Ghairat

I had a very interesting conversation with the cab driver who drove me to my office today. I’m still thinking about some things he said.

He was an old gentleman, a Pathan originating from Malakand, tanned to the core, signifying that he had worked hard in life. He had worked in 33 countries and was now driving a cab in Karachi. Has two sons and one daughter living in Karachi. He was using some difficult english words in his conversation too, and his Urdu had only a very slight trace of Pashtoon accent, yet he spoke perfect Pashto.

Since I don’t usually talk to cab drivers, I was lost in my own thoughts when he suddenly asked me where I was going. I told him I was going to my office. He said, oh, a person should always work in life and I agreed with him. He said though that in Pakistan the day had still not come when women can be equal to men. I objected and said, babaji aisi baat nai hae boht see jaghon pe aurtein aur mard barabri se kaam kartay haen, thinking about my own workplace. He said the problem with Pakistani women is that they are not hardworking. I said again babaji we Pakistani women are so hardworking. We work in the fields in the villages and in the cities it is the women who are topping the academic boards in Matric, FA, BA, BSc, MBBS. He said yes maybe but Pakistani women are not used to tough physical work such as operating machines. I said maybe. He was old so didn’t want to debate his opinions too much, wanted more to hear his views and learn from his vast experience in life.

Then we stopped at a traffic light. Some political personality was visiting. He said, in America even for Bush they don’t stop the traffic, and in Pakistan even for a maamuli wazeer we block the roads.

Then he said my daughter is very intelligent but we did not let her study after matric [grade 10th]. He had given permission but he was abroad and his father did not allow her to study further. Even though she scored 80% A-1 division in Science.

In their village near Malakand, when women wanted to go beyond primary schooling, a tribal jirga was convened to decide if they should be allowed. I said babaji in Islam women and men are supposed to gain education, its required for them. He said, yes, but who cares about Islam when it comes to GHAIRAT? Nobody cares about Islam. However, he said, the biggest beghairti is not to believe in your own izzat, not trust your own daughters. I said haanji babaji you are right. He said Pakistan cannot progress until the Maulvis exist. All molvis should be shot. I remained silent.

Papa had settled with him when I was getting on the cab that I would pay him Rs. 80. When we got near the office, we missed the curb he had to take to get me into the office building. I guess being a pathan he got emotional and too absorbed in his talk. So he said, koi baat nai hamara kaam manzil tak ponhchana hae, and he had to drive extra. In the end his taxi meter showed Rs. 91.5. When I gave him a 100 rupee note, he said he would keep only Rs. 80, because baat zabaan ki hae.

Interesting chit chat...

All that the guy said was true upto the extent that all moulvis should be shot...

I have no clue with what reference he said that, but that was a very ignorant remark coming from someone who was making such wise statements as equal opportunity and education for all...

What I don't get is, why does anyone who wants progress go after the Moulvis?

The Moulvis have never been in power, so the condition of Pakistan that is today could in no way be attributed to their doing...If at all, if there's one redeeming quality about a Moulvi is that he's honest...No matter how ignorant, how uneducated or illiterate a Moulvi is, he would not resort to underhandedness...

The most damage that had been done to Pakistan since its creation has been done by the secular leaders coming from well off families and being highly educated...They give the term 'Parha likha jaahil' a new meaning...

The bullheadedness of a Moulvi is what people dislike the most, but in reality, that bullheadedness is what Pakistan precisely needs...Every Moulvi is sick and tired of corruption and would want nothing more than to eliminate this system of corruption so as not to be involved in bribery and kickbacks for fear of lanfding in hellfire...

You should have asked him why he wanted the Moulvis shot and not the corrupt leaders and officials...

Re: Ghairat

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by irem: *
*
....the biggest beghairti is not to believe in your own izzat, not trust your own daughters.**
[/QUOTE]

words of wisdom :)

True I don't understand why he was bitter against the maulvis alone. Unless by maulvi he means people who are sticklers for cultural practices which in actuality have nothing to do with religion but just to stay in control of others lives and be the boss these so called maulvis incorporate such practices into religion making others lives difficult and have things go theie own way. A lot of our cultural practises have nothing to do with religion yet people follow them more strictly than they do religious ones for example the jirga story related by him. How does ghairat ever clash with religion? Islam doesn't make any such thing compulsory for us that would go against our ghairat. Its the lack of courage that leads people to conform to customs sometimes. In this specific example if it wasn;t for the fear of going against the tribes tradition and the 'loag kya kahain gay' factor I don;t think people would be looking at jirgas for permission to go and make their lives better. Ghairat plays no role here.

I think it’s a common practice in Pakistan to blame our-non-practice of Islam on the Molvi. FF, you are absolutely on the mark, we in Pakistan are more afraid of "loag kya kahain gay" than any thing else, especially when it come to our religion. I always think that, the people who are against these molvis should try to become one, so we can have a new breed of molvis.

