For the muslim members of GS

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Originally posted by anand: *
**Why you get angry so easily, dear Fraudia? You talk of peace! Can peace survive without patience?*

You misread me. I was asking for a halt to name calling and statements Like "people like Fraudia" etc because that is counter productive. I was niether impatient nor angry just informing you of my dislike for such statements.

Peace can not survive without patience, but it can not survive without mutual respect and understanding either.

*You have named one person or incident. Whereas in many of Islamic States your mosques are easily exploited for hatred. Am I wrong?
We cannot accept everything blindly but in practical it exposes entirely something different. *

sure, some mosques are exploited, If you go back and read any of my posts throughout this thread, or for that matter any post on this sibject on the board, you will find that I have always maintained that position.

*May be, you remember the scenario at Afghan-Pak border before the start of Afghan war. Thousands of Pak citizens were willing to enter Afghanistan to fight against your kafirs.
Pls do not tell me that those thousands were just individuals. *

Out of a nation of how many millions?

Would I judge hinduism or hindus by the riots run by RSS goons and simpletons falling for it and joining them in their carnage?..NO

*This is practical Islam, taught at mdrisa and mosques. *

Is what RSS teaches practical Hinduism? No..they have twisted it to fit their own bigoted views and bloody power games, the same way some forces have done with Islam.

Point being there is a minority of political minded idiots who have made a mockery of some institutions, their polarizing actions have impacted many other institutions too, but they still are in a minority.

Now that does not mean its not an issue which needs to be resolved, as I noted earlier, the regulation of madrissas like that of general schools will decrease the possibility of them being abused for some people's power mongering.

Anothert good step was banning of sectarian groups liek sipah e sahaba, I personally believe RSS/VHP needs to be banned and disbanded in a similar manner.

*o my question is going blank…….
Can someone name some churches, synagogues or temples where the priest reads political sermon and use the same ugly language for people of other religions as we come across in many of Islamic madrisas/ mosques? *

named a few names already

I named a few. and these entities/people ahve a much larger reach than that of a village madrissa even if it is run by fanatics.

lets start with

all of RSS/VHP and temples that support them. you may want to dig up the who's who list for the babri masjid incidence
Pat Robertson
Jerry Falwell
Frank Graham

I guess people can do some search and post more here.

22

Originally posted by MiniMe: *
**The second misconception is (among muslims as well) that mosques are some place where you are supposed to just worship is totally wrong. They need to read the islamic history and to see the role of masjid in islam. *

The masjid could and should be many things, religious congregation, social center, sports/activities, education, community center..etc etc etc.

Now the masjids where this lame posturing goes on, do you think they will allow the masjid to be used for anything else?

I have no issue with political activism, provided its done in a positiver and practical manner, and secondly if that is not the sole or main priority of the place. It should also fulfill many of the needs that the community has, some of which I just posted. Any group hijacking a community place like amsjid and using it as a platform for their own power games needs to be denounced and stopped.

so my issue is not with political activism, but that should not be the only, or the overarching activity. And even then, it should be done in a proper manner, screaming and yelling and inciting ppl does nothing.

*I think what Fraudia meant here was to teach people about the value of justice and then tell them to be witness to injustice, if this is what is going on in mosques then it is really BS. *

Not quite, teaching ppl about justice..or other topics like community relations, good character etc etc, should go on.

You want people to be active in removing injustice, provide a positive and productive venuwe for them to do it. Some run of the mill village mullah who has no concept of the rest of the world is niether a good poltical leader nor does he have real solutions. These people use a negative approach

*In mostly muslim populated countries, the mosque is the perfect public forum to speak and protest against injustice, in absence of any real representation of their sentiments if the imam spearheads this effort, I think it totally natural. *

natural but not always right. the mixing of political agendas, personal views and religion and then all of that being shaken, not stirred like a cocktaila nd handed to impressionable masses is how people are dumbed down, and that happens more often that I would like to see it happen. Mosques like that lose people who dont want to hear that political garbage and nothing else of value.

23

The idea for Musjids to be a political living-room is a good one, given that not just ONE voice is heard or encouraged. Nimazis should be allowed to shlup the shlang into Mulla's face, should he utter crap. Non-Muslims should be allowed to participate in the discussion as well (after the Nimaz, unless they want to pray along - if allowed).

I think, people are getting sick and tired of religious nonsense as it is, I don’t think folks go to mosque to discuss politics or society. I mean they have to be unemployed to spend that much time in the mosque. Folks go to bang their heads on the floor, and stick their arse towards heavens to get Allah's attention, and not Mullah's.

24

Let us talk of RSS, because whenever we question Islam, we are asked to compare it to RSS.
Yes, dear Fraudia, RSS is practical Hinduism. This dominating factor if not out rooted, will bring more and more harm to the Indian society. Gujarat scenario was a sample.

If an ideology can easily be exploited for killings, we must have courage to question that ideology and not find faults with the killer!
Have courage and find fault in the religion, I mean in the ideology behind killings!
Do not escape by blaming one hidden mullah!

Best rgds

25

^ hear Hear Anand. That is the point that seems to be missing. Relgiously inspired hatred shall not be tolerated.

26

Anand

there are items that seem questionable in every faith. whether or not one adheres to them is in one's power. whether they are misinterpreted, or whether they are questionable or confusing, one can choose to follow them interpret them or understand them as one chooses.

However they do not overshadow the overarching essence of every religion which basically wants people to live like decent human beings.

as far as RSS being practical hinduism, are you suggesting that that is the real face of hinduism, and any hindu who does not follow the RSS brand is on the wrong path based on hindu teachings?

Having some questionable things in hinduism does not make the entire religion useless, same goes for Islam.

What the people do is focus on some of these points and make them the driving force in what they are pursuing, while conveniently ignoring everything else that is written.

27

Fraudz, maybe you can shed some light on the difference.

In my understanding, politics and hinduism are totally separate concepts, governance is not part of spiruatlity. Those jackasses who demand political changes on the basis of hinduism are the shameful beings.

In islam, as Minime pointed out, there is no distinction between spirituality and governance. So the incitement of namazis based on religious scripture is more common place, therefor we see all the friday rallies. Do you think this is right or wrong. In my view this is as despicable as the rath yatra done by so called swamis to meet political ends.

28

CH

these clowns ranting and raving and inciting ppl is wrong. I noted that already. Fine have a political involvement but do it in a productive and positive way, and not let it become the primary mission.

Its interesting that some of these poltical-religious-power brokers have a view about global events and politics, but you will not find one of them talking about health concerns of their community, municipal services, educational budgets.

As I said, its their own hunger for power that prompts them to get into this role and that is the reason they resort to cheap tactics like "islam is in danger" or "islam is under attack"

I do not have an issue with political activism from religious institutions, it happens one way or the other, but meet your primary responsibilities and then if you are goign to be politicallya ctive, do it for the betterment of people and not for personal power.

These self declared defenders of the faith are cheating people because theya re not giving them what the people need, yet only push their own agenda by hook or by crook (pun intended)