Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
pardon me ......
Nobody is finding "faults" in Hinduism.
The tone of this thread is quite decent.
Once again, we are not finding faults....
We are NOT discussing Bhagvad Geeta
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
you highlight "name without any content" and after that you highlight statements like "who is hindu and what is hinduism", that too telling this to a hindu and also quoting "the negatives that are there in hinduism(which i accepted", and after that even telling "please note" "I have NOT yet tken any quote from any Non-Hindu..........", putting "NOT" in capitals and underlining the word **"yet" as if some more big faults of hinduism are yet to come that too from great peoples of other religions, **you talk of decency and also say that it didn't imply faults in hinduism......grrrreaaaaaaatttttt.
I only ask other hindus to ignore this and just move on. I already said, what people of other faiths think about my religion, its their opinion.
As some lajawab rightfully said in one of the earlier posts:
"yours religion is yours and my religion is mine".
Even if you seriously did not mean what i said above, you definitely didn't make it clear. finally if it was about "the definition of hinduism and its philosophy", is that what you meant?. I think i will not answer this due some other reason which i mentioned and if i answer, i know it will enter another loop.
You have an opinion about hinduism buddy...whether it was good or bad you decide. If it was not "for" hinduism" or either "against" hinduism, then there is no issue to discuss here and there was no need for you to post anything on this topic.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
My quotes are completely in reference to the topic.
It is your own suspicion pushing you to doubts. By saying "NOT yet taken any quote from non-hindu" was to support that even the Hindus are confused on its definition. Thats all. Had they been taken from a non-hindu (particularly a Muslim) personality, you'd have raised objection for "attempted insult" towrds Hinduism. Right?
If the quotes are wrong or I have manipulated them, then you can justify your claim. I have given complete reference to the source with then. You can check yourself.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
This is how Khushwant Singh attempts to define Hinduism
"Hinduism defies definition... It has no specific creed."
Khushwant Singh
India: An Introduction, New Delhi, 1990, page 19
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
I got your opinion. I also withdraw most of the things that i said in post # 82.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
Hinduism is a world of mysteries. Every other relegion for ex. Islam are easily to define but defining Hinduism is like reading Universal Mystical Encyclopaedia.
Some great people like Swami Vivekanada defined this relegion as -
“Hinduism is a way of life, you can teach it ,preach it, practice it, feel it and even love it without being a Hindu”.
Thats what the celebreties like George Harrison, John Lennon, Madonna etc. did. They practiced it without being a hindu. You dont have to be Hindu to practice Hinduism and thats the beauty of this relegion.
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/hinuisms-paganpractices.html
http://www.sugarplum-fairy.com/content/view/61/107/
There were some extreme things like caste system etc. which were introduced by some radical brahmans in the ancient times.Some Great men rised to erase these practices like Gautam Budh, Guru Nanak etc.
They created some phylosophies and gave a new light to this black corner. With the time Buddhism and Sikhism were formed from Hinduism without any declaration of new relegion. Thats why these relegions together share so much common preachings including Jainism.
The word Hindu is derived from Sindh, the people who used to live in and around the basin of river Sindh. Mauryan empire which was formed by King Chandragupta and further taken to the heights by Emperor Ashoka flourished the practices of this vedic culture and took its preachings to the rest of the empire.
The map you’ll see in this link was known as Bharatwarsh (The Indian World) or Akhand Bharat(The United India). Even today India is regarded as Bharatwarsh.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
ssn, that is like equating the tamil tigers actions with hinduism.
Tamil Tigers (Hindu group) have staged two thirds of all the suicide bombings in the world.
Should we equate their actions with Hinduism? No.
Therefore, its not a good idea to equate Islam with terrorism.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
To have a positive religion is not necessary. To be in harmony with yourself and the universe is what counts, and this is possible without positive and specific formulation in words.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God.
-Albert Einstein
Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.
-George Bernard Shaw
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
Munni,
I was responding to Farukhs reply which said 'It is no surprise that more and more Hindus are becoming secular'.
What is wrong in Hindus becoming secular. How does it threaten muslims? It is still better than more and more people becoming terrorists.
Again Tamil tigers is not a Hindu group. It is a language based outfit fighting for seperate homeland just like Sindhis or bangladesh. I think most hindus consider bhuddhists also as Hindus. They are not going to gain anything. The lady suicide bomber who blewup to kill rajeev gandhi was a christian..
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
indians have the right to define thier natianhood same way chinese,french
or americans in a secular way we dont have to justify our nation in terms of'
religen. all religens in indiahave agreed to folllow secular constitution after independance
this is not something imposed from outside or imposed from within.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
I also want to say one more thing. yes, hinduism defies definition. One definition simply defies the other. Accepted. HIndus have learnt how to live with it, without loosing the shelter of any religion or faith.
