Re: From Atheism To Islam
of course anything outside of circular logic would seem like a red herring to you, psyah je. point being, the irony here is believers and their superiority complex dont realize how much they rely on the non-believers to do even the basic day to day things. #realitycheck](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=realitycheck)
Re: From Atheism To Islam
ok.
I am glad you did not have issue,with some one mentioning, pen and collective knowledge RIGHT AFTER he mentioned creation of human beings.
What I find really funny is, those are the 2 things which set us apart from animals.
Some one knew what he was talking about, wont you say so?
Re: From Atheism To Islam
pen and collective knowledge is what sets us apart from animals? 
animals of many many species have collective knowledge. humans are animals too.
if i had a penny for each time the religious sorts tried to teach me something condescendingly with their own lack of understanding…
Re: From Atheism To Islam
I totally rely on the non-believers for debating these issues … The reason why it is a red-herring is that to rely on someone for doing basic day to day things … Like for example drive a car, use the internet and so on … Does not in any way contribute to the argument that we all need God.
The air, the rocks, the water, energy and so on are God given so these things are they not ultimately what all people rely on? … We can count one societies favours on another … Through time … The contribution of maths, algebra, astronomy, etc but all these are red-herrings … Humanity progresses from humanity …
#red-herring](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=red-herring) .
Re: From Atheism To Islam
Peace bella88
A lie needs to be proven to be called a lie ... Merely saying "oh that's a lie" is itself a lie ... It is the lie of the one who has not verified his accusation.
doesn't your religion call all other religions false?
Re: From Atheism To Islam
doesn't your religion call all other religions false?
Peace bella88
Actually that does not even make sense ... and it does not flow from the previous argument. To claim a lie is not to claim falsehood. A lie is when I knowingly speak of something without knowledge of its truth or falsehood. But if I claim to be true in something then by definition it would mean that anything that is different from that position it logically flows that it is false, or else the truth cannot be distinguished. If God makes that claim and nothing evades the knowledge of God then it cannot be a lie for God to call anything false. So if I were to call anything wrong - it would be through some sort of verification. I would be a liar if I merely leveled something as being true or false.
The second point is "other religions are false" is a meaningless statement ... A religion cannot be false ... it can be misdirected, polytheistic, altered, have corrupted teachings, completely fabricated ... but it cannot be false ... If you mean false in the sense - sanctioned by God then that is not true about Islam ... Very clearly the original message given to many people in fact our tradition is that every people will be able to link back to some point in their own history when a message was given to them that originated in Divine sanction. A prophet to every nation. The same message woven through time. Worship One God and be good to others. That is the essence of true religion.
Analysing the logic of the contra-position ... If for example we assume that "many religions or some religions are true" then we will be destined for a lot of confusion. We cannot reconcile shirk and tawheed - two religions with these aspects cannot be married in to a harmonious understanding - they both necessitate expulsion of each other. For that reason the disingenuous people will be the ones who claim "all religions are okay" ...
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
why not see both sides? if someone simply wants to post videos of 'miraculous' conversions, then shouldn't they be posting those in Video section or blogs? those places aren't for discussion, but this place is. anything posted on this section is up for debate and discussion, so why not talk about those who also leave islam as well?
I am not stopping you from discussing. Rather, I want you answer the 'why'. You know atheists and agnostics are always bent on asking why God does this or that. So do you know the reason why you posted in this thread?
Re: From Atheism To Islam
and what can be concluded from your observation is that the AllMighty has made the believers role to invite towards belief and the non-believers to serve those who extend the invitations to believe in the AllMighty!
Re: From Atheism To Islam
ok.. are you telling me that you able to read books 1000 years old and learn form them is equal to “collective learning” in animals ?
Me and you at our own could not break a stone in whole life time. And Now we are reading writing using machine. Learning from people from around the world.
Are you trying to tell me there is parallel example in animals ???
That sort of arrogance keep you where you are. Sadly.
If you had same attitude towards your school, I am sure you would be still in grade one.
Attitude of being so sure that you know that we have nothing you already don’t know.
Lets start with you telling me example of collective learning in animals, as we humans have.
Re: From Atheism To Islam
Brother Monk
Did you not know that fish go around in schools? That must infer collective learning … 
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
:D
Just like to point out that youre being just as condescending as anyone else, more than most actually. The only one more condescending than you is bella. If youd like to see less condescension maybe you should be less condescending too? Ive seen the other side reply with nothing but manners. But I guess you dont see your own hypocrisy because youre too busy trying to be funny.
We are all amused. Even bemused.
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
Just like to point out that youre being just as condescending as anyone else, more than most actually. The only one more condescending than you is bella. If youd like to see less condescension maybe you should be less condescending too? Ive seen the other side reply with nothing but manners. But I guess you dont see your own hypocrisy because youre too busy trying to be funny. We are all amused. Even bemused.
