Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

My heart cries out.

Why Pakistan is so unfortunate?

While Indians and Chinese get the businessmen and scientists returning from US/EU,

We get Jihadists and terrorists. Even the quiet son type end up creating death and destruction in Pakistan and in the neighborhood.

Such a waste of life,

Such a shame for these people.

Pakistan is unfortunate. So unfortunate.

p.s. Mods do not treat this as an attack on Islam. Instead this one is a wakeup call for the defense of Pakistan.

Thanks for not deleting this thread.

‘My quiet son on terror charges’
By Steve Kingstone
BBC News, Alexandria, Virginia
“The last time I saw my son he was in his bedroom playing Xbox 360,” recalls 42-year-old Hassan. “The next day he just left with a group of friends, then called in the afternoon and said he was somewhere playing basketball.”

It was hardly an alarm bell, an American teenager playing computer games and basketball on a quiet weekend last November, just after Thanksgiving. But 18-year-old Aman Hassan Yemer would not return to his home in Alexandria, Virginia.

Instead, he and four friends surfaced thousands of miles away in Pakistan, where they have since been indicted on terrorism charges.

“I was just amazed by this news,” recalls Hassan, who asked the BBC not to use his full name. “He didn’t even take any luggage or clothes, so it’s kind of hard to swallow.”

This is the first interview any of the US-based relatives of the suspects has agreed to.

‘Quiet boy’

Hassan, an Ethiopian-born American citizen, insists his son is no terrorist.

“ My son has become a soccer ball between two teams - he’s in a bad, bad situation right now ”
Hassan, father of one of the detained
“My son is just a quiet, very nice Muslim,” he states, when asked whether Aman showed signs of a radical Islamist mentality. “I never, never had signs or symptoms. He’s simply a listener and follower type.”

Arrested in the north-eastern Pakistani city of Sargodha last December, the suspects were indicted on 17 March of conspiring to commit terror attacks on Pakistani soil, of funding banned jihadist groups, and of conspiring to wage war against a national ally of Pakistan, a reference to Afghanistan. They deny the charges.

An earlier police interrogation report alleged that the suspects, aged between 18 and 25, “were of the opinion that a jihad must be waged against the infidels” and that one of the accused, Ahmed Abdullah Minni, had received instructions via YouTube from a militant recruiter.

After the young Americans went missing, it emerged that one of them had left behind a video expressing radical views.

That is when their families contacted the US authorities. Later, when the families learned that their sons were staying in Sargodha, at the house of a relative of one of the group, they gave the location to the FBI.

“They thought that by going to the FBI, if their kids were in trouble the FBI could help,” explains Nina Ginsberg, an Alexandria-based lawyer representing the parents of the suspects.

“We would hope that when families have concerns, law enforcement is the appropriate place to go. In this case it was not.”

By disclosing what they knew, the parents hoped the FBI would facilitate the return of their sons to the United States. Even if that meant that they would face American justice. Instead, they now believe the FBI passed on the suspects’ location to the Pakistani police.

“We understood that the Pakistanis were unable to locate them, and could not even confirm that they had arrived in Pakistan,” says Ms Ginsberg. “And within a very short period of time after… the FBI knew where they were, they had been arrested.”

‘Torture’

The FBI declined to comment on the case, or to respond to the specific claim that its agents passed on the suspects’ whereabouts to the Pakistani police.

A spokesman for the US Attorney’s Office for the eastern district of Virginia said prosecutors were still assessing whether a crime had been committed in the United States.

THE DEFENDANTS
Umar Farooq, 24
Waqar Hussain Khan, 22
Ahmed Abdulah Minni, 20
Aman Hassan Yemer, 18
Ramy Zamzam, 22 All live within a few streets of each other in Alexandria, Virginia
The trial of the Americans commenced behind closed doors last month, and is due to resume in Sargodha on 17 April. If convicted, the defendants could face life in prison, even though the Pakistani police have publicly played down the level of threat they posed.

Following the arrests in December, a Pakistani police source told US network ABC News the young men “didn’t know the meaning of jihad”.

The police interrogation report claims that in the city of Hyderabad they were turned away from a madrassa linked to Jaish-e-Mohammed, a group classified as a terrorist organisation by the US State Department.