But I want hindus to be more open about conversion. When everyone else's definition of "success of religion" lies in number of people that convert into that religion, then we will have increase that number(may it's zero or even negative now). We should defy its current meaning what majority of hindus have. We should prevent what happened in Lord Jagannath temple in puri. We should prevent such custums. I know it's difficult, when so called "Low" caste hindus themselves are not allowed to come inside the temple in many cases. We should simply change this. We should encourage some one if he wants to come to our faith. But nothing by force.
I know it looks very arrogant, but when you look from the perspective of other religions, it definitely doesn't look arrogant and nothing wrong in it. But when hindus start doing this, i also fear, that hinduism will simply loose its value, perhaps in the eyes of many hindus themselves. But when people like bajrang dal are there it might have already started....i dont know. This may never happen also in future.
To be frank, some where down in my mind "I dont believe in conversion". You can draw any meaning from this sentence.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
actually it is good islam in india will strenthen our country by putting pressure on hinduism to refrom itself socially otherwise it will loose its dalit population of 300
million to other religens.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
It seem as though the discussion has taken another direction. Unless I've accidentally skipped some posts, I don't think all of my questions were answered in detail.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
^ Let me attempt to summerize the answer to one of your questions. Please read carefully.
Joseph Gaer lists some of the complexities of Hinduism:
Just as the attributes of the Hindu Triad multiplied until there were millions of them, and the castes divided and subdivided from the original four to a very large number, so also has this extremely old religion given rise to many sects.
There are sects who worship Vishnu as the god of space and time. There are sects who worship Shiva (or Lord Siva) as a god of song and healing. There are sects who worship Durga, the Divine Mother (goddess of motherhood). And there are many others. But all the various sects believe in: Brahman, the eternal Trimutri, or Three-in-One God: Brahma, the Creator; Vishnu, the Preserver; and Shiva, the Destroyer; Submission to Fate, since man is not outside, but part of Brahman;
The Caste System, determined by the Laws of Manu;The Law of Karma, that from good must come good, and from evil must come evil; Reincarnation, as a chain of rebirths in which each soul, through virtuous living, can rise to a higher state;Nirvana, the final stage reached upon the emancipation of the soul from the chain of rebirths;Yogas, the disciplines which enable the individual to control the body and the emotions; and Dharma, the Law of Moral Order, which each individual must find and follow to reach nirvana
SOURCE:
Joseph Gaer, What the Great Religions Believe **
**New York: Dodd, Mead, and Company, 1963, page 35
Because of its many complexities, Hinduism seemingly is impossible to summarize, as John Bowker observes:
To summarize the thought of any religion is difficult, but in the case of Hinduism it is impossible. It is the essence of Hinduism that there are many different ways of looking at a single object, none of which will give the whole view, but each of which is entirely valid in its own right. A statue may be viewed from many angles. Each aspect helps to convey what the statue is like, but no single aspect is able to comprehend the statue as a whole, still less does the act of viewing it from one particular angle or another constitute "the statue itself"
SOURCE:
John Bowker, Problems of Suffering in Religions of the World
London: Cambridge University Press, 1970, page 193
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
^ Thank you.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
Not all Hindus may accept authors opinion, but following article gives an overview of Hinduism
Hindus - Know Your Religion
by: Surin Usgaonkar on Mar 17 2006 7:34AM in Indology
Meaning of the word “Hinduu”: Contrary to the general belief “Hinduu” is not a Sanskrit word; it is Iranian in origin and used by emperor Darayas in ~300 BC to describe people who lived on the banks of Indus river (Sindhu river)
Meaning of Dharma: Meaning of “dharma” does not, in any manner, resemble the definition of “religion” as given by the Concise Oxford English Dictionary. The word dharma comes from a Sanskrit verb root (dhatu) “dhru” which means: to assist, to nourish and to support. Therefore, the word dharma (at best) translates as: “that which when adorned (by soul) assists, supports and nourishes the being while he/she wades through life (full of the vagaries of nature)”
Hindu Dharma is a misnomer. The correct phrase is “dharma of Hindus” meaning a way of life followed by people living on the banks of river Sindhu (Indus) in 300 BC.
What is Dharmashastra?: Dharmashastra is a systematic body of knowledge built on the experience of varied scholars of living in society at different points of time. It constitutes lessons of history, the cause and effect of human action/s, prevention and cure of varied kinds of pain and understanding the forces of nature with a view to forecast / predict their behaviour, their creation and destruction.
What is Dharmashastra of Hindu’s based on:
Vedas: there are four Vedas a. Rigveda b. Yjurveda c. Atharvaveda d. Sam-Veda.
Who wrote them: Authorship of Vedas cannot be attributed to one particular person or at a particular time. What is certain is Vedas were written prior to the epic poems Ramayana and Mahabharata. That could be before 5000 BC. It is important to know that out of many Rishis who composed Vedas Twenty-one of them were women.
