@BigdaNawab
Humans are not limited to five senses, at the very least we are blessed with twelve senses that in their full potential help us to perceive the world the way we do. And these senses have limitations and things lying outside those boundaries appear to be magic tricks or illusions that are very common. Given that our senses provide raw unprocessed data limited by their ability to capture true nature, our primary source of perception should not senses like sight, hearirng and touch, it should be reason which works by taking into account all of the input data from senses, processing it with our critical thinking and this was all pointed out by the ancient greek philosopher Descartes.
Given the point in time we are, at the peak of civilization and culture we can surely conclude that yes we are significant as compared to other species who have coinhabited this planet along with us. But my question is what if you take the last 14billion years, the complete history of this planet. Do we still remain significant? My argument is that humans have been on this planet for less than 0.1% of the time, for such a small period it would be premature to ask this question. In this respect I would suggest that plants have been more important/significant than us Humans. From the first plants 450 million years ago till today they have changed the earths atmosphere, or the single cell organism Archae responsible for introducing oxygen into atmosphere and making life and thus evolution possible would stand above every other specie in importance.
Yes the glass of water is significant when thirsty but it is significant again for us and us only. The whole universe, all the oceans, and creatures living on land and in sea, would not care for us or that glass of water. Our life and death does not affects anything on this planet in the grand picture. @Balthier
My concept of religion is that it compliments science. Things that we can not prove, are then believed. It is faith in the unseen. And with time as science progresses these believes are modified to reflect true nature. So I do think religion has a lot of logic and wisdom for people who do not seek to find the truth. It gives them a shortcut to reach the end goal without grasping the intermediate pieces that form the full picture.
@BigdaNawab
Humans are not limited to five senses, at the very least we are blessed with twelve senses that in their full potential help us to perceive the world the way we do. And these senses have limitations and things lying outside those boundaries appear to be magic tricks or illusions that are very common. Given that our senses provide raw unprocessed data limited by their ability to capture true nature, our primary source of perception should not senses like sight, hearirng and touch, it should be reason which works by taking into account all of the input data from senses, processing it with our critical thinking and this was all pointed out by the ancient greek philosopher Descartes.
Given the point in time we are, at the peak of civilization and culture we can surely conclude that yes we are significant as compared to other species who have coinhabited this planet along with us. But my question is what if you take the last 14billion years, the complete history of this planet. Do we still remain significant? My argument is that humans have been on this planet for less than 0.1% of the time, for such a small period it would be premature to ask this question. In this respect I would suggest that plants have been more important/significant than us Humans. From the first plants 450 million years ago till today they have changed the earths atmosphere, or the single cell organism Archae responsible for introducing oxygen into atmosphere and making life and thus evolution possible would stand above every other specie in importance.
Yes the glass of water is significant when thirsty but it is significant again for us and us only. The whole universe, all the oceans, and creatures living on land and in sea, would not care for us or that glass of water. Our life and death does not affects anything on this planet in the grand picture.
@Balthier
My concept of religion is that it compliments science. Things that we can not prove, are then believed. It is faith in the unseen. And with time as science progresses these believes are modified to reflect true nature. So I do think religion has a lot of logic and wisdom for people who do not seek to find the truth. It gives them a shortcut to reach the end goal without grasping the intermediate pieces that form the full picture.
First of all Rene Descartes was a French philosopher in the 17th century.
You clearly think you are too smart here. I am here to address the center question by the Thread creator.
@BigdaNawab
Humans are not limited to five senses, at the very least we are blessed with twelve senses that in their full potential help us to perceive the world the way we do. And these senses have limitations and things lying outside those boundaries appear to be magic tricks or illusions that are very common. Given that our senses provide raw unprocessed data limited by their ability to capture true nature, our primary source of perception should not senses like sight, hearirng and touch, it should be reason which works by taking into account all of the input data from senses, processing it with our critical thinking and this was all pointed out by the ancient greek philosopher Descartes.
Given the point in time we are, at the peak of civilization and culture we can surely conclude that yes we are significant as compared to other species who have coinhabited this planet along with us. But my question is what if you take the last 14billion years, the complete history of this planet. Do we still remain significant? My argument is that humans have been on this planet for less than 0.1% of the time, for such a small period it would be premature to ask this question. In this respect I would suggest that plants have been more important/significant than us Humans. From the first plants 450 million years ago till today they have changed the earths atmosphere, or the single cell organism Archae responsible for introducing oxygen into atmosphere and making life and thus evolution possible would stand above every other specie in importance.
