God, a proven fact or a mere fiction?

[Mughal1]

Re: God, a proven fact or a mere fiction?

@kprasad

Mughal1,

Argument and evidence aren’t the same thing. You can have an argument, more precisely a theory, that explains evidence. However, the evidence needs to be empirical. Because, every argument, without evidence, you can make for one deity, I can make for another. Therein lies the problem. In order for one to accept a deity, one must believe in it first! You must have faith first, which means suspension of rationalism.

Every argument you are making for the Qur’an, Christians make for the Bible, and Hindus make for the Mahabharata. I have read all three. They are all filled with violence, pillaging, war, and only demonstrate a duplicitous deity. What always interests me is that these scriptures reflect every ignorance of the people that wrote them.

Your argument about the cultural decay, really, is contra indicated by statistics. As hard as it is believe, the world is becoming a less violent place. There is less hunger in the world. There are more philanthropic organizations. This, also coincides with a decrease in global religious beliefs. As I pointed out in another thread, the largest philanthropists in the world, who have pledged to give away all their money, are all atheists. To counter this, would you say the suicide bombers in FATA are not religious enough? I think they would disagree with you. If you say they are misinterpreting their religion, how is that possible? If it’s the absolute truth, how can it be misinterpreted?

I don’t know if there is a deity, but I don’t need a deity to wish you well. I don’t need an iron age book to tell me that I should care about what happens to you, but I do.

The universe as, we know it, is 14.5 billion years old. Is there a deity in it? I don’t know. I haven’t seen evidence for one. But we do know that life in the universe isn’t limited to our little spec of dirt here, on Earth, by probability alone. In the huge expanse of time, galaxies collide, stars die, untold billions upon billions of living beings have died in cosmic calamities. Even on Earth, in our cosmically insignificantly short life span, 99% of all things that have ever existed have become extinct. All of this because some deity decided that about a 100,000 years ago it was going to designate us as important. Then why do everything else?

I don’t know if a deity exists, but since makes a deity unnecessary.

Thank you dear kprasad for sharing your thoughts. I am glad that you have reached these thoughts and have shared them and summed them up nicely.

Now here is how I think about things as per my study of things.

1)If what you say is accepted then does it not cause confusion as regard concepts themselves?

For example, how would you explain the difference between self evident facts and proven facts?

Also between testimonial proof and theoretical proof? They each prove things very differently.

Is forensic science used for testing testimonial evidence based on same idea as scientific method? If not what is the difference?

Where does science fit in all this and how will you explain and fit in all this concept of empirical evidence in there? It is because it is impossible to take them as all one and the same thing.

Term empirical evidence as a concept in my view applies both to theoretical proof as well as testimonial proof but in each case it works exactly as I have already explained.

Unless there is an alternative explanation that fits them together neatly by showing how they can work I am afraid my explanation is the only one that stands.

2. I agree with you completely as to what people make of the allegedly divine scripture and how they use them. However, does that mean only they have right to interpret the scriptures or anyone has the God given right to do so. If all of us have access to the allegedly divine scriptures then why any of us does not take the initiative to interpret them so that the truth may be discovered?

Dear brother I take it as an excuse to not to bother with doing that. It is easy for us to blame others for whatever they are doing but are we ourselves not part of everything going on in the world? Why not? Why should we let anyone get away with murder and if we did then what kind of world will come about as a result? People reach various stages in knowing things in their life time so if any of us thinks he knows anything better one must come and share it so that rest of us could learn from it and change the direction of mankind to a better goal with better terms and conditions.

I am studying the quran but I do not discount other scriptures, they have a lot of useful things just like the quran has despite not being direct word of God but the quran was not the only book sent by God. He sent his message to all nations on this earth. The gist of those messages remains there in this world even today and that in time will be proven. We hardly study our own scriptures in which we claim to believe so it will take time for mankind to see other scriptures as well. In my view they all support each other to great degree when they are interpreted in a particular way.

You say you have read scriptures, so have I but unlike you I am of the opinion they have been misinterpreted. How did I come to that conclusion? Just by studying the quran and reading the interpretations of those scriptures. The question is why they have been misinterpreted and misrepresented? It is mainly because learning process is very slow and understanding things does not come that easily on one hand and then ruling classes, priestly classes and money lenders have vested interests so all these together play a role in it. It is therefore necessary that we put our own efforts in to knowing things better.

If you have time please watch the following videos. I hope you understand hindi.

awakening with brahma kumaris shivani latest episode(gods revelations) part-29 - YouTube
awakening with brahma kumaris shivani latest episode(gods revelations) part-30 - YouTube

251 - The World According to Darwin / Total Onslaught Mini Series - Walter Veith - YouTube

regards and all the best.