Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
hamilton's damise? no way man hes here to stay... hes gonna win this season for sure... great prospect..
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
he has 2 things in his way right now. the recent issues with mclarens. engineering has to sort this quickly. and secondly..the whole spy row with ferrari. its kinda unclear whether he loses his points as teh driver too or is it only mclaren..if mclaren is found guilty of anything.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
mclaren out of immediate danger although the words of f1 governing body about possible exclusion from 2007 and 2008 series is a little discomforting.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
so mclaren now loses all contructor cup points and pays a huge fine.
but hamilton and alonso dont lose their points.
so sorry ferrari whiners, kimi and massa still aint gonna win...
ferrari should try to win F1 on the speedway rather than in courts, There is still zero proof that any of the information that ferrari's individual engineer was giving to mclaren's individual engineer, was used for mclaren's car.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
There is no proof, but the judges said that the information may have been used. Alonso knew about the fishy business but he survived by becoming an alibi.
Bad day for Mclarens. Ferrari too fast for them today. Hamilton is now leading Alonso by only 2 points: 97 to 95.
On a different note, Mr. Heidi Klum aka Falvio Briatore of Renault is showing interest in rehiring Alonso for the next season.
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/28082007/13/briatore-wants-alonso-renault.html
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Well Alonso is not going to be at mclaren next year, I can bet on it. even if he wanted to stay his whole role in the spy gate makes him a liability. he has ben whining of not being given the support, typical prima dona attitude. and what he did today to force hamilton off the track reminds me of the cheap tactics of senna and prost back in the day.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
good thing McLaren got fined, I would have loved their drivers stripped of their points as well 
I was already very surprised that after several years as a sub-optimal team, McLaren this year could suddenly be so competitive, despite several huge changes in their team:
- new tyre regulations
- one rookie driver
- one driver who barely speaks English
- no new designer or some good engineer
- their most consistent factor in recent years and after Schumacher considered the fastest driver (Raikkonen) leaving for Ferrari
compared to Ferrari, who did have positive changes:
- arrival of Raikkonen
- Schumacher still in the limelight
- Massa maturing into an excellent driver
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
^^That is typical Ferrari band camp's BullCr@p. :)
Hamilton and Alonso indeed are a formidable pair. If Ferrari's design which was copied by Mclaren so great then why were Ferrari getting beaten over and over (same design - same performance). Mclaren's reliabity has been remarkable this year. Their silly espionage made them loose this year's constructors otherwise Ferrari wouldn't have even dreamt of winning it this year.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Ferrari are typical whiners who realized that the only way they can win is by getting in mclaren's case about use of ferrari technology.
The evidence to this date does not suggest usage of that information by mclaren.
and as far as teams getting inside scoop on other teams, this has been going on for ages.
Ferrari may just want to win in courts now rather than on the track :)
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Left out of the initial FIA release were the explanations provided by various McLaren personnel for their actions. And that is where things start to get less clear-cut.
Yes, De la Rosa said, he had asked Coughlan about the Ferrari’s weight distribution, and he knew the information was coming from Ferrari performance director Nigel Stepney.
But he absolutely did not know about the Ferrari documents. He asked Coughlan because they were friends, dating back to the days when De la Rosa drove for Arrows and Coughlan was their designer.
He knew Coughlan was friends with Stepney, a relationship dating back more than a decade.
Finding out as much as possible about rival teams is an every day occurrence in F1. Drivers constantly talk about what other teams are doing - including with members, and drivers, of those teams. And this was no more than that.
And when he discovered the weight distribution was completely different from McLaren’s, he realised testing it would be pointless.
Not only that, De la Rosa said, but the e-mails provided to the FIA were his only communications on this subject.
Equally, McLaren engineering director Paddy Lowe spent a great deal of time explaining how he had traced back what he called “the DNA” of every single McLaren development since before the first contact between Coughlan and Stepney, and was absolutely sure they were all original ideas.
McLaren also employed an independent computer firm to trawl back through their electronic records, and it could find no evidence incriminating them either.
That is not to say McLaren did nothing wrong. They probably should accept responsibility for the actions of Coughlan - he was their employee, after all.
The McLaren counsel argued that, by the same token, Ferrari should accept responsibility for the actions of Stepney. And there have been whispers in F1 that a clever lawyer could make a case against Ferrari on “entrapment”.
Be that as it may, the punishment seems harsh in the extreme when weighed against the fact that there was no concrete evidence that McLaren benefited from the Ferrari information, which is what was at the centre of the case.
Equally, it is worth pointing out that when two Toyota employees were convicted and sent to jail for stealing Ferrari technical information, the FIA did not get involved, despite the obvious similarity between the 2002 Ferrari and 2003 Toyota.
So why get involved this time? It is this sort of inconsistency that infuriates F1 teams.
The verdict after McLaren’s first appearance before the world council on the spying charge was that there was insufficient evidence they had gained any advantage from Coughlan having the Ferrari documents.
They were not punished, but were warned that they faced a ban if any proof emerged in the future that they had gained an advantage from the data.
But the much vaunted “new evidence” provided by De la Rosa’s e-mails and texts did not provide a smoking gun. And it is difficult to see on the face of it what had changed.
The first verdict could - and arguably should - have stood at the second world council hearing last week.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
of course every other team tries to get data from other teams, but that still doesn't make it right if you get caught.
Same thing with doping in cycling. Everyone uses it while knowing that it is banned. So when you get caught you can't escape by saying everyone does it
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Nescio
there are 3 points that I made
1) the discussion between the test driver is unrelated, and it is devoid of common sense. If they had access to ferrari info. they would not be asking a question as basic as weight ratio. that is the point I was making that teams talk, drivers ask other drivers even rivals. so that discussion between de la rossa proves jack and has no relevance.
2) as far as the ferrari data, there is no proof that the Ferrari data was used anywhere. independent auditors have scoured mclaren data and communications and have not found anything. So the punishment is a bit overdone.
3) the teams that obtained and used other teams data, such as toyota, did not get any punishment close to what mclaren got.
as it stands, Mclaren can go after Ferrari on the entrapment clause.
all u have is one employee of a one company sharing info with one employee of another. There is nothing concrete beyond that.
F1 wanted to send a signal, and they chose to give out a rather ridiculous verdict.
too bad for ferrari, they win contructors cup in teh court, which no one gives as much attention to. but they will still not win the F1.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
The drivers should have been penalized as well, lets say 20 points each.
This would have really spiced up the championship!!
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
The drivers should have been penalized as well, lets say 20 points each. This would have really spiced up the championship!!
the championship was spiced with hamilton and alonso kicking everyone else's butt. and with 3 races to go and 2 pts diff between them, its spicy nuff.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Today in Fuji Speedway qualifying, Hamilton has pulled out another one in front of Alonso and the Ferraris. Tomorrow's race is an important one, with only 2 left afterwards.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
wow what a lap by hamilton. tomorrow will be a good contest.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
Rain pushed Ferrari down to the bottom. Now climbing back up.
Lap 41: Hamilton 1, Alonso 5, Massa 8, Raikkonen 12 (Rain restarted)
Lap 42: Alonso has hit a wall. Curtains down for Alonso!!!! Safety car deployed. Plenty of debris on the track.
Red Bull bullying around in 2, 3, 4, and 7 positions. All in points!
Lap 46: Vettel rammed into Weber, destroying both the Red Bulls!! What an irony of fate. Both out, making room for Massa to move to 3rd position!!
Lap 48: Safety car goes: Hamilton 1, Kovalainen 2, Massa 3, Coulthard 4
Crashing favoring the Ferraris.
Lap 52: Status Quo hasn't changed apart from the fact that now Raikkonen is breathing down Coulthard at number 5.
Lap 57: Raikkonen takes lead from Coulthard, moving in to position 4....
Lap 61: As Massa drops to 8 after his last pitstop, Raikkonen(3) charges on to Kovalainen(2) with Hamilton(1) 10.6s ahead in the lead.
Lap 63: Race will hit the 2 hour limit in lap 67. Raikkonen, sensing the same, is pushing hard for the 2nd spot.
Lap 66: Nick Heidfeld retires just before the last lap!!!! Hamilton heading for another great victory!!!
Lap 67: Hamilton takes the chequered flag, followed by Kovalainen, Raikkonen, Coulthard, Fisichella, Massa, Kubica, and Liuzzi. Hamilton now leads Alonso by 12 points with 2 races to go!!!
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
hamilton is something else, i hope he wins.
alonso is a little spoilt punk and cant be trusted after what he just pulled blackmailing Dennis and all.
loser.
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
I just can’t stand Hamilton anymore Really. At first he was like the new rookie getting into stardom and all was good, but his stardom has turned into arrogance really quickly. I mean, since a couple of weeks now, he has been openly criticizing Alonso at every opportunity. Had it not been the continuing discriminative attitude of the McLaren team towards Alonso, Hamilton would never have stood a chance for the world title.
I hope Alonso moves to Ferrari to replace Massa :k:
Re: Formula 1 - season 2007
^ Not a problem.
Massa can go to Mclaren, and McLaren can say goodbye to cry baby Alonso.