (or the westernmost point), he found it going down into a black sea." Al-Qur’an 18:86

Then there is a reference to his eastern journey:

“Until when he reached the (land of) the rising sun, he found it rising on a people to whom We had given no shelter from it.” Al-Qur’an 18:90

Still further there is a reference to his northern journey:

“Until when he reached (a place) between the two mountains.” Al-Qur’an 18:93

The reference here is to the mountains of Armenia and Azarbaijan. In this last northern journey, Hazrat Dhulqernain comes across a people who speak a different language; in other words they do not understand the Persian language. These people appeal to Hazrat Dhulqernain in these words:

“O Dhu-l-Qarnain! Gog and Magog do mischief in the land. May we then pay you tribute on condition that you raise a barrier between us and them?” Al-Qur’an 18:94

Further we are told that Hazrat Dhulqernainactually constructed this wall, and there is mention of iron and copper in this connection, which were used for the gates:
“Bring me blocks of iron. At length when he had filled up the space between the two mountain sides, he said, Blow. Till when he had made it (as) fire, he said, Bring me molten brass to pour over it.” Al-Quran 18:96

Further we are told that Hazrat Dhulqernain actually constructed this wall, and there is mention of iron and copper in this connection, which were used for the gates:

"Bring me blocks of iron. At length when he had filled up the space between the two mountain sides, he said, Blow. Till when he had made it (as) fire, he said, Bring me molten brass to pour over it." Al-Quran 18:96

The barrier, gate or wall referred to here is the famous wall of Derbent (or Darband - ‘dar- band’ is persian for closed gate), which is to be found on the shore of the Caspian Sea. There is a mention of it in Marasid al-Ittila’, a famous book of Geography. Ibn al-Faqih also mentions it in his book. The Encyclopedia Biblica gives the following account of the wall:

“Derbent or Darband, a town of Persia, Caucasia, in the province of Daghistan, on the Western shore of the Caspian … to the south lies the seaward extremity of the Caucasian wall, 50 miles long otherwise known as Alexander’s Wall … This, when entire, had a height of 29 ft. and a thickness of about 10 feet, and with its iron gates and numerous watch-towers formed a valuable defense of the Persian frontier.”

In Al-Quran 18:97, we are told that when the wall was completed “they (Gog and Magog) were not able to scale it, nor could they make a hole in it.”

In 18:98, Dhu-l-Qarnain is reported as saying that even this wall will be of use only up to a certain time and it will at last collapse. And then we are presented with another scene:

"And on that day We shall let some of them (Gog and Magog) surge against others." Al-Qur’an 18:99.

The second reference to Gog and Magog occurs in 21:96:

"Even when Gog and Magog are let loose and they rushing forth from every elevated place." Al-Quran 21:96

Rushing forth from every elevated place mean that they will establish their supremacy over the world. The way the Qur’an speaks of them in both places shows that a time will come when these people will overpower the nations of the world.

It also appears that they already existed at the time of the revelation of the Book, but that their movements were to remain checked until a certain time, after which they would wield uncontrolled authority in the whole world.

The ninth-century monk Druthmar of Aquitaine, in his commentary on Matthew 24:14 in Expositio in Matthaeum Evangelistam, stated that the Gazari, or Khazars, dwelt ‘in the lands of Gog and Magog.’ Others believed they were yajooj majooj themselves.

(disclaimer: much of this research is c&p from various relevant sites).

to be cont…

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Part 4: The khazer kingdom and conversion

Now this is where it gets interesting. The khazers although in essence were monothiests in that they believed in a sole higher authority; they had no following of any organised religion. Their practices were immoral,.. to the extent that practices such as cannabilism and and ritual slaughter were the norm.

However, being the most powerful kingdom of thier time; each religion sought eagerly to convert them to their respective faith. The christians priests, the jewish rabbis and muslims Imams often sent gifts and promises to the king of the nation, and yet they refused to submit...

...until that is; King Bulan came to power.

According to Benjamin Freedman the Khazar leaders interest in religion was first precipitated by their monarch's abhorrence of the moral climate into which his kingdom had descended. Freedman and other historians confirmed, that the "primitive" Khazars engaged in extremely immoral forms of religious practices, among them phallic worship. Animal sacrifices were also included in their rites.

