Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
Actually yes.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
assuming you are right and the ‘kids’ in question are 16 yr old. can they not be militants being trained?
is being a 16 yr old and being a militant mutually exclusive?
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
If there were people in madrassa that early, there can be no doubt of madrassa mysterious nature. I do not think that any madrassa anywhere in Pakistan starts that early neither children go that early to madrassa.
As some claim that innocent children died and they are from Bajaur, then why they were in Madrassa at 5.00 AM in the morning (more then an hour even before fajr time) and not at home?
Note: No one could be studying there at that time (5.00 am) because an hour before fajar (that was much after 6.00 am) is still dark.
Regardless, earliest any madrassa could start has to be after fajr prayer, and that is only if madrassa is part of a mosque (and this madrassa was not part of any mosque).
What I know, this madrassa was not even boarding madrassa where children from far away places (again not from Bajaur) could be living.
Thus all evidence (even if a person does not know anything other then can use some intelligence) shows that those killed were not children from Bajaur gone to study there, but were people of mysterious criminal origin, else no innocent person should have been there at 5 am in the morning]
Excellent points! Only militant-type or subservise activity is usually carried out in the dark hours, not teaching of school children.
So far we have seen NO pictures of any children's dead bodies, or their coffins. In fact we have seen no one i.e. parents, waving around pictures of allegedly dead children. We all know that militant movements the world over are quick to parade pictures of their "martyrs". There is no pictorial proof or otherwise in this case at all, and taken along with your astute observation as to why we would have "children" being taught at 5am in the morning, the tribals allegations are being exposed as completely false.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
Fraudz and Silly Billy: thanks.
Captain1:
[quote]
Does any "training" take place during dark hours? Mysterious indeed, also mysterious is blocking of all media from the place after bombing.
[/quote]
Training can take place during all hours, be it legal or illegal, depending on training requirements.
If training that can be done at night or day, they are usually done during day (dark hours are considered for rest). Nevertheless, illegal and criminal activities and trainings, like giving instructions and preparing criminals, terrorists, and law-breakers needs cover of darkness (last part of night, 2 am to 6 am, when sunrise is at around 6.30 am, is best time), as people think that day exposes them to law enforcement agencies. People (and law enforcers) are awake and walking around, thus these criminals and terrorists can get spotted easily during day.
No innocent person should have been in that madrassa during dark hours of 5 am (when sunrise in those areas is around 6.30 am). If anyone thinks that those killed were innocent kids, then they should tell why they were in madrassa in that large number.
[Dark hours are for criminals and day hours are for innocents. Only criminals use darks hours, taking training and instructions in cover of darkness]
As for blocking the media: It is propaganda and ridiculous claim (especially by opposition immoral politicians and their goons) when all of us seen even TV camera in Bajaur while people body were gathered from that madrassa. Media was there early enough to telecast dead body coming out of madrassa, how can they be not there?.
Nevertheless, it is different matter that the area is lawless and no one can guarantee the security of anyone going there (be it journalists), hence any person can go there on their own risk. When Al-qaida activists can go and stay there, many afghan Taliban could get there and find refuge, who stop journalist to go there? If journalists want security and that military escort them to go there and report, that is impossible (that area with many Al-qaida terrorists and Taliban is war zone even for Pak military).
Pakistan media is fortunate that government had given them such freedom that they could say or write whatever they like (freedom to Pakistan media is much better then even this forum, where moderators delete what they do not like or even ban people without justification, at their whim).
Just imagine that there was a major earthquake in Pakistan on 28th December 1974 (Patan area, Hazara with magnitude 6.2) when thousands died (officially 5000 but knowing those days, it could be 20 to 30 thousands) and Pakistan received lot of aid (especially from Arab countries, most were stolen), but media was so controlled that few Pakistanis even know about that earthquake. This time everyone knew when earthquake happened in Kashmir-Pakistan (magnitude 7.5) with media full of it, courtesy of present government freedom to media.
[Rumour is that millions of dollars went to Z A Bhutoo foreign accounts from those unaccounted money from Arab countries that Bhutto children fought for in France after Bhutto death. Distribution of Bhutto ill-gotten wealth caused split and mistrust amongst his children, especially BB and her brothers. WallahAalam]
Same earthquake affected Indian Kashmir too but most Indians are unaware of that. On 26th January 2001, a devastating earthquake hit Gujrat- India (magnitude 7.9 on Richter scale), with huge losses (officially 20000 people died and over 200000 injured but real death and injured could be even 2 to 5 times that. Estimated figure is that over 40 million people affected). Indian government mostly suppressed the news, and media obeyed.