Very right Minime. We need educated maulvis who are free from cultural fetters. In our kind of societies feedback from the people around us is immediate and that is what we seem to care more for. Retribution from Allah comes later, not many of us are wise enough to recognise it in this life and unfortunately we forget to keep reminding ourselves of it even though it is the only thing that should matter.

as i almost always try to point out, its not the masjid imaams that we want to turn into rulers, but what we need is to turn the rulers into imaams....

as allama iqbal said....
qoum kia hai, qoumon ki imaamat kia hai
kia samjhein gay becharay do rakaat ke imam

that said, i think moulvi-bashing has become another cultural norm in our society....

Why is 'ghairet' such a big deal in Pakistan. I think it is OK to be a little bayghairet sometimes. Everybody has had those days where you just wana be a little baysharam. I think we can all become good human beings in Pakistan if we become 50% bayghairet.

I can't wait to see those days when it would be fashionable to be bayghairet. You would hear Aunties saying, "kitna acha rishta hay, ladka educated hay, job bhi hay aur tau aur thoRRa saa baighairet bhi hay".

^ fungi dude good luck getting married :hehe:

I think it is relatively easy to generalize about our Molvis given their recent history. In the 80s, and well into the 90s (and even today), the sermons coming out of Mosques would make Hitler come across a most decent human being. Even today, anti-Semitism and other garbage that comes out of Molvis’ mouths leave a lot to be desired. Because of this and other knuckleheadedness that these religionists are capable of doing, it is not surprising to hear comments like the ones made by that Pathan cabbie. Who outlawed music in Peshawar? Or sale of Indian Videos, etc. If you let them have their way, the day might not be far when a Black Chadoor will become mandatory (just as is in Iran, and Saudi Arabia) and bread for men.

Politics have no place inside a prayer house, and Molvi has no business inside people’s home. Until that distinction is made, we ain’t gonna get anywhere. I don’t want no Molvi to tell me what is right and what is wrong. Allah Tabarak Wa Tala has given me a water melon to decide that for myself.

Fungo, there is no more room for you to grow any more begharait.

As you said its really very easy to generalize about our molvis. At least they don’t hide behind their secular beards and follow any religious agenda. They are open in their contempt of the Jews. Either it’s based on historic facts or the divine revelations, but they don’t tone it down based on real politik. I think secularist are the most confused people around, they want to take the religion out of every thing except them selves. It creates a phenomenon like Hyde and Jackel. When a secularist elected leaders (e.g. Adolf the "Hitler") wants to punish a group of people belonging to a particular "religion" even then they don’t want to recognize that the war had religious undertones. When American army in Iraq fighting for the sake of "freedom" and "justice" pray to protect the kingdom of the lord, I wonder which kingdom of the lord they are fighting for? and who do you think the kingdom of Lord belongs to? Our molvis? In our modern day and age even if you have thousand masks of secularism upon you, even then it’s hard to disguise the role of religion in all the current conflicts of the world. What the secularist have been doing is that they have been following their religious agendas in disguise of secularism. So in comparison to that at least the molivis are not munifiqs.

The same Allah puts the responsibility of Amer bil marrof wa Nahi ann al munkiker on all the melons, and this concept has no limitations and it doesn’t stops at any masjid and parliament.

I think its a breed of confused muslims who were brought about by the nation state concept who cry for the secularist muslim nations. The day we take Islam out of governing, it will lead us to dictatorships on scales worse than what we have witnessed in WWII.

LAjawab ...the reason why some ignorant ppl are against ulema is when they see hypocrasy of political moulvis......ppl normally dont give any room for mullah to do nany mistake ..in thier opinion mullah should be some ideal person ..i rember in some thread a lady commented on a fellow who was chatting on msn by saying wo darhi wala that .......this attitude of not thinking mullahs as human beings prone to mistake is crust of this attitude....

waisay MOulana mufti mahmood nay kaha tha ....siyasat ulema kay liye nahi rahi sara ilm khatam ho jata hay

wasalam

Minime Bhaijan, please comment on the following. I lifted it from Pak Affairs posted by Harris. I agree with you that there is no difference between a Molvi and Hitler. We are in agreement on that. Jazakalla.

Do you think that Qazi sahib is a Bhanda?


i just received this in an email. its an article written by one Mohammed Shehzad in The Friday Times June 3 2004 issue. i tried looking it up on the TFT website, but its being updated right now for the new 11 June issue that will be out tomorrow.

i cant believe this. what an 'honest' man he is i think fazlurRehman even exceeds qazi sahibs wisdom...and these apes are hopefuls to the highest office and are actually hell bent on overthrowing any govt to enforce their rule. they run the opposition, only as they are not in power, not because the oppositions role is to keep an eye on the govt and criticize its moves for better performance.

if qazi, who claims to be a religous honest principled man is this way, how moral less are the other politicians who want to rule over us under a 'democracy'?

read on here it is:

The Friday Times: June 3, 2004

Qazi Sahib is hoist by his own petard

By Mohammad Shehzad

A foreign diplomat put the redoubtable Qazi Hussain Ahmad on the
spot at a social gathering recently when Qazi Sahib tried to give
the 'listeners in the circle' an impression that India, Israel and
the US had coerced the Dutch government to ban his entry into
Europe.

