This is an interesting video put together by an Iranian havard student, explaining how the lessons of karbala is as relevant and important today to shias as it was back then. Karbala was the driving force during Iranian revolution, durig the Iran-Iraq and Hezbullah/Israeli war. Karbala is not something that just happened 1400 years ago, but reflects the true spirit of Islam against tyranny and oppression world wide.
Karbla may be sacred due to the martyrdom of Imam Hussain rah.
However it was a tactical blunder. Imam rah's intelligence officers goofed up big time when they gave him all clear signal for his travel towards Karbala.
We should definitely celebrate Imam's courage, but we should never forget the follies of his intelligence advisors.
Can you imagine, our Messenger pbuh going to a dangerous situation totally unprepared?????????????
Heck no.
Look at the Mohammad pbuh as a tactician, and see how he prepared for Badr, Uhad, and Khandq, always planning, always thinking 20 steps ahead of His opponents.
And see how he used diplomacy via Hudaibia treaty to get out of a clear defeat.
In summary --
Lesson #1 - You should never show up with a knife in a gun fight.
Lesson #2 - If you do find yourself in a situation where you have a knife and your opponent a gun, then immediately fire your intelligence officers and sign a Hudaibia treaty with your opponent to get out of jam.
Lesson #3 - And never under any circumstances travel in a hostile environment with your women and children in tow.
Re: From Defeat to Defiance
^ Hudaibia was not a clear defeat infact many muslims were upset why Prophet made peace on terms that were far from favorable to muslims
hussain b ali knew very well what was going on in kufa he had no intention to militarily dethrone yazid if he did he would have gone to yemen where there were many of his supporters and the terrain was very difficult for invading armies.OR he could have done the Bayat and bought some time and when yazid's forces were engaged with ibn zubair then cud have raised the standard of rebellion
Prophet also had direct help from God's commandements which hussain did not , furthermore Prophet himself had predicted that hussian will be martyred in iraq and this prophecy had to come true
Re: From Defeat to Defiance
it was only khomeni's courage that enabled the revolution to succeed that makes khomeni the biggest mujadid of this century
...now in the wake of iran revolution ...12ers are thinking they ARE the sect of revolution
the truth is that 12er sect has always adopted a nonconfrontational approach to tyrants incontrast with other shia sects ...that enabled their survival to this day
and even when khomeni adopted the concept of vilayat-e-faqi there were many shia clerics who opposed him strongly
thats what ali shariati calls "black shiaism" ......
........ Prophet also had direct help from God's commandements which hussain did not .....
This argument is on really really weak grounds. One can say that about every action of our Messenger pbuh and thus any of His pbuh actions could not be replicated.
Allah's help is available for all of his creation and that's why every one of us should use the prayer and dua to acquire Allah's guidance.
In summary --
Lesson #1 - You should never show up with a knife in a gun fight.
Lesson #2 - If you do find yourself in a situation where you have a knife and your opponent a gun, then immediately fire your intelligence advisors and sign a Hudaibia treaty with your opponent to get out of jam.
Lesson #3 - And never under any circumstances travel in a hostile environment with your women and children in tow.
Re: From Defeat to Defiance
^ u are looking at it simply from a military /worldly standpoint not taking into account the religious significance of the event
if hussain the grandson of prophet had given endoresement to yazid's actions then everything that tyrants have done till now wud be justified also then there wud be no diffrentitation between a caliph -e-rashid and a king
again hudaibiya was a treaty muslims signed in a position of power but at APPARENTLY lenient terms but its long term consequences were favorable to islam.Hudaibiya is analogous to Sulh-e-Hasan ibn ali]
^ u are looking at it simply from a military /worldly standpoint not taking into account the religious significance of the event ..]
Well you are correct that the analysis so far is to view Karbala's fiasco from military point of view.
And there is a reason for that.
You go back to the topic of this thread and you will see that it tries to link the military/worldly aspects of Karabla to the modern day militant movements like Hizballah.
.....if hussain the grandson of prophet had given endoresement to yazid's actions... ibn ali]
Remember there was another grandson of prophet too. Imam Hasan!
Imam Hasan and his advisors realized not to depend on deceitful Iraqi groups (Koofis back then) thus deciding to stay put.
Imam Hussain's advisors made HUGE blunders thus putting him and his family on their path of "military" confrontation. Sadly.
Remember there was another grandson of prophet too. Imam Hasan!
Imam Hasan and his advisors realized not to depend on deceitful Iraqi groups (Koofis back then) thus deciding to stay put.
Imam Hussain's advisors made HUGE blunders thus putting him and his family on their path of "military" confrontation. Sadly.
Most if not all advisors of hasan b ali were also kufis and not all of them were decieteful
please name the ones you have problem against
Most if not all advisors of hasan b ali were also kufis and not all of them were decieteful please name the ones you have problem against
It is incorrect on your part to use the term deceitful about the Hasan or Hussain's advisors.
Kufis who were sending out invitations to Hasan and Hussain were deceitful. Hussain's advisors failed to see through the Kufi charade. That's all.
Re: From Defeat to Defiance
^ how do u know they failed to see them ...hussain knew these leaders intimately as he had stayed in iraq a long time
and best of the salaf were kufis plz dont generalize no doubt there were some bad apples amogst them , which specific kufis do u have a problem with ? can you name them or their leaders ? if so the we can debate about them individually
^ how do u know they [Hussain's advisors] failed to see them [the treacherous among Kufis] ..... ........
How do I know????????????????
Are you being serious??? This is one heck of childish question.
How do I know????
Man don't you even see that Hussein and his family were killed mercilessly and it all happened because some Kufis betrayed Hussein.
Why else Hussein would be left all alone to fend for himself. Where was the support of Kufis?
Oh man! Forget any discussion. You are too simple to understand the horrendous crime that was committed that fateful day. Forget it! You can't carry on a decent conversation.
Re: From Defeat to Defiance
^ and u my friend are ignorant of even the basic facts about the event of karbala and the events AFTER karbala
and if u are so sure of ur sweeping allegation then which specific kufis do u have a problem with ? can you name them or their leaders ? if so the we can debate about them individually