Yes the glass of water is significant when thirsty but it is significant again for us and us only. The whole universe, all the oceans, and creatures living on land and in sea, would not care for us or that glass of water. Our life and death does not affects anything on this planet in the grand picture.
@Balthier
My concept of religion is that it compliments science. Things that we can not prove, are then believed. It is faith in the unseen. And with time as science progresses these believes are modified to reflect true nature. So I do think religion has a lot of logic and wisdom for people who do not seek to find the truth. It gives them a shortcut to reach the end goal without grasping the intermediate pieces that form the full picture.
^^^ 1) Please explain how we have free will if everything about our existence is predetermined (b/c that would make any kind of prayers useless)? 2) If God can create everything why is God so impressed with creation of humans (surely we have self interest in thinking we are important)?
Whether we worship God or believe in Him does not benefit Him.He is in no need of His creation. HIS Creation does not add to His majesty and He doesnt suffer from poor judgment and anxieties like human. So He doesn't need praise or acknowledgement for His ego sake.
Does water need plant or plant benefit more from water? Does the sun need Earth or the Earth benefits from the Sun? Does water need plant's acknowledgement? Does the Sun need Earth's praise to be itself? No! Yet, whether one is able to scientially understand Sun and water contribution or not does not change the relationship the two have.
First of all Rene Descartes was a French philosopher in the 17th century.
You clearly think you are too smart here. I am here to address the center question by the Thread creator.
Sorry my bad, you are right it was french philosopher, I had him mixed up with Democritus.
And Yes I do think that I am reasonably smart.
And I was also answering center question by OP, that yes we are too insignificant (until now), and my point which you probably misread was that it is premature to speculate this. Humans haven't lived long enough for any considerable purpose. We don't have the whole picture in front of us that tells us how and where we fit in the big plan, that is why we are insignificant.
We remain central characters of game b/c we think we are important (self preservation?)
I am not saying anything about what we think. I am just saying that if God wanted to create everything that is so great in scale compared to us, and still keep us as central characters in His game, he easily could. So, we need not worry about the scale of things around us if we believe in God being all powerful.
...btw, if software creator created flawed system how can system be blamed, but not the system creator?
Don't know about it. That is why I have been qualifying my responses with "if God exists".
Sorry, but religions often say contradictory things & free will is one of them. How can you have free will if God preset everything for you (preordained destiny)? You cannot have both.
As for Jins, their existence is limited to Islamic theology. There is no actual proof of their existence.
not religions!!
But religion, islam.
Other wise it make whole thing very childish logic. Its like we are presenting you with samsug glexy, you tell us
problem with nokia, sony etc.
I repeat one more time, there are people on this GS who have experience unexplained, including me.
Is witness not an evidence ?
So try again please. Lets talk humans only.
1-is there any other then humans, in the known universe, who needed advice how to go about doing their existence?? is there any thing which has power to make such decision at its own, like human?
Sorry my bad, you are right it was french philosopher, I had him mixed up with Democritus.
And Yes I do think that I am reasonably smart.
And I was also answering center question by OP, that yes we are too insignificant (until now), and my point which you probably misread was that it is premature to speculate this. Humans haven't lived long enough for any considerable purpose. We don't have the whole picture in front of us that tells us how and where we fit in the big plan, that is why we are insignificant.
Significance is by definition a relative value. So I can agree and disagree with you, and it would be useless as a premise that explores objective truth of God.
The question is not the reflection of my weak faith, but just one out of many queries that pop into my brain, because God has given me the ability to think and rationalize.
please do let me know if you find an answer.....good luck!
sight deviation from the topic but before we go too deep into the discussion, i think it is fair to say that all of us think about the existence of God..............at some point in our lives!
and at least for me...the biggest hope/proof of Allah's existence is the description of solar system and human reproduction in Quran in detail way before science actually discovered those details ............ and if Allah is not there thenwho revealed all of this to an illiterate man, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) ???
“ Was (man) not a sperm which has been poured out. After that he was something which clings, then (God) fashioned him in due proportion “ (75:37-38)..The Qur'an calls the fertilised egg “something which clings” because it clings to the wall of the uterus***
“ We cause whom We will to rest in the womb for an appointed term” ***.......and now we know that the implantation of the fertilized egg has to take place inside the womb for pregnancy to occur........
Kon tha who was telling Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) all of this 1400 years ago ...how come he, without any scientific background, and living in a backward civilization, predicted this scientific phenomena so accurately which we now know due to scientific knowledge?
and if God is there.....then rest is just a permutation of endless scenarios..........this vs that or that vs this!
That this confluence of random molecules born in the heart of dying stars eons ago, can contemplate and ask such questions, means its existence is significant.