God and gays: Churchgoers divided

By Cathy Lynn Grossman, USA TODAY

Every Sunday there’s an intense struggle in the souls of some believers as one religious denomination after another battles over the rights and roles of homosexuals.

Gay or not, progressive or traditional, those who disagree with their denomination’s stance wonder:

Should they leave their church?

Has their church left them?

Is this any place to find God at all?

The questions are as fresh as the headlines, as old as Christianity itself. Early fathers of the church ruled on which teachings were heresy and which were “true.”

“Denominations have fractured since Day One. The very word ‘denominated’ means divided,” says Boston University sociologist Nancy Ammerman.

This week the national governing bodies of two mainline Protestant denominations, the Episcopal Church USA and the Presbyterian Church (USA), each meet to debate their views on gay clergy and same-sex unions, and whether the denominational rulings or local churches should have the final say.

But while leaders argue, ordinary people soldier on.

Many, gay or straight, seek a community of souls that welcomes them and shares their sense of the Scriptures and the sacred.

It may mean staying in their church of a lifetime, finding ways to accept - or overlook - teachings with which they disagree.

Most people (72%) have stayed with one religion all their lives, according to a USA TODAY/Gallup survey of 1,002 adults June 9-11. Brian Flanagan, 28, a cradle Catholic, openly gay and studying to be a theologian, says not even an unbroken line of rulings from the Vatican can drive him from his church because what truly matters is the “way it talks about Christ, about God.”

It may mean they must decamp for a church more fitting to their current faith. The survey found 15% say they’ve switched religions. Many of these switchers (40%) say disagreement over church teachings was the major reason for moving, another 24% say that is a minor reason.

The Rev. Jo Gayle Hudson, 52, had no choice. She was outed as a lesbian and booted from her post in the United Methodist Church just days before she was to be ordained as an elder. Now, she’s a United Church of Christ pastor at the nation’s largest gay church.

Some walk away to pursue a personal spirituality - about 10% say they now have no religious denominational preference.

Others struggle with their choices.

Perhaps, like 26% of switchers, they are unhappy with the local church’s actions - or inaction. Or, like 25%, they like the faith but not the squabblings of national leaders.

Architect Jim Cullion, 52, is halfway out the door of Trinity Church in Boston. He’s “very hurt, very sad” that the historic Episcopal church didn’t take a stand for gay men such as him during Massachusetts’ same-sex-union battles.

Barbara Brown Taylor, 55, left the Episcopal priesthood, observing that “human beings never behave more badly toward one another than when they believe they are protecting God.”

There it is, the three-letter word that makes all the difference.
Not S-E-X or G-A-Y but G-O-D.

“Gay Catholics, like women who don’t like the church’s stance on ordination, tend to place those things on a lower level of authority than the church’s teachings on fundamentals such as the Resurrection and the Eucharist,” says the Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and author of My Life with the Saints.

A familiar faith

They want to stay with the family, the songs and prayers of a lifetime or a familiar road to the divine, because they have hope for change, even if it’s not in their own lifetime.

“They say to themselves, ‘I accept the most important part - the creed - and the other things I will strive to change and hope they will change.’ It’s like being a proud American but disagreeing on foreign policy,” Martin says.

“The openness of American culture encourages people to feel they needn’t stick where they were brought up. They can try something new if they are dissatisfied,” says Ammerman.

“They can leave the farm, and they can leave the faith.”

Surveys have shown that most of the growing denominations and non-denominational community “Bible churches” are theologically conservative, with no openly gay clergy or no same-sex unions blessed.

When the Rev. Mark Coppenger, a Southern Baptist, started a new conservative Evangelical church in Evanston, Ill., in the heart of Chicago’s liberal North Shore, he soon found students switching from liberal Protestant churches “where they didn’t find what they later came to cherish in biblical teaching and preaching,” he says.

Doctrine does play a role in the ways religion reflects and shapes society and culture, experts say.

“Whether it’s the 1840s and slavery, the 1960s and '70s and women, or the 1990s and 2000s on homosexuality, what is on people’s minds in their communities will show up in their churches,” Ammerman says.

Once, black people, women and homosexuals were viewed the same way by the leading theologians of the times: “They were all cursed by God in Scripture, inferior in moral character and willfully sinful and deserving punishment,” says the Rev. Jack Rogers, former head of the Presbyterian Church (USA) and author of a new book, Jesus, the Bible and Homosexuality.

Eventually, most churches found a biblical basis for changing their stance on race and gender but not on homosexuality.

Churches slow to change

The largest U.S. denominations - Roman Catholics, Southern Baptists, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) and Lutherans in the Missouri Synod - clearly proclaim that homosexual behavior is a sin.

They don’t allow a different theological direction, however welcoming individual congregations may be. Change is not on their agendas.

Ammerman forecasts it could take another generation before mainline Protestant groups set a clear direction.

Last summer, the United Methodist Church voted down all proposals to liberalize its views on homosexuality, including a motion to acknowledge that “faithful Christians hold differing opinions,” but the issue is sure to return to the 2008 agenda.