Its ok. People express the way they want on GS, Thats what make this place interesting.
Us(believer ) only try to tell them things we suspect they don't know about our faith.
Some time we try to neutralized things they stick to, so they can evaluate fairly what we have
to say.
Guidance come from God. We can only do our little jobs :)
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
Just like to point out that youre being just as condescending as anyone else, more than most actually. The only one more condescending than you is bella. If youd like to see less condescension maybe you should be less condescending too? Ive seen the other side reply with nothing but manners. But I guess you dont see your own hypocrisy because youre too busy trying to be funny. We are all amused. Even bemused.
anyone that doesn't believe in your religion is condescending? religious people here show the least amount of respect and think its their god given right to talk down upon non-believers. please read other threads and see how your fellow brethren treat non-religious folks on this forum. yes very amusing indeed when one side can attack all they want, yet the other side is the one who gets warnings..
Re: From Atheism To Islam
Peace bella88
Actually that does not even make sense ... and it does not flow from the previous argument. To claim a lie is not to claim falsehood. A lie is when I knowingly speak of something without knowledge of its truth or falsehood. But if I claim to be true in something then by definition it would mean that anything that is different from that position it logically flows that it is false, or else the truth cannot be distinguished. If God makes that claim and nothing evades the knowledge of God then it cannot be a lie for God to call anything false. So if I were to call anything wrong - it would be through some sort of verification. I would be a liar if I merely leveled something as being true or false.
The second point is "other religions are false" is a meaningless statement ... A religion cannot be false ... it can be misdirected, polytheistic, altered, have corrupted teachings, completely fabricated ... but it cannot be false ... If you mean false in the sense - sanctioned by God then that is not true about Islam ... Very clearly the original message given to many people in fact our tradition is that every people will be able to link back to some point in their own history when a message was given to them that originated in Divine sanction. A prophet to every nation. The same message woven through time. Worship One God and be good to others. That is the essence of true religion.
Analysing the logic of the contra-position ... If for example we assume that "many religions or some religions are true" then we will be destined for a lot of confusion. We cannot reconcile shirk and tawheed - two religions with these aspects cannot be married in to a harmonious understanding - they both necessitate expulsion of each other. For that reason the disingenuous people will be the ones who claim "all religions are okay" ...
thats what I said, you religion is the truth, others are not.. instead of calling them false, you'll just call them misdirected, or altered.. got it. It's belief that your God sent the same message to every nation, when there is absolutely no truth to that at all. and yes there is alot of confusion because all religion are man made. different areas of the world invented their own religion whether its islam or the ancient mayan religion. if God actually sent the same message everywhere, there wouldn't have been so much confusion,but thats not the case.
Re: From Atheism To Islam
thats what I said, you religion is the truth, others are not.. instead of calling them false, you'll just call them misdirected, or altered.. got it. It's belief that your God sent the same message to every nation, when there is absolutely no truth to that at all. and yes there is alot of confusion because all religion are man made. different areas of the world invented their own religion whether its islam or the ancient mayan religion. if God actually sent the same message everywhere, there wouldn't have been so much confusion,but thats not the case.
Peace bella88
Giving you benefit of the doubt what You actually mean in the emboldened part above is that there is no extra scriptural proof of that claim ... To say "there is no truth" as you have said is to say that it is a lie ... And if it is a lie as you claim ... You need to prove that it is. If you can't prove it then that itself is the lie.
You say if God sent the same message everywhere there wouldn't be so much confusion? ... On what grounds is that statement being made?
Re: From Atheism To Islam
Peace bella88
Giving you benefit of the doubt what You actually mean in the emboldened part above is that there is no extra scriptural proof of that claim ... To say "there is no truth" as you have said is to say that it is a lie ... And if it is a lie as you claim ... You need to prove that it is. If you can't prove it then that itself is the lie.
you are the one who claims your God sent the same message to every nation so you need to show the evidence for that.
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
^
So when we say all other religions are untrue , we are correct, according to you?
And according to you, we should also think islam is wrong.
Right ?
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
^ So when we say all other religions are untrue , we are correct, according to you? And according to you, we should also think islam is wrong. Right ?
you should think whatever you want to. afterall , believers of every faith think their religion is the right one.
Re: From Religion to Atheism (Split from Original: From Islam to Atheism)
Ok, only reason I asked you this, I get 2 messages from your posts.
One hand you beat down islam, with atheist argument. Then you turn around get mad at us for calling other religion wrong.
Mathematically, you should admire us for being write about other religions.
+
You should tell us we are also wrong.
Thanks