According to George Vernadski, in his book A History of Russia, in AD 860 a delegation of Khazars were sent to Constantinople (now known as Istanbul), which was then what remained of the ancient capitol of the old Roman Empire turned Christian under the Emperor Constantine.

Their message was: W*e have known God the Lord of everything [referring here to Tengri] from time immemorial ... and now the Jews are urging us to accept their religion and customs, and the Arabs, on their part, draw us to their faith, promising us peace and many gifts.*

His appeal, in all its implications, was obviously made for the purpose of drawing the Christian Roman Empire into the debate with an eye perhaps toward a balanced argument amongst the major monotheistic religions.

Brook makes the observation that "this statement reveals that the Jews were actively seeking converts in Khazaria in 860." He also adds that "in the year 860, [Christian] Saints Cyril and Methodius were sent as missionaries to the Khazars by the Byzantine emperor Michael III .... since the Khazars had requested that a Christian scholar come to Khazaria to debate with the Jews and Muslims."

After hearing the three faiths debate; the khazer king chose one of the faiths and converted, his subjects following suit.

In as much as the world has seldom (or perhaps never) witnessed any culture of people more adept at the art of religious debate than rabbinical Jews, the Khazar's conversion to Talmudic Judaism is not a surprising outcome, given that such a forum was to be the determining factor in their choice, rather than purely spiritual perceptions.

The outcome was even further assured by the fact that the Christian representatives in the debate came from a church in the latter formative years of the Holy Roman Empire in which, by that time, spiritual sensitivity had become somewhat rare to nearly extinct.

It was at that period of time (about AD 740) that King Bulan of Khazaria was reputed to have converted to Judaism. In the debate amongst the Islamic mullah, the Christian priest and the Jewish rabbi, each presented to the king the advantages and truths of his own precepts of faith.

This king, however, according to some accounts of history, had his own logic for determining which he should embrace. He asked each representative in turn, which of the other two faiths he considered superior.

The result was that the Muslim indicated Judaism over Christianity, and the Christian priest chose it over Islam. The king then concluded that Judaism, being the foundation upon which both of the other monotheistic religions were built, would be that which he and his subjects should embrace. The Khazars, themselves being monotheistic, had also apparently expressed reservations about the polytheistic nature of the Trinity doctrine of the Christians.

J. B. Bury concurs: "There can be no question," he says, "that the ruler was actuated by political motives in adopting Judaism. To embrace Mohammadanism would have made him the spiritual dependent of the Caliphs, who attempted to press their faith on the Khazars, and in Christianity lay the danger of his becoming an ecclesiastical vassal of the Roman Empire.

Judaism was a reputable religion with sacred books which both Christian and Mohammadan respected; it elevated him above the heathen barbarians, and secured him against the interference of Caliph or Emperor."

According to an ancient document entitled King Joseph's Reply to Hasdai ibn Shaprut, Joseph (a later Khazarian king) stated that, "*From that time on the Almighty God helped him [King Bulan] and strengthened him. He and his slaves circumcised themselves and he sent for and brought wise men of Israel who interpreted the Torah for him and arranged the precepts in order.

*King Joseph's Reply also revealed that the successor to King Bulan, his son Obediah, "reorganized the kingdom and established the [Jewish] religion properly and correctly," bringing in numerous Jewish sages who "explained to him the twenty-four books [the Torah], Mishnah, Talmud, and the order of prayers."

To be cont...

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so basically gog and magog are Khazars who converted to Judiasm and then took over Palestine and migrated there and created Israel

so gog and magog are Israelis

there is that your point from this long posts?

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Part 5 - The decline of the khazer kingdom

The Khazarian kingdom reached its peak of power and world influence in the latter half of the eighth century. The decline of their empire was eventually seen in the dragon-headed ships of the Vikings who were to cross and navigate all the major waterways in their onslaughts.

In his book, The Magyars in the Ninth Century, C. A. Macartney quotes the Arab historian, Ibn Rusta: "These people are vigorous and courageous and when they descend on open ground, none can escape from them without being destroyed and their women taken possession of, and themselves taken into slavery.'