And the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America began a four-year process of examining its views on ordaining gay clergy and blessings for same-sex unions.

Rogers wonders whether churches can afford the wait, particularly when some, such as the Presbyterian and Episcopal churches, are losing members at a rate of 40,000 a year, he says.

“Young adults today can’t understand what the fuss is all about. Their lives are colorblind. They have gay friends and straight friends. They have good values, but they don’t stay with the church,” he says.

“The gay-rights battle isn’t the main reason, but it’s one of them. They don’t see in their church a lens to see the world.”

And people of all ages “are really tired of all this” fighting.

“Most people just want to get on with thinking about Jesus.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060613/ts_usatoday/godandgayschurchgoersdivided

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Pick and choose based on whim. :hehe:

What a religion, they musn’t think it’s perfect or infaliable then.

If it’s such a flimsy religion why even take any chances and pretend it’s a means of salvation? How would you know what to believe and what not to believe?

I’m a Muslim and there’s certain things in my religion which I don’t yet practice but I believe them in my heart and hope to change myself.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Love yourself, love the opposite sex, love the same sex. WHOCARES, there just isn't enough love in this world.
Too many heterosexuals who kill for their misguided religious belief exist in this world.
LOVE should be all that matters not parochial hate mongering.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

They r just *, who know that their religion prohibits it strictly, yet they r trying to legitimize their ** ways, what a bunch of fruits.

do NOT use offensive terminology.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

It would behoove you all to love your fellow people on earth more dearly no matter their sexual orientation for ALLAH gave them all LIFE to exist peacefully and lovingly on this planet.:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Yes he did, but he also forbidding homosexuality.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

it's also in the animal world. Did he speak to them not to engage in it also.

Sexual orientation of one's choice should be accepted. I know a few muslim men who are gay and a few women who are lesbians and they are full of joy , love, kindness than the parochial fundies.:)

I know of a lovely gay couple two years ago who adopted a little girl and this year a little boy. Two of the most loving , sensitive and intelligent men. Both with established careers, both athletically inclined , both well read and both with exemplary manners and both with a great deal of love, patience and nurturing abilities and skills. The children are blessed to have such parents. And the grandparents are head over heels in joy. LOVE BOUNCES OF THE WALLS, SUNSHINE RADIATES IN THE HOUSE AND THEy MAKE HOME MADE BABY FOOD NOT store bought cans and jars of fruit , veggies etc. She is slightly over five years now and she can read and she can add and subtract up to five, and count to 100. what i mean up to five : 2-1, 5-4, 3-1 , 4-1, etc etc or 2+1, 3+3, 4+5, etc etc, you get the picture. And she can swim a whole length of the pool and recently got her first set of roller blades which makes her squeal with delight when she is on them. Happy, healthy babies

And I have known heterosexuals couples who should be been born sterile instead of having had children. Some have even hit the front pages with their horrific lack of parenting skills, knowledge and/or effort

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

they are fags who r going to burn in hell enuff said. BTW there is no such thing as muslim gays and lesbians, they might think they are muslims but they aren't.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Given the choice between one gay couple and one heterosexual couple only and no others to adopt . Therefore, by your response I can only infer with some credibility based on the facts I 've read from you that you would sooner have the kids adopted to the heterosexual couple no matter how mean spirited, stupid and imbecilic they are but as long as they are heterosexual. :) Or am I wrong and have mistated.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Let Allah decide who's muslim and who's not. A muslim by very definition is one who attests that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad (Sallallah Alaih Wasalam) is his Prophet.

As long as you follow that and donot commit shirk (associating partners with Allah) then you are a Muslim. You may commit sins, minor and major, and for those you will be punished, but you still are a muslim as long as that basic tenant of faith is intact. There is not one amongst us who does not sin...donot call someone a non muslim just on the basis of their sins, however major or minor.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

You know what Allah swt did to the city of sodom and why?

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

The people of Sodom and Gammorah wernt muslims as far as I know.

Im not saying its not a sin. I know its a HUGE sin, but is it shirk ? No.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

What did Allah swt do to the city of homosexuals?

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Ya'akhee, they got killed, we all know. But you arnt listening, were they muslims ? No. Is Homosexuality SHIRK ? no .

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Please give me proof from Quran and Sunnah that Homosexuals are not muslims.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Zaida research karna paraga, tho mein sirf yehi kaunga kah Allah swt gays ko pasand nahi karteh, agree or disagree?

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

I never once said that its not a SIN. By definition all sins are not liked by Allah.

You give me proof now from Quran and Sunnah that Homosexuals are not muslims.

Labeling someone a kafir / not muslim is a big thing by the way. And if they arnt kafir or non muslim then its a sin to label them as such. Hence be careful.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Okay bhai saab.

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

out of the 14 posts, 9 posts were made by ids having something to do pathans. wondering if its just a coincidence :confused:

Re: God and gays: Churchgoers divided

Was that prior to Allah having spoken to Mohammad?