Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
Well unless they can get one of their "decent" customers to marry them.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
Ok heera mandi girls is a little far fetched PCG, not that it's an impossible scenario. It just sounds a little dramatic. But I know what you mean. What if a girl is forced into something taboo and must do it against her will to stay alive. So what about rape? If a guy knew that his fiance had once been raped would that change his view of her? What if she was a good person and he accepted he was ok that she's not a virgin, would he secretly think that maybe she wasn't raped but had consensual sex and just SAID she was raped? I wonder if that is the mentality of some Pakistani guys? Do they see a raped woman as a victim or as a seductress?
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
To be honest...i like to think im very flexible which i am...i value a girl who feels they can confide in me and be upfront with me about things...its not neccesary for you to tell me things...damn i dont need to know your sex history and dont need to talk about your ex...but i start getting annoyed when one acts on front of you as if they are the pinnacle of innocence...one girl who i met...pretty girl...fun to be around presented herslef in a manner which was false...for instance she acted as if she was a good muslim...didnt tend to meet boys etc...now as it happens my friend saw her at a club and she was embarrassed by the whole thing...it didnt bother me that she was at a club...i go clubbing...but it was the fact that she couldnt be up front about how she is...i dont expect a goodie too shoes...all i expect is someone honest who i can trust and feel comfortbale with...a popwe can work on ur bad points together...it shoudnt be a point of rejection...
what if we're talking about some heera mandi girl -
lol in terms of hookers though or someone who i feel has abused sex deliberately or not i dont think many men would deal with it...they wont have a positive view of sex and wont see it as intimate...i can never picture makinglove to a hooker no matter how many hindi films i watch...
I wonder if that is the mentality of some Pakistani guys? Do they see a raped woman as a victim or as a seductress?
btw we arent that bad...i dont know anyone that looks at a rape victim and assumes they must have been at fault...it would make me feel uncomfortable though...its just awkward having to deal with a rape victim...you cant imagine them having a positive view of sex so its just easier to avoid...no fault of the girl but you cant have a go at a man if he chooses to abstain...
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
ok the rape victim needs a thread of its own.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting…
You never forget when you know about someone else past forgiving is something else, you move on or find a middle ground as to which both partners find peace and live happily ever after.
Maddy, was that an effort on your part or theirs? 
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting…
Too much assumptions! It seems you gals sitting here know all.
I am sure lots of forgetting and forgiving goes on in Desi marriages as well. There are a hell of a lot of boys and girls who screw around before marriage in Pakistan, and we hear very few marriages being broken because of that.
I think many couples after knowing the truth stay quiet.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
Those gals who try to throw everything on males should know that most of the bad habits of our South East Asian society is because of the mentalities of our females, who do not want to come out of the dark ages.
Marriages go bad, divorces occur mainly because of the mothers & the mother-in-laws and the khalas and the phupis.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
Well but aren't the men the ones who harp on about how Islam has given them full control over family affairs and the last say in everthing...
So the man of the house is not able to make peace amongst the various women in his family?
Pshaw.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
I don't think its possible to know about a partners past and to not "remember". I don't think we are in a position to forgive, things happen - peopel do things with rationale that is beyond us at times - but there maybe many factors involved as to why.
Its the forgetting and being able to act as though everything is fine - that very few peopel are capable of. Either its tanai - or it comes back in arguments. imo.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting…
Did I bring Islam into any of the discussion? Culture always over-ride religion.
Do you realize what you just wrote? I shall let you think about the consequences.
What a man can do is keep an equilibirum? However, women do not want equilibrium. Every women wants the balance to be tilted on her side.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
lol i was just wondering there is no VIRGINTY thread in block today .. but here u go .. this dude had the courage to talk abt a PORNSTAR movie .. * YAAAAAAAY *
y u asking everybody brov ? ask ur self .. start taking it down to ur own family and if u feel ur arse burning , understand the answer is NO !!!
p/s: anyone seen indian movie JULIE ?