The weakening of the Khazar military influence had a very wide and unexpected influence in that it greatly hastened the extinction of the Byzantine Empire. They no longer had a powerful force on their eastern borders to prevent the Vikings, Mongols and others from invading an already weakened dominion. This, and internal factions within Khazaria, was the prolog to the scattering of the Khazar/Jewish seed throughout Russia and eastern Europe.

In general, the reduced Khazar kingdom persevered," says S. W. Baron. "It waged a more or less effective defense against all foes until the middle of the thirteenth century, when it fell victim to the great Mongol invasion set in motion by Jenghiz Khan. Even then it resisted stubbornly until the surrender of all its neighbours....But before and after the Mongol upheaval the Khazars sent many offshoots into the unsubdued Slavonic lands, helping ultimately to build up the great Jewish centres of eastern Europe.

Here, then," remarks Arthur Koestler, "we have the cradle of the numerically strongest and culturally dominant part of modern Jewry."

to be cont...

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Part 6 - The Ashkenazi Jew (Eastern European)

In an ethnic sense, an Ashkenazi Jew is one whose ancestry can be traced to the Jews of central and Eastern Europe (khazers). For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazi Jews were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews.

In a religious sense, an Ashkenazi Jew is any Jew whose family tradition and ritual follows Ashkenazi practice. When the Ashkenazi community first began to develop in the Early Middle Ages and until the 9th century, the centers of Jewish religious authority were in the Islamic world, at Baghdad and in Islamic Spain. Ashkenaz (Germany) was so distant geographically that it developed a minhaq of its own, and Ashkenazi Hebrew came to be pronounced in ways distinct from other forms of Hebrew.

Although in the 11th century they comprised only 3% of the world's Jewish population, Ashkenazi Jews accounted for (at their highest) 92% of the world's Jews in 1931 and today make up approximately 80% of Jews worldwide.

Most Jewish communities with extended histories in Europe are Ashkenazim, with the exception of those associated with the Mediterranain region. A significant portion of the Jews who migrated from Europe to other continents in the past two centuries are Eastern Ashkenazim, particularly in the United States.

Abraham N. Poliak, Tel Aviv University's post-war Professor of Mediaeval Jewish History, wondered at "how far we can go in regarding this [Khazar] Jewry as the nucleus of the large Jewish settlement in Eastern Europe.

The descendants of this settlement," Poliak declares, "those who stayed where they were, those who emigrated to the United States and to other countries, and those who went to Israel -- constitute now the large majority of world Jewry. Some historians, such as Austrian Hugo Kutschera, assert that Eastern European Jewry was not part, but entirely of Khazarian origin.

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Part 7 - The shepardi jews (Western European)

The western european were the orginal semitc jews decending from shem (son of Noah). They were based originally in spain from the time of Hazrat Sulieman. This was way before the khazers had converted to judaism.

Spanish Jews, known as Shepardi, are said to have arrived in the Iberian peninsula in the sixth century BC, after the destruction of the first temple. Their numbers swelled during the Roman occupation of Palestine and the Diaspora.

At the end of the seventh century the newly catholicised Visigoth kings outlawed Judaism, and by the time of the Moorish invasion in 711 there were no communities of openly practicing Jews.

During the Spanish inquisition; the jews were either killed in masses, forced into exile or to convert on the pain of death. This led to the semitic jews in europe being practically wiped out.

Internal upheaval in Muslim Spain saw the influence of the Jews disappear under the repressive Almohades in the mid-twelfth century. In the Christian kingdoms, this period saw the remarkable covivenca, where Jews, Muslims and Christians participated in public life. Anti-Jewish riots broke out in 1391 in Castille, when up to 50,000 Jews are said to have been massacred.

As the Christian armies moved further south during the reconquista, Jews in the newly acquired territories were subject to persecution. There were anti-Semitic riots in the cities of Castille, which resulted in the forced conversion of tens of thousand of Jews. Those Conversos (christianised Jews) that continued to practice the Jewish faith were treated as heretics.