"Qazi saheb aap ghalat biyani say kaam lay rahay hain!" [You
are misrepresenting the facts] said the foreigner who spoke fluent
Urdu.
"No conspiracy, but your own thoughtless statements are
responsible for it," the foreigner said.
"What statements? I am totally innocent," said Qazi Sahib.
"You are again misrepresenting the facts. Your statements are
not innocuous. They are venomous and hypocritical. You attack the US
and then seek a US visa for your son [Asif Lucman Qazi]. Why did you
send your son to study in an evil environment?"
The diplomat took out a diary from his jacket and started
reading.
"In an interview with Ghazwa, May 6 [Lashkar-e-Taiba's
publication] you threatened Prince Karim Aga Khan of dire
consequences. You said 'If Aga Khan tries to interfere in our curriculum, I will make his end miserable. In fact, his end would be
even worse than that of the Ahmadis.' "
"'We will oppose Musharraf's views on blasphemy law and hudood ordinance tooth and nail', you told Nawa-i-Waqt [May 17],"
the diplomat said.
"'We will put up vigorous opposition to any efforts aimed at
amending the hudood ordinance or the blasphemy laws. We will not
allow the US agenda to be imposed on the people', you said it to
Jang,May 18."
"You said that 'the US and Europe are trying to pervert
Pakistan's Islamic culture through agents like Musharraf. They want
to introduce incest here. We will fight these conspiracies, 'you
said this to Ummat, May 17. How could you make such an outrageous
allegation? Your country encourages powerful people to gang rape
innocent women. This does not happen in the West."
"'The US is the biggest terrorist in the world. The alliance
of Israel and India under the US evil leadership is a worrisome
matter for the Muslim world. The US is acting like a frenzied
elephant. When an elephant becomes frenzied, it is shot. It is time
to shoot the US,' you said this in Gilgit and it was reported by
Ummat, May 17. Do you want me to further quote you Qazi Sahib?" the
foreigner asked.
Qazi was shocked. 'I never meant them. These statements were
for the public. Don't take them so seriously,' Qazi tried to defend
himself.
'Now you are admitting that you are a hypocrite. These are so
inflammatory that they could provoke one to kill the Americans and
Europeans. A leader of your stature should be careful. You have to
improve your reputation. Most of your enlightened people recognise
you as the Bal Thakaray of Pakistan. You have created trouble for
yourself, not the US, Israel and India. Khuda Hafiz Qazi Sahib,' the
foreigner said and left the circle.
Qazi Sahib too took his leave, lest...
That was the second time I saw Qazi Sahib so helpless.
Earlier, he was grilled by Liz Doucet in BBC's Hardtalk He told Liz
that he had nothing to do with Gulbadin Hekmatyar. But this lasted
only as long as Ms Doucet began reading out his old statements
praising Hekmatyar to the skies.
Our politicians and religious figures do not understand how
seriously the diplomatic community takes their statements. Every
foreign mission maintains a file on every figure that matters. Our
politicians keep forgetting that they can fool the public but not
the diplomatic community.
A highly places source informed TFT it was Qazi Sahib's
outburst against Prince Karim Aga Khan that played a major role in
blocking his entry into Europe. It is tragic that our politicians
love talking nonsense without realising its consequences.


May 28 - June 03, 2004 - Vol. XVI, No. 14

Ohh that must have been a interesting moment for you.

[QUOTE]
He said, yes, but who cares about Islam when it comes to GHAIRAT? Nobody cares about Islam. However, he said, the biggest beghairti is not to believe in your own izzat, not trust your own daughters.
[/QUOTE]

This is very true, in our areas people would go over anything for Izzat.
Thanx for sharing. ;)

AS do you believe Islam can cause you disgrace?

I think the real danger is in how everyone is so blindly willing to accept anything said by a 'religous' person as truth no matter how ridiculous or hateful their words are.

One should always look at the motive behind the person's words.

Sadly most 'religous' people I've come across do tend to have alot of really twisted views and praticises which they have the nerve to justify by religion. It's even more ridiculous when I find myself having to explain basic common sense, morality, and compassion to these very same people. They may have more religous 'knowledge' then me but they seemed to have learned nothing but how to use it to justify their own bigotry, hatred and chauvanisitic views.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waqas72: *
I think the real danger is in how everyone is so blindly willing to accept anything said by a 'religous' person as truth no matter how ridiculous or hateful their words are.

One should always look at the motive behind the person's words.

Sadly most 'religous' people I've come across do tend to have alot of really twisted views and praticises which they have the nerve to justify by religion. It's even more ridiculous when I find myself having to explain basic common sense, morality, and compassion to these very same people. They may have more religous 'knowledge' then me but they seemed to have learned nothing but how to use it to justify their own bigotry, hatred and chauvanisitic views.
[/QUOTE]

Waqas, I would be most interested in reading these so-called 'twisted views' that you have heard...What did you hear that found 'twisted'?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Femme Fatale: *
AS do you believe Islam can cause you disgrace?
[/QUOTE]

NO way. Mashallah Islam is the best way of solving matters. It is our honor too.
Bro this aint got anything with Islam. This honor thing is tradition related, we don't have to bring Islam in.

Re: Ghairat

And that is the bottom line :> Pathan bhai is known for his zaban :k: