Mr. Islamabad
The paragraph you are mentioning is a part of a continuing essay. Can you also for the sake of readers, translate the full page so that they can understand the context in which this sentence was written.
Do not try to distract the discussion. Believing in Mohammed :saw: means ur ALSO believing in the prophets before him. The problem is that there is no Prophet after him
So ur No. 5 screams that you are Qadiyani…not Muslim. Use Qadiani or Ahmedi whatever you like but not Muslim. As we Muslim who believe in Prophet Mohammed :saw: do not call ourselves Christian, but Muslim only. You use the term Ahmedi not Muslim.
Can a Muslim who also believes in Jesus in Islamic way call himself a Christian. The answer is a BIG NO.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Mr. Islamabad
The paragraph you are mentioning is a part of a continuing essay. Can you also for the sake of readers, translate the full page so that they can understand the context in which this sentence was written.
[/QUOTE]
Full page my foot! What is wrong with you guys??? Can't you even see his direct words??? Ok Why don't you yourself quote the fullpage for yourself. His saying this is enough blasphemy!
lol@ ‘kanjiri ki aulaad’ Mirza’s own words for Sunniz…maaazallah.
The comedy is that his own son Fazal was a Sunni 
What does it make his wife 
Mr. Islamabad,
Do you have the books of the promised messiah or not? Or you are just going to Anit-Ahmadia website and cutting and pasting from there. I don't think you have the courage to face the truth and put the full page translation!
^Innalillahe wa inna ilayhe rajioon..
here i translate the whole passage from which the above few lines have been hacked and misrepresented..
" I have written it so many times that this previlage that has been give to Jesus on living for 2000 years and bodily adcention to the heaven is a clear blasphemy to our Prophet (saw) from all possible angles. The special connection of God with Jesus is being proven by such claims as Our Prophet :saw: did not even live uptp 100 years and Jesus lives for 2000 years, and that God decides to chose a low place which is narrow and smelly and a place of abode for insects, but he called Jesus up to heavens which has paradise and is the place of dwelling for angels. Now you tell, who has been given more love and affection?? Who has been given nearness to him and who has been previlaged to be sent back for a second time???"
This is my translation.. and it is not the best transltion.. but the sense is clear..now you tell me, are you not being blasphemous by elevating the status of Jesus above Holy Prophet:saw:??
Plus chek your self where its written..
Rohani khazain By Hazret Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
Ghairet ki jaa hey ke madfoon ho zameen pe Shah`e Dujahan
Or Isa (as) ho 4th asmaaan pur.
For you All
*** The time is near when I should attain a magnificent victory, because in support of what I state, there is another voice which speaks; and in support of my hand there is another hand which operates. Yet, the world cannot perceive it, but I behold it. There is a heavenly spirit which speaks in me and grants a new life to every word and every letter of mine. A commotion and upsurge has erupted in the heaven which has caused this earthly body to stand up at God's behest. Every such person who has been denied forgiveness and salvation shall soon see for himself that I do not make these claims on my own. Can they be seeing eyes which fail to recognize a man of truth? Can he be deemed alive who has no awareness of this Heavenly call?" — The Promised Messiah & Mahdi Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.
correction man..
Ghayrat kee jaa hay Isa zinda hone asmaan pay
madfoon ho zameen main Shahe Jahaan:saw: hamara
Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem
National General Secratery of jamat Ahmadiya Mahmoodiya HUGNRY resigned from his post and left the jamaat with describing some fatcs.
In the Name of Allah,
the Most Merciful, the Most Gracious
September 16, 2002,
Ahmadiyya Muslim Jama'at
Szombathely Genfer Strasse 11 D-60688
Frankfurt
am Main It must be very unpleasant news to you that
I, Miklos Molnar, General Secretary of the Ahmadi Jama'at in Hungary, have come to the firm conviction that by serving the so-called 'Ahmadiyya Movement' I do not in any sense serve the cause of God.