Who brought them to current format: Mahrishi Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa (the same poet philosopher who wrote the Mahabharata) It is because of this he received his title Veda-Vyasa or Vyasa. [Sanskrit “vi”= to arrange and “as”= to recast; therefore, the compound word Vyasa = one who rearranged Vedas in the current format (divided one Veda into four and rearranged each of them in chapters)]
What do Vedas Contain: Vedas are composed of verses called “Rricha”. Each Rricha is composed in the lyrical format known as “Chanda” and can be sung. There are many lyrical meters, which are used in composing Vedas. Prominent among them are known as “Anushtup”, “Trishkuta” and “Gayatri”.
What do Rricha contain: A Vedic Rricha contains three parts 1. Vidhi = order or directive 2. Mantra = algorithm of performing (the act which is ordered) and large part is 3. Arthavaad = poetical imagery and motivational speech which motivates the being into following the order (vidhi)
How do you distinguish between these? The science of distinguishing the three parts of Vedas is known as Mimansaa (loosely translated as analysis) it lays down precise and methodical principles on the basis of which the Vedic Rricha is deciphered or understood. There are two schools of Mimansaa the first known as Jaimini’s “Purva-Mimansaa” – attributed to Vyasa’s pupil Jaimini and second attributed to Vyasa himself is called “Uttar Mimansaa” the latter is often referred in some literature (loosely) as Vedanta. Both of these sciences have been granted status of independent schools of philosophy (called in Sanskrit as Darshana). It is important to realize that both schools closely resemble in their body of knowledge with modern “Abstract Mathematical Analysis”. Those who have read Bertrand Russell’s “Principia Mathematica” would be amazed at striking resemblance.
What are the different schools of philosophy on which Dharmashastra is based ?
There are six different schools of philosophies on which this way of life is based 1. Uttar Mimansaa (of Vyasa) 2. Jaimini Purva Mimansaa 3. sage Vasishtha’s Nyaya Shastra (system of justice) 4. Sage Kanada’s Vaishashikha which proposes “parmanu-vaad”. A philosophical doctrine that engages in understanding the properties of manifested form by dividing matter into smaller and smaller particle till further division is not possible. 5. Sage Kapila & Sage panchashikh’s Sankhya Shastra: This involves epistemology of existence and holds enquiry into creation/destruction of the universe, true nature of God and anatomy of human sorrow. (Large part of Bhagvad Gita is based on Sankhya Shastra. For details see my paper on 6. Patanjali’s Yoga Sutra (now famous Indian Yoga) a philosophy that engages with facilitating relief from physical and mental trauma.
Two major Epics: Two major epics The Ramayana and The Mahabharata (Bhagvad Gita appears as a part of this epic in Bhisma Parva – i.e. The book 6) has had maximum impact on the spread of this philosophical thought. There is general consensus that Mahabharata was written in 3031 BC but the research in 1971 onwards indicates dates as old as 5563 BC (Dr Vartak et al – Scientific dating of the Mahabharata war)
What are Puraanas: Puraanas form the main body of the great Indian mythology. Puraan or what is known as mythological Sanskrit literatures speaks of importance of various concepts in the above philosophies in a form of metaphorical stories. They also are a vast reservoir knowledge of the five aspects viz. 1.sarga (evolution) 2. prati-sarga (re-evolution) ## 3 vaMsha (origins of deities) 4 manvaMtara (a particular era of approx 4.32 million years) and 5. vanshaanucarita (behaviour of various races at different points in the history). It was again Mahrishi Vyasa who collated this vast literature and classified them into eighteen Puraanas. These 18 Puraanas are further divided into three parts
1. Satvik (5) – associated with Lord Brahma, they are: Brahma , Brahmavaivarta, Markendeya, Vamana and Bhavishya
2. Rajas (6) – associated with Lord Vishnu, they are: Vishnu, Narad , Garuda , Varah , Pdma and Bhagvaat
3. Tamas (7) – associated with Lord Shiva, they are: Shiva, Linga, Skanda, Kuurma, Matsya , Agni and Vayu
Other resplendent treatises: 1. Manusmriti (date prehistoric) –advises human being on each of the activities in daily life, advises kings on the system of justice, lays down punishment for offences in the society and way of conducting a trial in court of law (it is still followed as a law book in island of Bali in Indonesia) 2. Arthashastra (300 –350 BC) of Kautilya – first ever consummate treatise on jurisprudence and science of governance and economics contains 6000 verses and is composed in prose as against most treatises which are written as lyrics. 3. Yandnyavalkya Smriti written by yogeshwar yadnyavalkya around 200 BC is a consummate commentary on all the religious aspects of the tradition of Hinduus 4. Sarvadarshansangrah : A complete treatise covering most of the philosophical aspects of the Dharmashastra of hindus written by two brilliant brothers Sayan and Madhav who were principle advisors to the Vijaynagar Dynasty in AD 1500
This essay will be incomplete without paying respect to humongous efforts of Guru Nanak (AD 1400-1500), Kabir (~AD1450 –1508) Saint Namdev (~AD 1300 ) , Saint Dyaneshwar (~AD1296) Saint Tukaram (~AD 1608 –1650) and many other less known poet saints across the nation who kept this great tradition of Aryans alive through difficult and dark period of Middle Ages and seven centuries of foreign rule over the sub-continent.