Exiled jews settled in portugal for the time until they were forced out by the king of the time and forced to settle else where.

Two months after defeating the last Muslim kingdom at Granada the Catholic monarchs signed a decree expelling all Jews from Spain. In 1495 the Spanish princess was married to to King Manuel of Portugal. One of the conditions of the marriage was that all Jews were to be expelled from Portugal.

Navarre followed suit in 1498. Of the quarter of a million Jews living in Spain, up to 100,000 fled, the remainder choosing conversion. By the year 1500 there were no openly practicing Jews on the Iberian peninsula.

Shepardic communities were established in Italy, Morocco and the Ottoman Empire. Many cities still have a Juderia, or Jewish quarter. More remarkable is that today, 500 years after their expulsion from Spain, the scattered Shepardi communities continue to speak Ladino, a hybrid of medieval Spanish and Hebrew. Today the term Shepardi is used to describe any Jew who is not Ashkenazi.

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Part 8 - Western and European Jews

Modern Jews are essentially divided into two major categories, ethnically and culturally: Sephardim and Ashkenazim.

The former are primarily of Spanish origin; the name Sephardim being derived from Sepharad, the Hebrew word for Spain, and are likely the closest to actual Semitic Jews that can be established. They were expelled from Spain toward the beginning of the sixteenth century and immigrated to the eastern Mediterranean and Balkans.

As late as 1960s the Sephardic Jews numbered only about 500,000, compared with the Ashkenazim of the same period estimated at approximately twelve million

In defining the origins of the Ashkenazim, Alan Brook states that "The geographic location of the Ashkenaz, based on references in the Torah, may be centered around southern Russia, Armenia, and Asia Minor. The ashkaenoi (askae or askai) were the people also known as Phrygians or Mysians (Meshech)."

Some historians claim that the name Ashkenaz applies exclusively to German Jews. However, more recent evidence shows that they had immigrated from the southern regions of Russia and western Asia and Asia Minor -- that region clearly identified as the location and origin of the ancient Khazars.

The name originally indicated Iranians and was later given as the name of the god of Meshech, Men Askaenos. "It should also be pointed out," Brook adds, "that Ashkenaz did not become a definite Jewish designation for Germany until the eleventh century."

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Part 9 - The Ashkinazis and Semitism

According to the explanation by the Talmud," writes Hugo Freiherr, "Ashkenaz thus means a country near the Black Sea between Ararat and the Caucasus, within the original region of the Khazar empire." This, again, is precisely the geographic locality of the Khazarian empire.

The Talmudic observation is abetted by Scripture which names Ashkenaz as descending not from Shem but from Japheth through Gomer, and whose uncles were Magog and Tubal. (See Gen. 10:3)

"The evidence," Mr. Koestler nicely summates, "...adds up to a strong case in favour of those modern historians -- whether Austrian, Israeli or Polish -- who, independently from each other, have argued that the bulk of modern Jewry is not of Palestinian, but of Caucasian origin.

The mainstream of Jewish migrations did not flow from the Mediterranean across France and Germany to the east and then back again. The stream moved in a consistently westerly direction, from the Caucasus through the Ukraine into Poland and thence into Central Europe.

When that unprecedented mass-settlement in Poland came into being, there were simply not enough Jews around in the west to account for it; while in the east a whole nation was on the move to new frontiers.

With the overwhelming evidence that the modern Jewish population is of Khazar origin, Koestler remarks that this would clearly indicate that "t*heir ancestors came not from the Jordan but from the Volga, not from Canaan but from the Caucasus, once believed to be the cradle of the Aryan race; and that genetically they are more closely related to the Hun, Uigur and Magyar tribes than to the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob*."

This conclusion would then logically render the epithet "anti-Semitism" "void of meaning," Koestler says.

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Part 10 - Zionism and Israel

Somewhere in the historical roots of the Ashkenazi Khazars there incubated a desire to possess a national Jewish homeland. That desire expressed itself in the form of a Messianic movement in twelfth century Khazaria that took on the texture of a "Jewish crusade" whose goal was the forcible subjugation of Palestine. A Khazar Jew named Solomon ben Duji instigated the movement and began an international correspondence with all the Jews of surrounding nations.