This conviction of mine was formed out while I watched your missionaries live and work, eat and pray, deal with people and everyday problems. Although these Pakinstanis are capable to speak about 'God' for twenty-four hours without taking breath, they couldn't impress me for a moment as being men of God. Small-minded, mistrustful, paranoid, uneducated yet conceited, these men appeared to me as rude colonizers, or as professional technicians of indoctrination at the most. I realized rather fast that they don't make friends because they love people. They never make friends for the sake of getting acquainted with someone. Suspucious and destructive as they are, they want to force out of mind, out of sight, anything or anyone opposing their 'truth'. If they are interested in anyone, it's for nothing more than to have raw material to be duped and brainwashed into their alleged 'religion'. Indeed, their conduct reminds one of the behaviour of the worst kind of colonizers. Not knowing anything about my country or about my people, they want to occupy it, take advantage of it, exploit it, 'convert' it - in the name of what? In the name of a fake religion. In the name of the Big Business 'Ahmadiyya'.
The longer I watched these narrow-minded missionaries, the more I began to feel that something must be amiss with this 'movement' of yours. I can smell a rat, you know. Working inside me, there's a fine precision instrument which I call deceptograph. It didn't leave me alone until I decided to check on what I had been told about Mirza Ghulam of Qadian, the founder of your movement. (According to the Hadith Seeking knowledgeranks higher than worship.) It turned out in a flash that most of his writings have been handled as strictly confidential to be kept a long distance away from the common followers of the 'Ahmadi'credo.Having looked a bit into Mirza Ghulam's life, teachings, prophecies, statements and deeds, I was horrified: how could a sane person believe that this man was a prophet of God? How could I believe in such an atrocious lie?
You have bamboozled me, gentlemen. I have been as gullible as an old supertitious peasant woman living in some godforsaken village to give credence to your nasty tricks and mendacities. Now I can see clearly that you, at daggers with the whole world, are peddling a most terrible hoax. The whole edifice of your movement is built on a big fat lie. The caliphate of yours that had been created with fraudulent references to the alleged 'Promised Messiah' is absolutely illegitimate. The 'Ahmadis', or rather their leadership, cheat, manipulate, brainwash people all over the world. In the name of 'true religion', prisons are built around misguided followers, exploiting and misusing their spiritual and, last not least, financial resources. That is a crime against Islam. That is a crime against mankind.
I can tell you only this much: I'm not going to be apprentice boy of, or headhunter for, crooks like you. Hereby I declare my final decision that I resign from the position of General Secretary of the Hungarian Ahmadi Community for good. I quit your movement once and for all. I'm not willing to identify myself with you any longer. I do not serve what you serve, nor are you serving what I serve.
Miklos Molnar
Hungary
Mr Milkos or whatever his name is has not been aware of a site called
www.alfazal.org, where all the writings of Promised Massiah (as) have been published for Ahmadis and adeversaries alike..
And being a follower of Imame waqt needs some devotion.. Jihad of this time is jihad of time and mind.. the above mentioned person failed to understand that..
Mr. Perplexing instead of relying on such "evidences" can you reply to the thread A question to Ahmadis II.. i think that needs your attention..
Mr. Destino I would like to warn you once and for all "I do not want to hear any childish, un-humorous remarks as of such". You might have had a good time making such remarks with other postees, but I would refrain from doing the same with me. The thread is there and so am I and it will be answered accordingly THERE. This is a different thread and I am free to post anything here when ever I want to or any where else for that matter. I think the fact that it took you 2 days to answer one of my questions and that the Questions were addressd to Mister fateh Ahmad, which have seized to show up there, escapes your mind. At least he had more more dignity and common sense, which was exhibited by his writings, they were at least rational.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by fatehahmad: *
Mr. Islamabad,
Do you have the books of the promised messiah or not? Or you are just going to Anit-Ahmadia website and cutting and pasting from there. I don't think you have the courage to face the truth and put the full page translation!
[/QUOTE]
Mister fateh Ahmad for some one who relies on websites them selves thats not a nice thing to say to other people. Where do you think you got all of this....
[quote]
Mr. Islamabad
First of all Hadith about Mehdi being a caliph of Allah is authentic Hadith.
quote:
Narrated by Hadrat Ibna Umar (R.A) :
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: " For the ratification
of Imam Mahdi there will be a voice
heard from the sky stating 'this is Mahdi, the Caliph of Allah'
". (Abu Naeem, Mustadrak Hakim & Talkhisul-Mutshabah).
And you can also find in Sahih Ibn-Majah. This is the Hadith which Imam Hakim had also mentioned in his "Mustadrak" and declared it as
authentic as Bukhari and Muslim.
