Re: Geeta’s Return
Ask the family who had to spend a night in Mumbai on streets with 3 small girls. They’ll give you better answer. 
Re: Geeta’s Return
I don’t see your point. Of course that family will tell me that. But to boil it all down to a few incidents probably is not very prudent.
One can probably find instances of generosity on both sides of the border. The accident of being born a few yards on either side of a border probably does not decide generosity levels and heart size.
Maybe it’s just me. And you are probably correct.
Re: Geeta’s Return
Ironic how someone’s suffering is termed as just few incident(s) when it doesnt suit our opinion..
Re: Geeta’s Return
Classic case of viewing incidents with an agenda.
Re: Geeta's Return
Seems like the Geeta has refused to recognize the family that was supposedly talked about as her parents. Now its back to square one for her. Hope she finds her family soon.
Re: Geeta's Return
Seems like the Geeta has refused to recognize the family that was supposedly talked about as her parents. Now its back to square one for her. Hope she finds her family soon.
let's wait for DNA test.
Re: Geeta’s Return
First of all, thanks for the compliments. You are a nice addition to this forum as well.
Secondly, any appreciation in favour of your country does not mean “hatred” for India. Indian posters and Indiaphile posters on this forum needlessly get so defensive and insecure the moment Pakistanis speak in favour of their country. Every little criticism on India should not be seen as ‘hatred’ because hatred is a really strong word and the more you overuse it for trivial things, the more you desensitised the readers.
Thirdly, do you remember the the recent example of India returning the dead mutilated and tortured body of a Pakistani man who accidentally crossed border six years ago? So yes, expect Pakistanis to be disgusted at India’s barbaric treatment of Pakistanis while Pakistan has an extensive record of releasing all Indian fishermen in massive numbers.
Fourthly, the way India publicly humiliated PCB chief, stopped our artists from performing, stopped our kabadi, karate, and hockey team from participating in international events, the way Pakistani family of six with elderly and young kids spent night on the streets in Mumbai, the way Indian police violently abused two Muslim youth and asked them to ‘go back to Pakistan’, the way Indian Army killed two Pakistani chlildren on the border the same day Geeta was returned. Do not be surprised to see if some Pakistanis do take the liberty to say their country has a much bigger heart and much better character than the what enemies’ propagate.
This whole wishy washy preaching of hippie love for India at all cost is a perfect way dumb down the Pakistanis so they are in no position to raise genuine criticism against India which may put some pressure on her to fix her nasty bullying behaviour towards her neighbours.
Re: Geeta's Return
Justified critcism of ANY country should not be taken as hatred. Some throw around words such as (Insert your favorite country)philes, self loathing towards their country men when their country men find something positive to say about their "enemies".
Turning positive events such as this into a chest - thumping and heart size - measuring opportunity itself is an indication of a not so big heart.
Re: Geeta's Return
I am pretty certain Indian government, state departments knew about Geeta's return. Yet Indian Army decided to open up unprovoked firing on our borders which martyred two Pakistani children. What kind of message they were sending?
Pakistanis are not bunch of undignified and heartless and shameless buffoons, you are living in fool's land if you think Pakistani public's sentiments are not seriously hurt when they see scenes of jubilation in India for Geeta return, and funeral of two young Pakistani children killed by India police - in the same news.
Heck with putting up with this whole 'baghal me churri moun me we're friends, we're friends' double act bull crap. The onus is on Indian state to fix its nasty violently hateful self instead of expecting Pakistanis to ignore all of that and preach message of hippie love. The day Indian state would fix its character and develop a heart, Pakistanis may stop pointing towards Indian hypocrisy and heartlessness.
Re: Geeta's Return
^ Sadly, staying up-to-date on current events is time-consuming, which is an explanation and not an excuse. That coupled with the assumption most people have (and I think Americans are a great example - and those are the locals and not the ABCDs) is that news channels/newspapers are gospel, that journalism and journalists are unbiased and document "facts" and that journalism and journalists operate with integrity.
No one really looks to see the bias or agenda underlying the media reports. Think FOX News and CNN and their slant on world events and then read non-US papers and read their telling of the same "factual" events. Truth has become relative, and most people don't know or make the effort to know how to separate truth from fiction or biased/incomplete truths.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and information on this topic - it does help to dispel the half-truths and makes us more vigilant about reporting standards.
Not your average Joes, but those who pretend to look so bothered about growing "hatred", the least they can do is develop a quest to read unbiased and objective news or at least do some cross checking of their news or just wait for the story to develop. That is if you are genuinely bothered and do believe in your principles. Maybe we need to raise bit of awareness for our American friends that there is no such thing - absolutely no such thing - as "unbiased" journalist/newspaper and channel.
Anyway, coming back to Dawn, due to the type of funding they receive it is unfortunately the type of newspaper which would rip apart and demonise someone like Edhi for rejecting Modi's money! Edhi Foundation is a very old, very established, very transparent and well followed organisation and it is hard to believe no one in Dawn's editorial room knew that the foundation has strict policy of not accepting foreign government's aid. I am pretty sure they deliberately did not include this information to spark a debate, and get ratings.
But truth to be told, even if there wasn't a policy in place, Edhi was perfectly within his moral ground to reject murderous Modi government's money (not Indians). Indian writers can return their prestigious awards as reaction Modi's fascist colours, but Pakistani humanitarian cannot say no India's blood soaked money? I fail to see what could have been a big deal had Edhi said no to Modi.