Back in Virginia, families of the accused insist any evidence against them must have been fabricated or obtained through torture. “I believe that,” explains Hassan, “because when you see the history of Pakistan on human rights issues, it’s the worst place in terms of treating the prisoners.”

A spokesman for the US State Department, Andy Laine, told the BBC: “We take seriously all reports of torture, and did raise these reports with the government of Pakistan,” adding that US consular officials had visited the suspects nine times in jail.

By e-mail, a Pakistani police source said the allegations had been investigated and found to be “baseless”.

But families of the accused feel betrayed by the US authorities, who they allege have placed a higher value on co-operation with Pakistan than on assessing the facts of this case. “My son has become a soccer ball between two teams,” complains Hassan. “He’s in a bad, bad situation right now.”

There remains one obvious question for the father of Aman Hassan Yemer, the alleged teenage militant. If not for jihadist purposes, why does he think his son travelled secretly and without warning to the other side of the world?

“He sent a message through the State Department saying he was sorry - that he’d just left suddenly, without thinking,” replies Hassan. “He just followed. And I don’t know how they came up with the idea of this kind of charge.”

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC News - American’s ‘quiet son’ on terrorism charges in Pakistan

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges’

Dont wail so soon. America doesnt exactly have a great track record on these arrests once the initial hype dies out.

See for example

Detroit ‘Sleeper Cell’ Prosecutor Faces Probe - washingtonpost.com

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges’

Burqa, you should really watch this documovie: The Road to Guantanamo (2006)

and then watch the interviews these men have given.. including this:

also from time to time try to read some other news instead of this bull.
for example, reply in this thread with your thoughts: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/world-affairs/416199-guantanamo-prisoners-innocent-says-bush.html

finally have some chai in your air conditioned bangla in karachi. :chai:

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

the FBI is in a Catch 22. If they do not share the info with Pak authorities they cannot get a hold of these guys; if they pass the info on Pak authorities are going to make sure that nothing that may embarrass certain level of people comes out.

Meanwhile the father of the kid is going through hell! May be this is his punishment for not ensuring the kid didn't fall into wrong company.

Should be an object lesson for all parents - gotta watch who kids associate with


The VERY same reason Indians in India are busy in "economy/development" Indians abroad bring business back to India, when Pakistanis in Pakistan are busy destroying Pakistan then why blame or whine about Pakistanis coming from abroad?

On a separate note there are tons of Pakistanis I know who bring software/IT/design business from US to Pakistan.... anymore whining?

I wonder when will you buy different brush for different people instead of using one for all.

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

^ Can you imagine someone explaining to their boss or board in the West that they decided to outsource significant work to Pakistan? I think Pakistani or even the rare Indian owned companies may be willing to take that risk but not too many non-Pakistani origin owned businesses will take that risk I think.

Or perhaps some companies from the middle-east may do that?

It is a shame though because wage levels in India have shot up and are projected to shoot up some more, making IT outsourcing and BPO that much more expensive; as well as making the divide between workers of these industries and others that much wider....an element of competition from Pakistan will actually help stabilize wages in India.

Its always the small fry that gets caught?

There are some major terrorists out there ie Tony Blair, George W Bush......or will Burqa only accept these as terrorists when the media says so?

How can anyone fault Burqa fo having such a negative image about Islam, Muslims, Pakistan and the Muslim World - what do you expect from somone who constantly reads their media?

He is brainwashed!

AW, outsourcing in the initial phases is done via "trusted men" in the company's middle-upper management.

The only mantra for the initial steps is simple. You get called in to the CEO office and asked a simple question. "Can you get it done in time?" and then perhaps "What will be the cost savings".

American CEO's first priority is always "to get the job done". For that the can go to any country or the region in the world. The generally do not care about the religion or system of government or other shenanigans.

Once this seed is planted in a country with cheap but hardworking labor, and the word gets out, then it really depends how big the outsourcing tree gets in that country.

That's where the local culture and stability situation comes into the picture.

India has 20-30 times more middle-upper level managers in the US compared to Pakistan.

So the initial seed projects were also 20-30 times more.

