I found one of the extremely committed posters using this as his signature.
Does this not mean God knows and wills each and every occurance in the world?
Then how come humans are considered responsible for their actions? Isn’t everything they do as per God’s will?
Re: God controls everything?
Does this not mean God knows and wills each and every occurance in the world?
God does not "will" but he "permits" evil in this world. Why? because He has given us choice to choose from good and evil. His permitting evil in the world reflects His goodness in some way.
Then how come humans are considered responsible for their actions? Isn't everything they do as per God's will?
If we have choice to choose from good and evil then who should be responsible for the actions? God may will to turn the good to bad and bad to good but we are responsible for what we choose to do!
Queer-io, how tragic. Such questions and that too on a sunday night. :)
As I would understand it, the difference between a raindrop and human lies in their respective "modi operandi" - one has free will whilst the other has none. Hence the judgement.
Knowledge and will are separate issues.
Ms. Nee-sa,
i'm stuck at home with a bad cold and associated paraphernalia since the last two days.
i'd assumed the line to be metaphorical rather than literal. in any case, if man creates a raindrop by acting out of his free will, wouldnt that be a contradiction?
Tell me queer, how can man create a rain drop?
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
simple. fly up in a jet, seed a rain cloud with iodide, and you get man made rain drops.
islam and other religen never explained who is responsible for bad things that happen. is there any destructive aspect of god?
if god responsible for wonderfull things who is responisble
for the things that is not so wonderful.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by rvikz: *
islam and other religen never explained who is responsible for bad things that happen. is there any destructive aspect of god?
if god responsible for wonderfull things who is responisble
for the things that is not so wonderful.
[/QUOTE]
Well, God tests His believers sometimes, like sometimes you see a person who is blind or deaf or whatever....That's just the test from God for that person...And this life is just a test...It won't last forever....everyone is responsible for their "actions"(responsible for ONLY those things that we chose to do) and on the day of ressurection, God will decide who will go to Heaven and who will go to Hell...
Re: God controls everything?
By your weird Queer logic every crime that is committed by Americans …ultimately is responsibility of American Govt b/c arnt govt the representative OF the people by the people & for the people .
God help me if by my allegience to George Bushh ,i would rely on him to feed cloth & educate me ??/
This is weird answer for queer question.
Science can clone & artificial insemination can in vitro produce HUMAN …CAN THAT SCIENTIST BE RESPONSIBLE THEN FOR THAT BABY ??
Lastly the religious belief is not Logic or Science otherwise nuts like you wouldnt have scientology for you .Faitrh is possibility .Belief against statistics belief in exceptions & miracles …
Chal bhag yahan se :nahnah: 
Re: God controls everything?
By your weird Queer logic every crime that is committed by Americans …ultimately is responsibility of American Govt b/c arnt govt the representative OF the people by the people & for the people .
God help me if by my allegience to George Bushh ,i would rely on him to feed cloth & educate me ??/
This is weird answer for queer question.
Science can clone & artificial insemination can in vitro produce HUMAN …CAN THAT SCIENTIST BE RESPONSIBLE THEN FOR THAT BABY ??
Lastly the religious belief is not Logic or Science otherwise nuts like you wouldnt have scientology for you .Faitrh is possibility .Belief against statistics belief in exceptions & miracles …
Chal bhag yahan se :nahnah:
Queerio,
Try this,
As muslims we see God as all knowing, all powerful, and yes we truly do believe that *"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it." * it is not just a figure of speech. Now you're asking if everything is known to Him and everything is in His most powerful grasp, where does the matter of freewill come in...
You and I, we're nothing but mere mortals, once born we begin to die, we're limited by the physics and concepts that surround us, the things that make up the world we live on and in a sense are a part of. And one such concept is that of time, it limits us, we see things as belonging to the past, present or future, we can't get rid of time, its there, its a very real part of the world we live in. But God is not one who is limited by time, God is not limited period. And so if one takes that into account, God has knowledge of that (in our eyes) which was, is and will be, for He is not limited by the boundaries of time, His knowledge is infinite. He knows what will come to be, yet our choices, the decisions we make are of our own will, for God has blessed us with an intellect to reason with and given us the freedom to make our own decisions and thus we will bear the consequences of the choices we make. God's knowledge does not change that.
...how's that?
very good question. Someone told me once that Islamically, one's fate can be changed by making dua, and by believing in God, etc.
In essence, God does will everything, but He's open to change his plans if you change yourself...?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
very good question. Someone told me once that Islamically, one's fate can be changed by making dua, and by believing in God, etc.
In essence, God does will everything, but He's open to change his plans if you change yourself...?
[/QUOTE]
IF YOU FOLLOW THAT STATEMENT WITH "SO IAM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY SINS"Then you are wrong.
Otherwise you can imagine things to suite your concept any which way you can ....
013.011 For each (such person) there are (angels) in succession, before and behind him: They guard him by command of Allah. Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change it themselves (with their own souls). But when (once) Allah willeth a people’s punishment, there can be no turning it back, nor will they find, besides Him, any to protect.
025.070 Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil of such persons into good, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful,
008.053 "Because Allah will never change the grace which He hath bestowed on a people until they change what is in their (own) souls: and verily Allah is He Who heareth and knoweth (all things)."
032.013 If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me will come true, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."
013.031 If there were a Qur’an with which mountains were moved, or the earth were cloven asunder, or the dead were made to speak, (this would be the one!) But, truly, the command is with Allah in all things! Do not the Believers know, that, had Allah (so) willed, He could have guided all mankind (to the right)? But the Unbelievers,- never will disaster cease to seize them for their (ill) deeds, or to settle close to their homes, until the promise of Allah come to pass, for, verily, Allah will not fail in His promise.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
simple. fly up in a jet, seed a rain cloud with iodide, and you get man made rain drops.
[/QUOTE]
I think you need to look beyond this.
Allah swt made law for regulating the Nature and human being is capable to manipulate this law if you know how.
What Al-Quran says Look Rain and observes the law. Can you change that?
IF YOU FOLLOW THAT STATEMENT WITH "SO IAM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR MY SINS"Then you are wrong.
Dude, no need to go the extra mile there. I am not following my statement up with the one you put forth up there.
One of the Quranic ayahs up there echoes my statement, it seems. That unless you change yourself, God's plan of fate will continue. In essence, you do have the power to be responsible for your sins. But if you dont excercise this power, then God will make you go through the Pattern he designs.
GfQ, that was excellent! :k:
ps-how & where are you? 