Re: God, a proven fact or a mere fiction?
Dear queer, who told you that proof has to be independent of the case or claims and the evidences stated within the testimony or witness statement? Please learn what proof is before you ask for one.
You are repeating the same mistakes as brother kprasad and others. Proof is only a reliable testimony or statement. The testimony or statement is the quran and it talks about things so go ahead and verify its verifiable statements and see what you get.
When a witness statement is presented, it is up to others to understand and scrutinize the testimony and if it stands to reason then it is the proof itself. If it does not then it is false. Whether the quran is a reliable testimony or not we cannot tell till we go through it thoroughly and verify all facts stated within it that are verifiable for us. If the quran proves to be ok then it is proof of what it claims to be otherwise it is proof of the fact that it is not what it claims to be.
The quran or for that matter no scripture needs us rather it is need of humanity. Why? Look at the world around you and you should come to realise this fact for yourself. It is not for me to prove anything to anyone but as human beings we need to see whether we are happy with what we see. If we are, fine but if we are not then we need to change the world. Do we want to change for the better or for the worst? If better, the quran challenges us all to produce a better program if we can than the quran. It lays down a target for us to achieve ie peace. Can anyone do one better than that including you and I? The answer is, there is no better goal than having and creating peace in the world for mankind. The quran also lays down some terms and condition for peace without which there cannot be peace in the world. Can any of us human beings come up with any better terms and conditions for peace? The answer is again no. If this is the case then why not accept the quran as a divine program, constitution and guidance for formation of laws? Are these not the clear evidences that the quran is not a human work?
Just think about what kind of person a human will have to be to create a book like the quran? How many people have you educated in your life so far? Do you try your best to make others cleverer than yourself? You know very well that if others became cleverer than you they will knock you out of place because in this world the way things are done they are based on harsh rivalries and that involves undercutting each other not offering your neck for others. Why do you think we have copyright laws for intellectual property? Can you see the contradiction when we say we want a better world yet keep our intellectual property under lock and key?
So who has been writing books for betterment of humanity and doing all one could to spread them? If somehow a book comes about that makes people clever than each other then that will be taken control of by most powerful people so that they could twist it and use it for their own ends. That is what rulers and priests and money lenders have been doing. They had to do that because otherwise if each person had proper understanding of the scriptures then those people would not be able to use and abuse masses at will and in the name of very same God that wanted to make all human beings clever.
Now don’t tell me there is no evidence about rulers, priests and money lenders doing their worst against humanity at large? This is why we need to study scriptures not through eyes of rulers, priests and money lenders but through our own life experiences and real world realities including historical facts.
Once you do that you will come to realise that you have been misled about scriptures from all angles so that you serve the purpose of those who have set up a wider agenda for masses and that is what is caussing harm and destruction in the world.
We all have valid criticism of rulers, priests and money lenders etc and even secularisms and religions but to criticise scriptures is going over the top because the whole lot of us is not really aware what is really in the scriptures until and unless we study them ourselves directly not through translations and interpretations of the priests.
Can you tell me any scripture that you have studied this way and you found in it things that are anti God and anti humanity? I am studying the quran that way this is why I know what the quran says and what the kings and their priests have been teaching muslim masses in the name of quran and islam and what nonmuslims are actually criticising. So far I have not seen any criticism of the actual quranic teaching that is actually in the quran.
I have put up my interpretation of the very first surah of the quran see if you or anyone else can criticise it for being anti God or humanity? The quran is the only book in the world that introduces God to mankind the way it does and explains the whole thing in a nutshell. This book is 1500 years old. Yet other point is that it does not claim to be original ie the very first divine book instead it claims to be final divine message but is copy of the ancient divine books. It very clearly states the past books sent by God were also of similar kind. The implications of such statements are wide ranging. What humanity has been doing for last 1500 years? Trying to pervert and subvert its message through giving it bad name and abusing it. Can anyone show any real work that has been done on any of the world scriptures? None whatsoever. Muslims rulers locked up books of knowledge in their cupboards just like christian, jewish, parsi, hindu etc rulers and priests. Only authorised translations and interpretations were allowed. Had people kept alive scriptures their languages could not have become dead. Even arabs hardly know the quran because they do not have any idea of the quranic use of language. How many hindus know sanskrit and read their scriptures in their original languages? The case is same with others eg jews are still trying to revive hebrew and christians greek, syriac, aramaic and how many parsis know avesta in its original tongue? All this shows people mainly base their ideas on whatever they are told by others who themselves may not know what they are talking about.
So we must not criticise scriptures without their proper study nor spread falsehood about them because then we are bound to suffer the consequences for doing that. Misinterpretation or misrepresentation of scriptures is a very very dangerous thing to do because it has unimaginable consequences. Some of which are found in the books of history and others are before our own eyes. It is because God has designed a system that is a closed system or self sustaining. If you work against the system then system destroys you but if you work according to the system it raises you to dignified life. It is similar to touching a live wire and getting electrocuted or using electricity wisely to make life easier.
I hope you pay attention to what is said in your own time and think things through for your own good rather than looking to others for things you are supposed to be doing yourself for yourself. A person cannot be a muslim just by birth or by uttering a few words without quranic purpose in mind as far as God is concerned. This is just for organisational and administration purposes among people who claim to be muslims. You are a kafir and I am a muslim in that context but we could be exactly the same in eyes of God if we have similar mindset, attitude and behaviour. So what counts at the end of the day is what God thinks of us not what we call each other or ourselves. God does not want people to harm each other but to benefit each other.
God bless and all the best.