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
Yaar, if you really like someone. I mean really really like someone then nothing else will matter. If you marry someone cz of whatever reasons (other than personal liking) then a 100 questions like these complicate and confuse the one deciding to "pick" the other.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
**Did I bring Islam into any of the discussion? Culture always over-ride religion.
Do you realize what you just wrote? I shall let you think about the consequences.
What a man can do is keep an equilibirum? However, women do not want equilibrium. Every women wants the balance to be tilted on her side.**
Even if you leave out Islam, you'll find that our culture is way more male-domineering than Islam is. So your argument falls through the toilet.
If men are so "all that and a bag of chips" in our society, culturally and religiously (more so culturally), then they should be able to handle larai jhagray at home. Isn't that why culturally women are encouraged not to work? Because they just wont be able to handle the tough life outside?
Right, but these same women certainly can handle and can create a tough life at home, and there you see role reversal. The male is the helpless one in the middle of the torrential environment that women create at home, while woman is the helpless one in the middle of the torrential environment that men create outside of the home.
Obviously, daal mein kuch kaala hai. Either these men are not as efficient as they boast to be, or they really do not give women's fights at home that much importance. Either way, its definitely not that women are winning at home, and becharaa aadmi is totally helpless like a 10 year old boy.
Men need to grow up and learn to take control of their home environment, just like they take control of their work environment. You can run a sabzi shop on the corner of Taariq road, but you wifey should be in a burqa and never come out of the home? Fine, then you had better had the balls to keep your mother and sisters out of your marital business, and your wife out of your mom-sis's business.
Men go very wrong in this - they think that they can bring an outsider in (which essentially a woman is) into their home, and she'll adjust. Bloody hell, you people would sure as hell not adjust being a ghar damaad, how the hell do you expect a female to become your ghar ki naukrani for your family, and then her not raise hell every once in a while. Keep the wife in a separate place, and keep your mom and your sisters in a separate place. Voila - there will be less jhagray. But men aren't man enough to leave their moms and be independent, so what can I say? Its a doomed recipe for disaster.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
PCG: Sorry for coming back late to you. I was a bit busier in my job than usual.
Let me start by saying that I do not totally disagree with what you are saying. Our beliefs and our opinions are based on our perceptions of reality, our individual experiences, our environment, our logic, etc. So I am sure you, being a sensible educated person, are not making everything out of the air. I have my very own reasons for the thoughts I have, which include my limited personal experiences. My following opinions are not for those couples where either one of them is abusive. Because you have steered the discussion to the topic of combined family system, I am straying on that side as well. I don’t expect you to read through all this because it appears it will become a long reply.
OK! First of all, males definitely have gone WEAK and lots of problems are arising from that. While there are too many restrictions on women to let them do the right things, there is a bit of leniency in letting women do the wrong things. That includes indulging deeply into the lives of others. However, a direct positive result of males going weak is that women have more liberty and more power.
** Isn't that why culturally women are encouraged not to work? Because they just wont be able to handle the tough life outside?
**
True may be a couple of decades ago but not applicable now. This is only partly true in the current world. Another important reason is that women are much better at raising the family compared to a male member. Is that a male-pushed view that women are better at raising a family? It could be true, but not necessarily. Look at nature.
** Right, but these same women certainly can handle and can create a tough life at home, and there you see role reversal. The male is the helpless one in the middle of the torrential environment that women create at home, while woman is the helpless one in the middle of the torrential environment that men create outside of the home. Obviously, daal mein kuch kaala hai. Either these men are not as efficient as they boast to be, or they really do not give women's fights at home that much importance. Either way, its definitely not that women are winning at home, and becharaa aadmi is totally helpless like a 10 year old boy.**
** Men need to grow up and learn to take control of their home environment, just like they take control of their work environment. You can run a sabzi shop on the corner of Taariq road, but you wifey should be in a burqa and never come out of the home? Fine, then you had better had the balls to keep your mother and sisters out of your marital business, and your wife out of your mom-sis's business.**
I don't have the same observation as you have on this. I have seen people who are very strict with their sisters and are very lenient with their wives. How many women you see these days who are not allowed to go out of their houses? I believe their numbers is very small and only in uneducated families. Mothers and sisters meddling into the marital affairs is more to do with the female psychology than anything else. Mothers feel that they have raised their son and have full right over their son. Wives feel that they have married their husbands and they have full right over them. Neither of them is right. If you look at the bigger picture mother and sisters are also women.