It seems that ben Duji was possessed of messianic delusions of his own in that he claimed that "the time had come in which God would gather Israel, His people from all lands to Jerusalem, the holy city, and that Solomon Ben Duji was Elijah, and his son the Messiah.

At times Arthur Koestler, in his broad and extensive treatment of this subject, appears, as a Jew himself, to wrestle with the glaring contradiction that the Jews, who have no genetic or true ethnic identity, are entitled to land they have never, by any right of descent, owned or possessed, and whose ancestors have never occupied.

Then, claiming to be the state of Israel, created by United Nations fiat, they arbitrarily removed that land from the possession of those who have legitimately owned and occupied it for thousands of years.

Mr. Koestler claims that such right "is not based on the hypothetical origins of the Jewish people, nor on the mythological covenant of Abraham with God; it is based on international law -- i.e., on the United Nations' decision in 1947 to partition Palestine...[actually declared, May 14, 1948.]

This desire for a Jewish homeland echoed down the centuries and found expression again. "It was among Ashkenazi Jews," says the Encyclopedia Americana, "that the idea of political Zionism emerged, leading ultimately to the establishment of the state of Israel....In the late 1960s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered some 11 million, about 84 percent of the world Jewish population.

Thus he eliminates what would logically seem to be the most legitimate grounds (if there are any at all) for the establishment of Israel (possession by racial lineage), and bases his argument on the vaporous contention of what he calls "international law".

What the United Nations did in 1948 was arguably to make its first official act a violation of its own charter in the dispossession of over four million Palestinians for the purpose of creating a nation that had no ancestral or current right whatsoever to the land.

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Part 11- Summary of the findings:

Benjamin H. Freedman was born in 1890, was a successful Jewish businessman of New York City who was at one time the principal owner of the Woodbury Soap Company.

Mr. Freedman was personally acquainted with Bernard Baruch, Samuel Untermyer, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Joseph Kennedy, and John F. Kennedy, and many more movers and shakers of our times.

This speech was given before a patriotic audience in 1961 at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D.C., on behalf of Conde McGinley’s patriotic newspaper of that time, Common Sense.

you can read up more on his views here:

jewhttp://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-freedman.html

The eastern European Jews, who form 92 per cent of the world’s population of those people who call themselves Jews, were originally Khazars. They were a warlike tribe who lived deep in the heart of Asia. And they were so warlike that even the Asiatics drove them out of Asia into eastern Europe. They set up a large Khazar kingdom of 800,000 square miles. At the time, Russia did not exist, nor did many other European countries. The Khazar kingdom was the biggest country in all Europe – so big and so powerful that when the other monarchs wanted to go to war, the Khazars would lend them 40,000 soldiers. That’s how big and powerful they were.

They were phallic worshippers, which is filthy and I do not want to go into the details of that now. But that was their religion, as it was also the religion of many other pagans and barbarians elsewhere in the world. The Khazar king became so disgusted with the degeneracy of his kingdom that he decided to adopt a so-called monotheistic faith – either Christianity, Islam, or what is known today as Judaism, which is really Talmudism.

He picked out so-called Judaism. And that became the state religion. He sent down to the Talmudic schools of Pumbedita and Sura and brought up thousands of rabbis, and opened up synagogues and schools, and his people became what we call Jews.

There wasn’t one of them who had an ancestor who ever put a toe in the Holy Land. Not only in Old Testament history, but back to the beginning of time. Not one of them! And yet they come to the Christians and ask us to support their armed insurrections in Palestine by saying, “You want to help repatriate God’s Chosen People to their Promised Land, their ancestral home, don’t you? It’s your Christian duty. We gave you one of our boys as your Lord and Savior. You now go to church on Sunday, and you kneel and you worship a Jew, and we’re Jews.”

But they are pagan Khazars who were converted just the same as the Irish were converted. It is as ridiculous to call them “people of the Holy Land,” as it would be to call the 54 million Chinese Moslems “Arabs.” Mohammed only died in 620 A.D., and since then 54 million Chinese have accepted Islam as their religious belief.