However China has 1000 times more middle-upper level managers compared to Indians,

So they take 1000 times more (size, value etc. ) outsourcing compared to India.

But both China and India are beaten by the number of pro-Israel managers. Thus their outsourcing goes straight to Israel where they can show a comparable cost.

And then comes the big hitters, the Irish-decent managers in the USA. They beat all the rest in the world, including Chinese, Indians, Israelis, Philippino, Pakistanis etc.

Hopefully now you understand the concept of "seeds" for outsourcing.

For Pakistanis the problem is that our UK/US settled brethren get under the shoes of Arab-Americans and thus they become pan-Islamists instead of becoming pro-Pakistanis.

And hence our fate,

That we get loser terrorists heading back from US/UK like these 5 criminals and that other one called Daaaaktar Afia.

It is just our fate. That's all.

No patriotism for Pakistanis. We unfortunately are "Muslims" first. We won't establish the core of Islam like speaking truth, giving others respect, and being honest.

Instead we have become the ditto copy of Somalians, Yemenis and worse the Afghanis.

As you see that Somalian youth is also supplying terrorists to their homeland, and so are Yemenis and Afghanis, And suadis. etc. etc.

And thus the seed of outsourcing in Pakistan has so far grown to be a weakling tree sapling instead of becoming a giant sequoia like it did in China, India, Israel, and Ireland.

Dude the only reason is people in pakistan carry their religion everywhere from bedroom , toilet to business.
No country can be successfull if its so much obsessed with the religion.I am from bhopal and it has more then 40% muslim population.I know atleast 60-70 muslim families but i havnt seen anyone so obsessed as i see here on gs. If you go to religious forum people are so obessed about everything. I have seen post related from eating habits,matsurbation to morning sex in that forum.

[quote="burqaposhx, post:33, topic:218879"]

My heart cries out.

Why Pakistan is so unfortunate?

While Indians and Chinese get the businessmen and scientists returning from US/EU,

We get Jihadists and terrorists. Even the quiet son type end up creating death and destruction in Pakistan and in the neighborhood.

Such a waste of life,

Such a shame for these people.

Pakistan is unfortunate. So unfortunate.

p.s. Mods do not treat this as an attack on Islam. Instead this one is a wakeup call for the defense of Pakistan.

Thanks for not deleting this thread.

'My quiet son on terror charges'
By Steve Kingstone
BBC News, Alexandria, Virginia
"The last time I saw my son he was in his bedroom playing Xbox 360," recalls 42-year-old Hassan. "The next day he just left with a group of friends, then called in the afternoon and said he was somewhere playing basketball."

It was hardly an alarm bell, an American teenager playing computer games and basketball on a quiet weekend last November, just after Thanksgiving. But 18-year-old Aman Hassan Yemer would not return to his home in Alexandria, Virginia.

Instead, he and four friends surfaced thousands of miles away in Pakistan, where they have since been indicted on terrorism charges.

"I was just amazed by this news," recalls Hassan, who asked the BBC not to use his full name. "He didn't even take any luggage or clothes, so it's kind of hard to swallow."

This is the first interview any of the US-based relatives of the suspects has agreed to.

'Quiet boy'

Hassan, an Ethiopian-born American citizen, insists his son is no terrorist.

“ My son has become a soccer ball between two teams - he's in a bad, bad situation right now ”
Hassan, father of one of the detained
"My son is just a quiet, very nice Muslim," he states, when asked whether Aman showed signs of a radical Islamist mentality. "I never, never had signs or symptoms. He's simply a listener and follower type."

Arrested in the north-eastern Pakistani city of Sargodha last December, the suspects were indicted on 17 March of conspiring to commit terror attacks on Pakistani soil, of funding banned jihadist groups, and of conspiring to wage war against a national ally of Pakistan, a reference to Afghanistan. They deny the charges.

An earlier police interrogation report alleged that the suspects, aged between 18 and 25, "were of the opinion that a jihad must be waged against the infidels" and that one of the accused, Ahmed Abdullah Minni, had received instructions via YouTube from a militant recruiter.

After the young Americans went missing, it emerged that one of them had left behind a video expressing radical views.