** Men go very wrong in this - they think that they can bring an outsider in (which essentially a woman is) into their home, and she'll adjust. Bloody hell, you people would sure as hell not adjust being a ghar damaad, how the hell do you expect a female to become your ghar ki naukrani for your family, and then her not raise hell every once in a while. Keep the wife in a separate place, and keep your mom and your sisters in a separate place. Voila - there will be less jhagray. But men aren't man enough to leave their moms and be independent, so what can I say? Its a doomed recipe for disaster.**
Marriage is adjustment and compromise. It is absolutely essential that adjustment and compromise come from both the sides. If a girl thinks that she should not change after marriage because she has left her home and is at the losing end, then I think she is sadly mistaken. Rather she is bluffing herself. Doing house work does not make anyone a servant. In the same house, the mother and the sister work as well. Girls work in their parents’ houses. If she is not doing a job, there is work to be done at home. A man can proclaim in a similar fashion that he is not going to do any job as he is not a servant of all at home. It is not being a servant. It is about feeling ones own responsibility for the well being of the family. Plenty of families have servants to help out. Anyways! If someone is not comfortable with the option of living in a combined family system, they should not go for such marriages. Forcing your husband to leave his household after marriage is unethical.
Leaving parents after marriage is not a sign of manhood. In our culture, essentially after children, the sole life-purpose of parents is the best possible upbringing of their children and they do it very selflessly. You may not agree, but I think children can never be able to pay back to their parents whatever they do. A son can at least make sure that his parents pass relatively happy days before they depart from this earth. Anyways! A lot of people are separating from their parents after marriage because of one reason or another. Personally, I learned a lot from my grand parents (May they rest in peace).
Many times, though, it IS better to split to avoid the incessant bickering. Girls should realize, however, that when they are old women and when their sons will get married, the same thing will happen to them. Their beloved sons will leave them in their old age to live with a no-good girls they will call their wives. It all comes back.
The irony can also be observed that a wife herself is very vehement in getting separated from her in-laws, but at the same time force her brother to stick with their parents after marriage. Similarly, a mother who is very much for keeping his married son with her forces her own daughter to get separated from her in-laws. Somehow, they manage to bring-up the finer points which make the situation totally different for their own family.
Living alone does not reduce the number of quarrels. Only the nature of those quarrels changes. Actually, it is very normal to have quarrels whenever two persons are living together.
A man’s role is pivotal in the success of a combined family system. He needs to strike a delicate balance to keep everyone happy. A failure on his part will result in a lot of people being left unhappy. I give a very large part of the responsibility to the male member (almost twice that of the female 66%).
We all strive to be happy. Some succeed, some don’t. We all look forward to happiness in events which are going to happen in future. We think we will be happy when we are living alone, when we have a house, when we have a big car, when we have 1 boy & 1 girl, and blah blah. We attribute our happiness to something which we haven’t seen yet and thence we don’t realize the joys of things we have today.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
witchyyyyyyyyyy..... wat happened.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
I dont even remember what we were talking about. I'll get back to you in a week or two.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
i didn't read all the comments but i knew a couple of pakistani girls who were brought up in saudia arabia when they came to pakistan to go to college they went absolutely wild going to parties and even would tell us that they wanted to experience sex. anyways to make a long story short one of them got pregnant and "got rid of the situation" and her parents had to come and take her home for good. later i found out that her parents had paid for her to get a hymen repair surgery so she could get married off and no one would ever know that she wasn't a virgin. So i don't understand why people make such a big deal about a girl being a virgin or not when thousands of girls are having these surgeries now.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting…
Don’t bother. Enough of brawl on this.
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting…
Nangiyal: I just realized that now I have more posts than you. At the moment you have 520 and I have 521. 
Re: Forgiving and Forgetting...
thx witchy for reminding me...
pcg runs away with some future plans.
i likes sara's comments.