Now imagine, in China, 2,000 miles away from Arabia, from Mecca and Mohammed’s birthplace. Imagine if the 54 million Chinese decided to call themselves “Arabs.”

You would say they were lunatics. Anyone who believes that those 54 million Chinese are Arabs must be crazy. All they did was adopt as a religious faith a belief that had its origin in Mecca, in Arabia. The same as the Irish. When the Irish became Christians, nobody dumped them in the ocean and imported to the Holy Land a new crop of inhabitants. They hadn’t become a different people. They were the same people, but they had accepted Christianity as a religious faith.

These Khazars, were a Mongoloid race who were forced out of Asia into eastern Europe. Because their king took the Talmudic faith, they had no choice in the matter. Just the same as in Spain: If the king was Catholic, everybody had to be a Catholic. If not, you had to get out of Spain. So the Khazars became what we call today Jews.

Now imagine how silly it was for the great Christian countries of the world to say; “We’re going to use our power and prestige to repatriate God’s Chosen People to their ancestral homeland, their Promised Land.” Could there be a bigger lie than that?

Because they control the newspapers, the magazines, the radio, the television, the book publishing business, and because they have the ministers in the pulpit and the politicians on the soapboxes talking the same language, it is not too surprising that you believe that lie.

That is one of the great lies of history. ’

The influx of what we now know to be Jews of Khazarian origin constituted the first “invasion” of Gog from the land of Magog, as prophesied in Biblical scripture. The fascinating aspect of it is that, as with virtually all other prophecies, those claiming theological pre-eminence in their knowledge of Scripture completely missed the fulfilment - just as did the Jews at the first coming of the Messiah.

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You started off with Gog Magog and towards the end I end up finding out Jewish history. I have never read so lengthy posts but this was the first one. I though there might be soemthing interesting to read about gog magog but it turned out to be a history of jewish. Man I wasted too much time.

The Random Thread
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:clap: Congratulations for posting the most comprehensive thread to spew hatred I have seen in my years on gupshup. You went through a lot of work to try to find religious and historical reasons to demean Jews as the worst people on the face of the earth and justify your hatred. Disgusting and shameful.

Ma, did you learn of this grotesque fairytale while sitting on Uncle Ahmadinejad’s lap? You sure have put a lot of time and energy into this. Perhaps the nutjob will give you a position in his cabinet. Oh, that’s right you are but a mere woman, so probably not.

Do you feel better now? Nice and smug in your Muslimness and superiority to Jews? Righteousness in your belief that Israel should be wiped from the map?

Does your hatred know no bounds? Do you believe a halo appeared over your head when writing this like it does whenever Uncle Nutjob speaks with his forked tongue?

You should be ashamed, but of course your’e not. Your hatred makes you delusional. If I had one iota of respect for your posts, this pathetic thread has all but crushed it.

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Ma Mooli, the site where you got this article from

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-freedman.html

That is like someone quoting an article about Islam from http://www.jihadwatch.org/

Please develop a sense of intellect and don’t just blindly post anything anti-jewish

20

Re: Gog magog and the holy land

:aq: Interesting…

folks; despite what you may think; i havent made all this up deegeh; (i couldnt if i tried), nor did i go out of my way to prove the theory of a specific race decending from the magogites. It could be any race for all i care. However; its the most interesting and credible theory on gog magog i have ever come across so far.

and yeah these are theories from acknowledged and respected historians jews included; so if you have some beef dude; i’d take it up with them. If you think its flawed; i suggest you get off your high horse rant and bring up your theory to refute it. else kindly stop the whinging and give someone else a go.

IMO according to the historians; the ashkenazi jews seem to have as much claim to the land of israel as you have. If i were to ask your council to kick you out of your home and hand it over to me because; it happened to belong to one of my ancestors; im willing to bet you wouldnt be too chuffed either…esp. if it was on a false basis to begin with…

so lets not pretend everything was all rosy and dandy in the formation of israel; and that there werent great lies being told to everyone at a time when millions of real semites were being displaced by fake ones. If thats not an invasion of a nation deegeh; please tell me what is.

… and pray tell whats my uncle got to do with this?:halo: the jews seem to be pretty darn happy where he comes from.