About the Promised Messiah mentioned it as a Bukhari Hadith because of a human error. There are many examples of such mistakes of reference in the Islamic history. Like Imam Ebna-Rabi had refered the
"Khairul sudan-e-salasa" hadith as of Bukhari where as it was from 'Mustadrak Hakim' ". But no pious man had ever blamed Imam
Ebna-Rabi as liar due to said mistake. Rather, Mullah Ali
Qari (a renound Muslim scholar) while writing on this topic had stated it as mistake of pen. (See Mazoo-ate-kabir).
Prophets are human and human can make mistakes. Even the greatest of the prophets the Holy Prophets has made a mistake. Please read the following Hadith from Bukhari
quote:
Abu Huraira said, "Allah's Apostle led us in one of the two 'Isha' prayers (Abu Huraira named that prayer but I forgot it)." Abu Huraira added, "He prayed two Rakat and then finished the prayer with Tasllm. He stood up near a piece of wood Lying across the mosque and leaned on it in such a way as if he was angry. Then he put his right hand over the left and clasped his hands by interlacing his fingers and then put his J right cheek on the back of his left hand. The people who were in haste left the mosque through its gates. They wondered whether the prayer was reduced. And amongst them were Abu Bakr and 'Umar but they hesitated to ask the Prophet. A long-handed man called Dhul-Yadain asked the Prophet, 'O Allah's Apostle! Have you; forgotten or has the prayer been reduced?' The Prophet replied, 'I have neither forgotten nor has the prayer been reduced' The Prophet added, 'Is what Dhul Yadain has said true?' They (the people) said, 'Yes, it is true.' The Prophet stood up again and led the prayer, completing the remaining prayer, forgotten by him, and performed Talsrm, and then said, 'Allahu Akbar.' And then he did a prostration as he used to prostrate or longer than that. He then raised his head saying, 'Allahu Akbar; he then again said, 'Allahu Akbar', and prostrated as he used to prostrate or longer than that. Then he raised his head and said, 'Allahu Akbar.' " (The subnarrator added, "I think that they asked (Ibn Sirin) whether the Prophet completed the prayer with Taslim. He replied, "I heard that 'Imran bin Husain had said, 'Then he (the Prophet) did Taslim.")
Can you naozobillah call the Holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) a liar! No you can't.
So it should be considered a human error and a mistake of pen. nothing more.
[/quote]
Sorry about that Mr. Perplexing, there was no pun intended.. but to be fair, can you bring Mr. Milkos here on the forum and bring forward his testimony on what he believes now.. etc.. Or can you quote some Ahmadi books which have said such and such..
I am sure you understand that in order for such statement to be called a valid evidence, you have to do some work to make people believe that it is authentic and comes from some authentic source.. Its more then easy to make such stories up..
Just take a look at Mr. Islamabad's last allegation.. he quotes something from Roohani Khazain (from Irshad org etc) with some references his allegation openly fell apart on detailed examination..
How can someone believe your post, untill he is given an option to do his own research...
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Destino: *
Sorry about that Mr. Perplexing, there was no pun intended.. but to be fair, can you bring Mr. Milkos here on the forum and bring forward his testimony on what he believes now.. etc.. Or can you quote some Ahmadi books which have said such and such..
I am sure you understand that in order for such statement to be called a valid evidence, you have to do some work to make people believe that it is authentic and comes from some authentic source.. Its more then easy to make such stories up..
Just take a look at Mr. Islamabad's last allegation.. he quotes something from Roohani Khazain (from Irshad org etc) with some references his allegation openly fell apart on detailed examination..
How can someone believe your post, untill he is given an option to do his own research...
[/QUOTE]
Point taken!
Mr. Perplexing,
I am not against Anti-Ahmadis to visit Anti-Ahmadiyya website. What I want from them to see the both side of the picture. After visiting the Anti-Ahmadi website, they should also go to an Ahmadi website and for themselves read the books of the Promised Messiah to understand the context in which something is written?
[quote]
with Jesus is being proven by such claims as Our Prophet did not even live uptp 100 years and Jesus lives for 2000 years, and that God decides to chose a low place which is narrow and smelly and a place of abode for insects, but he called Jesus up to heavens which has paradise and is the place of dwelling for angels. Now you tell, who has been given more love and affection?? Who has been given nearness to him and who has been previlaged to be sent back for a second time???"
[/quote]
NaHmadoka - "We praise you." wa Nusalli "and send salam/dorood on you"(Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol. 22 p. 97)
This is what Allah has said about Mirza Sahib, accorindg to him.....
