Girl From Qurayesh: This is for you (and maybe for everyone else too)

Well, I assume for the last couple of weeks, you had a sort of “laid back” attitude towards what was being posted here (in Religion forum). Some excellent debates took place. Obviously there are only two major topics which go to “burning” lengths… (1) Shia-Sunni, and (2) Hindu-Muslim.

However since the last 4-5 days the atmosphere seems to have charged up a lot. Both sides have “reenforcements” (what NYA calls ‘maqnateesi’ effect) and both have now come to fore with newer arguments and lot more emotion.

While I will request both (or all) sides to please pull back a little and give breathing room to each other, I also expect your work to be cut out for you. I certainly don’t envy you your mod responsibilities.

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To all participants: I am sure you realize that by your postings here, no sunni should expect that a shia will renounce shia faith - Similarly no shia should hope that a sunni will become shia. No hindu will convert here, and no ahmadi will renounce his faith. No muslim will become murtid nor any christians will embrace Islam.

The purpose of this forum is not to lamblast those who differ from your faith. It is to share info. You can’t spoonfeed your beliefs to another. We are all mature enough to understand what we are doing.

In the end, I just pray that that Allah Talla guides all of us to stay at the right path and to prevent us from devation and to allow us to fulfill our duties for haqooq-allah and haqooq ul Ibaad (rights of humans). May Allah prevent us from harming our muslim brothers and sisters from our actions and our tongue. Ameen.

Thanks Pristine I also think we all need a break!! But alas Some people are just

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I’m not trying to make people shia here just give them Knowledge about our faith(and that we are not crazy and totally wrong and hate akll sahabas)

I hope you guys will take your own advice and have more meaningful discussions.

Jazakallah

Pristine, you are right in that there were some excellent debates recently... I genuinely found them interesting... But all that seems to have changed for the worse.

I don't think I can be bothered to come back here if people are going to get personal with me and my religion. The same goes for those muslim brothers who go out of their way to attack the beliefs of non-muslims and even their own fellow muslims.

Once a discussion here turns into a debate, it turns into a zero-sum game... One side wins only if the other side loses... it is just fruitless to engage in such a demeaning dialogue such as that. I was hoping for discussions to be mutually beneficial to everybody who took part. You are right - we had something like that recently. But some people could not just maintain that attitude and now all hell has broken loose.

I hate it when people think that they are so damn righteous and who thinks he is suddenly qualified to insult other peoples dignity.

They just don't know how wrong they are.


They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

I am glad most of you agree that a bit more restraint is probably the order of the day.

Cooldude, I checked out your other thread, and for those who missed it out in the original thread, please do check out this link. http://www.inminds.com/imam-khomeini-on-unity.html

The speech is very timely and pertinent for the participants here.

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Assalam O Alaikum!

Pristine,

Thank you for your efforts to help our Moderator. I'm sure that she appreciates your aid and will no doubt add her comments herself.

Mr. Partypooper,

There are many kinds of people in the world. They all will never see eye to eye. It is the one that can keep his/her own faith while respecting the beliefs of others that will succeed.

How will you contribute to that goal of success by leaving? Dude, don't let these things get to you.....imagine how some of us have stuck it out....sometimes we feel like nobody cares...and then we find people like you and Pristine. You guys make it all worthwhile.

U bet Pristine, we should all realise dat…


A bend in da road is not da end of da road:)
chk out ma website
http://ammars.4t.com

Muzna aunty ji, thanks.

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They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

To all participants: I am sure you realize that by your postings here, no sunni should expect that a shia will renounce shia faith - Similarly no shia should hope that a sunni will become shia. No hindu will convert here, and no ahmadi will renounce his faith. No muslim will become murtid nor any christians will embrace Islam.

In the end, I just pray that that Allah Talla guides all of us to stay at the right path and to prevent us from devation and to allow us to fulfill our duties for haqooq-allah and haqooq ul Ibaad (rights of humans). May Allah prevent us from harming our muslim brothers and sisters from our actions and our tongue. Ameen.**
[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone could have done better in stating what you've written. May Allah (SWT) show us the right path to follow in life, Ameen.

the above was orginally posted by Pristine

Thank you Pristine, and the rest of you also who have replied with the same sentiments.

You guys are right on the dot, the purpose of this forum is to share info, learn from each other, and even debate. It is NOT to indulge in personal attacks or crusades defaming another’s beliefs, values, and religion.