Re: Geeta's Return
@Jolie see, I was not saying anything about bigger heart. Yes this is a great charity I salute it from bottom of my heart. You mentioned a very few things of your choice about India. Very recently Pakistani naval security killed Indian fisherman from Gujrat. I can show you tons of such things but I won't because I don't believe doing such
Re: Geeta's Return
things rather I like to discuss issues and yes I like to hear critics and different views about India. It helps me to know other perspective, other face of coin. Most of your posts/comments are genuine and admirable and for that reason I follow them. But you see someone starts a thread about 'killing of
Re: Geeta's Return
dalits by rajputs as a part of revenge' and links it with 'threat to secularism' 'human rights' etc ridiculous indeed. Some members here really willing to discuss issues but at the same time they can see everything related to India is being used for abusing entire
Re: Geeta's Return
Nation and it's citizen. I don't express my reservations on such threads 'coz 1) I am not Mahatma Gandhi (but I try to follow his teachings) to teach everyon what to do and what not. But I can't resist myself when I see something very narrow (both in real life and internet) 2) there are Indians
Re: Geeta's Return
with plenty of free time to upload hate vids about Pakistan on youtube. I practically can't stop all of them so how can I ask people here? 3) this is a Pakistani forum primarily meant for Pakistanis. 4) an eye for an eye makes whole world blind. @Jolie I find your views quite genuine and I wish to hear a lot from you on various issues be it political, social or historical.
Re: Geeta’s Return
You are absolutely right. The incident you are stating only happened last month, and so it is very probable that Pakistan navy - in light of recent hostilities from India and the way they sent a dead mutilated body of Pakistani prisoner - has adopted a lot aggressive approach. This is wrong and counter productive and Indians hold every right to take a stance against that. But I can state many examples where Pakistan had released Indian fishermen as mere goodwill gesture.
I am not from Karachi, and I don’t have any relatives in or from India, but I do have relatives living along the LoC, and have heard how those communities are living in constant fear. I have every reason to feel outraged about issues that feel a lot closer to home - if some Pakistanis and Indians cannot be bothered relate to that, that’s their problem, and I genuinely have no respect for them.
People’s properties, children and animals are getting killed by India’s unprovoked aggression. So I absolutely believe in raising this issue, raising awareness, popularising this debate to put some kind of genuine pressure on India to curb its hostilities.. Going gaga over bunch of people’s hippie profile pictures (bulk of them overseas!!) with cheesy messages is not going to resolve these border disputes which is killing innocent people literally every week.
You guys are more than welcome to protest from your side. In Pakistan’s defence, they had allowed UN to intervene and inspect the area because they have nothing to hide, if India is serious about ending hostilities and co-existing peacefully then let UN team also inspect their side of LoC and have doodh ka dooh paani ka paani.
One side is hellbent of cancelling all kids of peace talks, destroying cultural and sporting ties in the region, and the other side is always required to turn the other cheek, and create some self deluding euphoria of people to people everlasting love. Time to engage in issue based discourse with India.
This whole people to people interactions and relations (especially in third countries) had never been an issue between both countries in any point of time, so I don’t why its mere existence is so exaggerated.
Re: Geeta's Return
@Jolie I hear news of firing at borders and what I observe these firing become intense at the time of elections or initiation of talks between the countries or any friendly thing happens or to cover infiltrators. Let's not discuss these things in this thread. Start a new one. This thread is meant to respect a good thing.
Re: Geeta's Return
[mod]This thread is cleaned. Please keep the discussion going without personal attacks[/mod]
Re: Geeta’s Return
India had recently developed a trend of cancelling peace talks without any firing on borders. India is hardly a worthwhile issue in our election campaign so any firing on border doesn’t impact our election slogans - we have far too many of our own problems. But parties like BJP and Hindutava groups thrive on anti Pakistan hatred.
It is not Pakistan’s interest to keep the Eastern border active as our army is engaged at multiple fronts. We need heavy investment, infrastructure, manpower and a huge strategic and operational shift to guard our Western front for long term and have a strong presence in areas like FATA, but India’s constant threat of wars and aggression at border is a blood socked distraction for our Army.
Also, the areas around our LoC are more populated and nearer to the boundary line, than it is at Indian side, or so I’ve heard. So Pakistan doesn’t have any real ground for mindlessly engaging with India since India’s conventional strength is much bigger and potent than Pakistan’s. But BJP and a lot of Hindutava parties did promise to “teach Pakistan a lesson” after coming to power. However, luckily for you guys, unfortunately we have plenty of Pakistani that would defame and blame their own Army then consider these factors.
We can certainly open a thread, but this whole idea of equating “both countries” as same needs to be dismissed. The equation has totally changed, Pakistan has a separate case of its own, and it needs to be projected. Some Pakistanis need to be aware of the ground realities - Pakistan has been a victim of base propaganda and nasty misconceptions for so long, and it is about time people start speaking up for their country, and clear some of those misconceptions. Some people just so harshly judge and thrash Pakistan and leave all sorts of benefits of doubt, political correctness when it comes to others - I cannot stand these double standards.
Re: Geeta's Return
The people who build some kind of euphoria around people to people 'peace' between India and Pakistan don't realise that when issue based politics is being discussed from a state level - these feel good tales are almost meaningless and futile. They should not be seen as some kind of 'come back' when far more damaging state policies are being discussed and condemned because ultimately these are the things you want to highlight because those are things you want to change, and those are the things that would bring ultimate peace in the region.
People to people relationship at family or personal level has never been part of the problem or the solution since the beginning! So clearly the paradigm needs to be changed, and the tendency to get carried away by feel good stories should not stop other people from talking about more solid issues that actually impact people living in India-Pakistan, not USA, UK, or Dubai.