Same page Allah says the following as well.
"I have come down for you." (Haqeeqat-ul-Wahi, Roohani Khazain vol. 22 p. 97)
Can some one tell me where has Allah said these things about his Prophet SAW and if he has'nt then who is getting nearness to who..???
Mr. Perplexing,
While offering daily prayers, don't you send darood on the holy prophet?
[QUOTE]
Bless, O Allah, Muhammad and his people as Thou didst bless Abraham and his people. Thou art indeed Praiseworthy, the Exalted.
Prosper, O Allah, Muhammad and his people as Thou didst prosper Abraham and his people. Thou art indeed Praiseworthy, the Exalted.
[/QUOTE]
Can you honestly tell me that by writing those sentences in his book, the promised messiah is naozolbillah claiming superiority over the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him).
Now here is an excerpt from one of his books about the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him):
[QUOTE]
It would not have been possible for me to have attained this grace if I had not followed the footsteps of my lord and master, the pride of all the prophets, the best of mankind, Muhammad, the chosen one, peace and blessings of Allah be on him. Whatever I have achieved, I have achieved by following him, and I know from verified reliable experience that no man can reach God and obtain a deeper understanding of His ways without following that Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be on him.
Now, let me also make it known that the very first thing you are rewarded with, after having completely submitted yourself to the instructions and teachings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, is that you are granted a new heart which is always rightly inclined, that is to say, a heart which has turned cold upon the love of this material world, and instead it begins to yearn for an everlasting heavenly pleasure. Having achieved this desire, this heart is now fit to receive that perfect and purest love--the love of God. Because of your complete obedience to him, all these blessings are bequeathed to you as his spiritual heritage.
(Roohani Khaza'in, Vol. 22: Haqeeqatul Wahi, pp. 64-65)
[/QUOTE]
**
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by insha_ji: *
well same goes to you.
You cant be a muslim if you cant recognize the Imam of the time. Promised Massiah and Imam Mehdi.
[/QUOTE]
**
A Look at The Death of Promised Massiah
In light of Qadiani/Ahmadi own records
Say: "Verily those who invent a lie concerning Allah will not succeed. This world's portion (will be theirs), then unto Us is their return. Then, We make them taste a dreadful doom because they used to disbelieve."
(The Holy Quran, Yunus, 10:69-70)
For years, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani attributed outrageous lies to Allah(SWT): he claimed to be Mehdi, the Promised Messiah, a reincarnation of Muhammad(SAW), a new improved Prophet, Hindu Lord, and a manifestation of God. He said he was in direct communication with Allah and claimed that his revelations were divine in nature. It is fitting that Allah(SWT) made his death a testimony to his falsehood. His sudden death proved his following prophecies to have been untrue:
His prophecy that he (Mirza) will live to be 80 or more years old;
(He died when he was only 68 year old.)
His prophecy that he would marry Muhammadi Begum, before his death;
(He never did marry Muhammadi Begum.)
The claim (and Mubahala challenge) that Moulvi Sanaullah of Amristar, his arch opponent who had openly called him a liar and an impostor, will die before him;
("The liar will die first" - Mirza died first!)
His prophecy that Dr. Abdul Hakim, one of his opponents who had called him a liar during an open debate, will die within Mirza's life time;
(he said "The liar will die first". But, Mirza died first!)
The prophecy (and Mubahala challenge) that Mr. Abdullah Atham, a Christian who had debated with Mirza Ghulam and put him to shame, will die before him;
(Mirza had said: "the liar will die first" - Yet, Mirza died first!)
His revelation that Allah(SWT) will bestow upon him a great new son, a sign of Allah(SWT)'s presence and proof of his prophethood;
(Mirza died without having another son.)
His claim that Allah(SWT) had revealed to him that he would marry many more virtuous women;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)
His prophecy that he (Mirza) will marry a widow, before his death;
(After the prophecy, he did not marry anyone else.)
His prophecy that he will die in Mekkah or Medina.
(Mirza died in the city of Lahor; he never saw Mekkah or Medina.)
Indeed, Mirza Ghulam's death was a sign of Allah(SWT)'s displeasure with him. He died from the disease he feared the most in a wretched condition and in utter disgrace, as he himself had stated:
"To turn out a liar in his own prophecy is biggest disgrace of disgraces."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 382)
Mr. Smooth_guy:
References please!