Muzna’s right, stick it out, sure it can seem pretty meaningless and get disheartening at times, but just imagine if everyone did that..yikes! i don’t even want to imagine wry smile…you guys DO make it worthwhile.

So chin up, shoulders back, 'n head high…'n no chickening out…smiles don’t tell me u were expecting something like ‘forward march’

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Why not?, Brother, since when did you become so smart!!, how come you suddenly think that you have the knowledge or wisdom to predict the future.

Check out this post http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/001670.html , and you’ll learn what Allah has to say about sects, also there is a hadith that brother Watcher has posted which you might wanna know.

I have discussions here so that I may learn about the Truth. Also, if I think that I am right about something I will discuss it here so that others may either learn from it or that I may correct myself.

If the shias, hindus, christians, ahmedies, etc.. here, prove to me that there religion is the Truth or if they atleast seem right, I will certainly do more research on them so that I may be guided. Believe me if there is one place I will never wanna visit, it is Hell!

Therefore, the only thing that really annoys me about people here (not that its unique to people here, it a univeral thing), is not them discussing about their religion or bashing other religions…it is ** negligence ** . Something that one employs when he/she has ‘lost’.

The funny thing is that no one ‘loses’, infact if someone ever proves me wrong, i have actually won, as I am saved from something that might have lead me to hell.

My friend your above quote encourages negligence.

AOA,
Yahya


Allah knows best…

Prince take it easy:) I think Pristine meant to say that we cannot force another person to change their beliefs, their religion; and that disrespect, criticism, and defamation are not the right approach to take if you want to invite people to your religion... If you take those few lines in the context of the entire post, i'm sure you will realize that.

La hawla wala quwata illah billahil aleeyul azeem.

prince_x, I understand what you are trying to say. To answer that I borrowed a leaf from NYA’s book and well, the first thing we must be clear is what are we doing here:

Are we

A. Preaching,
B. Fighting,
C. Learning, or
D. Discussing

All of these have different etiquettes and characteristics.

A.. A preacher must be soft spoken, and convince the audience by his actions as much as by his words, his information and his logic. He’s is not there to be convinced himself. He is authoritative in information and knows when to give up and move on to another audience (and another topic). He is not there to fight. He will never hurt his audience by his words or actions. He is there as a messanger, who delivers his message and pray for help from the Almighty in convincing the other person. They always remember that providing the information alone will not convince the other person, rather the will of the Almighty must be there to guide the deviated person. For them, Iqbal wrote “Nigah-e-mard-e-momin say badal ja’tee hain taqdeerain”.

B. A fighter comes in with rolled up sleeves (figuratively speaking); with information as his shield and words as his sword. Their misson is to slay the opponent and cry “Victory”. Else they run away (saying “You are deviated. No one can cure you”). They treat every topic as jehad. They think that every other participant is deficient in knowledge and hence, take it as their God-given responsibility to rectify the “wrong” beliefs. Some of them feel totally defensive about their own beliefs and have “aggression is the best defence” as their motto.

C. Those who are here to learn, look at a topic, do their research and ‘paste’ the opinion of a scholar whom they feel they can trust. They are the ones who ask questions and try to satisfy themselves as to what is the correct approach. They feel they are learning all the time. Mostly are one-liner types, who use

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and

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a lot.

D. The last category is the ones who feel they are mature enough to remain loyal to their own beliefs and at the same time try to get better insight into the beliefs of other people. They are not here to do holy war, rather they are here to present their own beliefs and get into the minds of the others to understand how the other is thinking. They feel they can distinguish between truth and a lie. Keep a level head, not be ruffled by attacks and may try to deflect criticism with wit and humour. They also think they know when to keep quiet.

None of these categories work in isolation. Each of us probably has a little of everything. But the trait that dominates most makes us either a preacher or a fighter; a student or a mature person. Many ppl change their traits, but once a person is labled a 'fighter; then it is quite difficult for him to become a ‘preacher’.

What is maturity? It is not that you have attained a certain age or have complete information about your beliefs and feel confident about your abilities. To me, maturity means the tact to talk to people in a way that you gain insight in how they think and then to present your opinion in a way that convinces rather than incites.

Remember, each of us feel passionate about things close to our hearts, religion is one of them. We always feel we are right in our beliefs and those who disagree are deviated/ignorant/kaffir/non-believers.

Then again we should remember that there are somethings which are suitable to certain surroundings.

For example if a shia lamblasts a sahabi in a majlis, he will be revered and appreciated and there will be those who will cry “Ya Ali Madad” and “Nara-e-Takbeer” in devotion and appreciation. However, the same utterations in a neutral surrounding will cause other participants to say “Lets kick him out of here!”. Similarly when a sunni presents his research on the deviations of shia madhab to his group of friends, they might praise him for his effort and knowledge. In a neutral surrounding, he may get a “warning for inciting trouble”.

Now tell me, out of the above 4 broad categories, which one fits you the most?

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Stay Cool. Adios!

PS. The above categories are to emphasize the purpose of this forum. Those who have the intelligence will understand without being told.

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[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited October 25, 2000).]

Very well composed message Pristine. Thank you.

Thanks Muzna. A lot of thought went into it. I hope ppl benefit from it.

Adios!

Hey Pristine, I thought I posted the post that I will paste right now earlier, I think I just wrote it in notepad and forgot to paste it so here it is:

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Pristine..sorry yaar, my mistake! Forgive me for any harsh comments

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Thankyou GFQ for helping me understand, really appreciate it.

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You are right that no one can force the other to accept his believes, I really think that we should all participate in this forum with sincere hearts and with a will of give and take.

If we expect others to be open-minded and not negligent we should be the same. It should be something like an atmosphere where we all get together inorder to seek the Truth. We should all align our objectives towards Jannah aand Eternal Bliss.

Also I would request that people here try to quote most of their stuff from the Quran. 'cause it is the word of Allah and somethimg which most of us belive in.

AOA,
Yahya

Well in reply to your current post, as I mentioned before I misinterpreted you

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and I am sorry

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.

btw…Nice post really appreciate your effort, You are right about these categories, I say I’ll probably fit into the last one.

The idea behind my reply was that if you say that no one will ever convert, in a way you are saying that no one ** should ** convert which is other words is that the posts here are worthless. This encourages people to be of the arrogant fighter type and be negligent to someelse’s views.

Arrogance and negligence are the root of disbelief as is pointed out several places in the Quran with regard to satan. They lead to envy amd opposition or a desire to defend or start a peculiar doctrine of one’s own, instead of a desire to find common grounds of belief and life, which lead to the Religion of Unity of Allah.

I know you meant otherwise, and I understand and respect your opinion too.

AOA,
Yahya

Ps. Is this really some book that NY wrote or just text from his posts?

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Allah knows best…

Wow..nice post Pristine, honest, it was really well thought out

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Prince

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Pristine, agree to you at most corners, unfortunately religion is one of those topic (others being politics and daktry) on which from a jamadaar to a samajhdaar can talk at length without holding any solid background. Unfortunately, this type of attitude is very enthusiastically cherished in our paki-desi cohort.

The reason being, we are muslims by CHANCE and not by CHOICE. If we had ever given a choice, it would have been a very different story then. This is another reason why we can’t tolerate others.

Of the four types mentioned above, Category C is the most significant one. To me only a research-oriented mind can analyze, evaluate and appreciate the matters in a better way then a non-research one. So I think one should try to observe, explore and scrutinize all the religious matters before jumping to concrete conclusions. There is a greater chance one might be wrong, even 1 part in a million. Why not think like that and re discover the faith.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited October 26, 2000).]

** Pristine, G.F.Q.,Prince_X & Zalim

Thank you for your efforts to control things which were getting out of hands.
Religion is my favourite topic because I want to learn. Believe me I have learned a lot from lectures, lessons and discussions. This is not it.I have changed my wrong beliefs and undertanding accordingly. I know that on the day of judgement I have to answer myself & mysel alone to ALLAH s.w.t.
There will be no one to help me out except the Rahma of Allah, Shafaat of Muhammad SallAllah-o- Alaihay Wasallam and my accepted good deeds and beliefs.

Watcher... Please cool down... use soft language which is a MUST for Da'aee.

Shair & Sheraz

Do not start fights. Cool down....Be soft & polite if you think you are also a Da'aee.
If not then "your Deen is for you and my Deen is for me"

Regards**


**~~~Performace of good DEEDS avoids the evil ending.~~~

He, who advises for the GOOD, is similar (in rewards)to the doer of it.**
(Sahih Al-Jami 3797 & 3399 resp.)