Rape, attrocities, and mishandling of poor by rich and influential was norm before Musharraf regime though very few if any news use to come in media, neither majority people knew much (hence anything that comes in news these days, people start thinking that its new that is happening in Pakistan). Today, such events find a place in media more often as press is free.
Thousands of Bengali killed in East Pakistan during Yahya rule (most Pakistanis knew little because media was controlled).
Thousands killed in Balochistan (both baloch and army) during Z A Bhutto rule and operation lasted from 1773 to 1977 (most Pakistanis knew little becuase media was controlled).
Thousands of Sindhis killed in interior Sindh during Zia rule, when Zia decided to crush PPP in Sindh (most Pakistanis knew little becuase media was controlled).
Thousands of Muhajirs killed in Karachi during Bai-Nazeer and Nawaz rule (especially Bai-Nazeer) when these two thugs tried to crush MQM in Karachi (little known to many outside Karachi, even though Karachi has plenty media muscle).
Even though all above killing was illegal, media was silent about that, because of media control. Now, few terrorist killed in tribal area and it is all over media, what a freedom :). Obviously, if government lets media to report, means they have nothing to hide, else no one would have heard anything.
Note: During Z A Bhutto time, most member of parliament had two places, either on government bench or in prison (if not killed), and no one use to bother. Zia was less vindictive and wicked then Bhutto, still victimise his opponents and many spent time in prison. Now, since most opposition politicians are free to spread their lies (propaganda), they are trying all what they can do. That is what freedom of press brings and that is what we are having. So, one should not cry about freedom of press in Pakistan.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
agrred, but would like to add a few points..
Dark hours training is is given out in military as well, I mean especially for special services, commandos, seals, SAS types. No reason why night time infiltration or activities training could not be occuring.
also..maybe the cover of dark was used by militants to do their planning, gatherings and all, would be harder to do with real students in school. I mean no one to really check up on them at 5 a.m. and errr even though its dark outside they could have had light inside to train ppl in all kindsa crap.
kinda like a militant nightschool
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
is being a 16 yr old and being a militant mutually exclusive?
can 16 yo be not innocent enough and not eligible for 'trial'? I have not seen a single photo yet of them getting trained with weapons, what does that tell you? the weapon burnt and melted with the fuel of missile a la 911?
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
what was the time difference between launched missile and people taking out the dead-bodies?
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
Fraudz:
^^
You are right. Many military and other training need hour of darkness for proper environment. That is why I wrote that training depends on its requirement. Further, I used the word ‘IF’ training can be given during day or night they are usually given during day (if that training is legal) but it is obvious that people in madrassa were not having any legal training or were not gathered at madrassa premises for legal activities.
**
Captain1:**
Obviously media got there at similar time people got there to get the body out to telecast what happening (maybe little time here or there). As for people taking out dead bodies, I expect that they must have started doing that after fajar when they realised what happened. Thus, that could be the earliest for media too. I am sure it is ridiculous to expect that media would have got there at 5 am.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
The head of this school/madrassa or rather terrorist training camp was the deputy leader of the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi (TNSM) Maulvi Liaqat, who was killed in the bombing along with his key henchman.
In case anyone missed the fact, the Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Muhammadi (TNSM) openly preaches hatred of Shia Muslims, and has been involved in sectarian killings for many, many years.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
I understand that, and it is a crime for which he could've been easily prosecuted, no? We have lots of other hate preachers outside tribal areas, what has been done?
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
Violence breeds violence.
If you are fighting a war. if you are bombing your enemy. You should expect some bombs as well. that is very natural and very justified.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
I have personally met two individuals from Bajawar and they have confirmed that most of the students were lesser than 15 and believe me they were not militants.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
I have personally met three individuals from Bajaur and they have confirmed that most of the people were over 20 and believe me they were Shia-hating militants, and a lot of them foreigners.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
Well, I am not among the liers. Moreover, the madrassahs in frontier are from different from yours in Punjab, who normally engender sectarian hatred etc.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
:CareBear: not per the list govt published.
Re: Get ready for suicide attacks: tribal cleric
I have personally met two individuals from Bajawar and they have confirmed that most of the students were from the planet Vulcan...