That is when their families contacted the US authorities. Later, when the families learned that their sons were staying in Sargodha, at the house of a relative of one of the group, they gave the location to the FBI.

"They thought that by going to the FBI, if their kids were in trouble the FBI could help," explains Nina Ginsberg, an Alexandria-based lawyer representing the parents of the suspects.

"We would hope that when families have concerns, law enforcement is the appropriate place to go. In this case it was not."

By disclosing what they knew, the parents hoped the FBI would facilitate the return of their sons to the United States. Even if that meant that they would face American justice. Instead, they now believe the FBI passed on the suspects' location to the Pakistani police.

"We understood that the Pakistanis were unable to locate them, and could not even confirm that they had arrived in Pakistan," says Ms Ginsberg. "And within a very short period of time after... the FBI knew where they were, they had been arrested."

'Torture'

The FBI declined to comment on the case, or to respond to the specific claim that its agents passed on the suspects' whereabouts to the Pakistani police.

A spokesman for the US Attorney's Office for the eastern district of Virginia said prosecutors were still assessing whether a crime had been committed in the United States.

THE DEFENDANTS
Umar Farooq, 24
Waqar Hussain Khan, 22
Ahmed Abdulah Minni, 20
Aman Hassan Yemer, 18
Ramy Zamzam, 22 All live within a few streets of each other in Alexandria, Virginia

Many of the posters (no names named) are in fact settled in US/UK and happen to be "born again / evangelical Muslims" or BAMs, and thus they share the traits of extremism with the "born again / evangelical Christians) to say the least.

However BAMs have one up on BACs.

BAMs were evangelized by the Middle Eastern Ulema who in turn are the ditto copies of the medieval Christian ulema.

thus the pakkah Muslims of the US/UK are BAMs with extra nutzy thoughts directly linked with the medieval Christians and pagans.

Otherwise why Pakistanis who have their OWN country would blast their fellow countrymen, unless off course the BAMs were aping the Palestinians without ever thinking that Palestinian struggle is against the loss of their land. Which is not the case in Pakistan. But BAMs still ape them without ever paying attention to the historical context.

Sorry to use these are the strong words, but that's what I saw during repeated visits to the UK/US mosques and informal meetings with the pakka Muslims there.

So in some sense many Pakka Muslim posters (even though a minority) in the larger context of Overseas Pakistanis, form a much more vocal group.

p.s. Not to distract from the main thread,

I have also met born again Hindu brahmins in the US/UK and they too are a bit weird. They typically look down upon the Hindu brahmins living in India. Why? because they feel that brahmins living in India are slowly losing their strong faith.

So perhaps many religious groups other than Muslims could or perhaps have succumbed to the Born-AGAIN-xyzabc. And you can fill xyzabc with the religion of your choice.

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

[note] Moving it to PA since the topic has to do with Pakistan. [/note]

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

what you say about the 'seeds' required from upper management sponsors is true and I agree. But even the smaller proportion of Pakistan origin upper management execs will hesitate or outright avoid pushing for such outsourcing (unless they have controlling inetest) - because their own credibility will be in line. They didn't get to be senior execs by being emotional.

Re: Gift from American Muslims - quiet son on terror charges'

speaking of outsourcing, I was able to grow an existing presence in Pakistan for a company back in earlier part of the decade, and the focus was to be a gateway to middle east, costs were low, skills were available, english fluency was not hard to find and people would work well dealing with middle eastern cultural stuff both with visits there or remote work. Still doing it. it was not outsourcing though, but growth of a Pakistani subsidiary and giving it a regional role.

My last company which is also a multinational has presence in Pakistan but more for Pakistan's own local needs, while there has been significant talk again and again to utilize Pakistan as a gateway to middle east and central asia, it always stalled at the law and order situation and concerns with data centers and ability to deliver time sensitive services in an atmosphere of pahya jaam hartaals and bombings. I was asked my view a couple of times and I had to give an honest pros and cons. If my job depended on making the right call, then the recommendation would be to wait.

If things there improve and local companies step up to the plate, then there is demand, if it can go to vietnam, it can go to Pakistan. of all places it can go to pakistan from China and India as a secondary outsourcing let alone outsourcing from europe or north america.

but situation at ground needs to be sorted.