Last word: Only a pervert mind could have coined the phrase “Hindu Fundamentalist” In this vast ocean of philosophy there is no place for such a absurd term
Surin Usgaonkar, Mumbai
For festivals and Vratas visit my site www . sushama .net
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
hi Sadiyah,
it is very simple.....the concepts of conversion and proselytization do not exist with hindus. you will never find hindu preachers, you will never hear any hindu "dawah", you won't hear any hindu shahada or kalima, and as a result, you won't find hindus bragging about numbers of converts...because converting people is neither a goal nor a mission of hindus in any way. the idea that salvation is only possible through hinduism doesn't exist with hinduism - and that is the short answer and reason for all the above.
to answer your question about those who adopt hindu beliefs and how they practice. i have noticed that hindu "converts" are almost exclusively attracted to hindu philosophy, and ritualistic celebration like festivals or even idol worship and such are only embraced from a cultural perspective rather than religious.
please keep in mind that the religion of "hinduism" is comprised of 4 major devotional schools, and 6 major philosophical schools.
most hindu indians (by birth) are almost solely in the "devotional" camp with little knowledge or interest in the philosophies, and the outsider "converts" are almost solely in the philosophies camp. Of the 6 philosophical schools, there is one in particular called Uttara Mimamsa, commonly known by the name "Vedanta"...and that is by far the most adopted by outsiders.
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
<
<
I completely agree on this nikhil
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
Also, if Hinduism is a way of life, then it should be covering all aspects of how to lead one's life. Is such the case? If it is, then shouldn't there be teachings telling you what to do in most situations. If it does, do people follow it and could you give examples of such teachings where it shows how to lead one's life..
There is no ONE book that lays out the rules of life. There are all kinds of scriptures, some of them tell parables with a moral. These scriptures were not revealed to ONE person and then put down on paper. They are an amalgamation of thousands of years of life experiences and they were added onto through the ages. This is why a lot of the scriptures are dynamic in thier flow.. a lot of them reflect the social and political situation at THAT PARTICULAR TIME OF WRITING. For example the Laws of Manu.. that are quoted with relish by western and non hindu people. The laws of Manu are harsh towards women and are totally reflective of the time they were written. Since then much else has been written that negates what Manu said. The laws of Manu have been eclipsed by change in time and circumstances. There are other scriptures you can look at or follow if you do not agree with what Manu says. Hinduism lays great emphasis on individual beings making decisions on morality by themselves. The books are just pointers. This is why Hinduism is so inclusive of many sects and subsects and has remained dynamic through the ages.
There is the freedom given (implicitly not explicitly) to Hindus to follow the religion as a philosophy or as a way of life. Those that wish to treat the scriptures as gospel and live thier lives ritually just as described in the scriptures can do that. Those that wish to just take the essence of the scriptures are also allowed to do that and use that as a philosophical touchstone may do that too. Hinduism is quite laise faire in its application and it seems to work well since people can tailor it to thier needs. It can sometimes lead to strife (acute casteism etc), but people are given the freedom to make the good and bad decisions by themselves.
There is general concensus in the scriptures that Hindus are born and not made... in other words there is no ritualistic conversion. Anyone can live or think like a Hindu, but does not have to have a Hindu star pinned to his lapel to declare that he lives or thinks like a Hindu. If it makes someone happy to create a shiny star and create some sort of ritual to pin it on themselves they are free to do so. The more conservative Hindus will not consider it of any importance. They will appreciate that someone else appreciates thier philosphy or way of life but thats it.. no need to change themselves.
Apart from historic reasons of hindu/muslim strife, the families of your friends who converted may also be upset because conversion is so NOT a part of Hinduism, they do not know why anyone needed to or could convert.
Philosophy is simple.. there is some entity that created the world. Call it Eshwar or what have you. That is the BIG CHEESE. There are other dieties created to keep us all in place and upright moral citizens. These dieties live lives like us.. make war, have lovers, have fights, have children, hold jobs etc. These are called the Avatars (Krishna, Ganesh, Shiva etc). Indian Mythology is based on thier colorful lives. We learn from thier examples to lead our own lives. There is no... Krishna said to .. jump 3 times so we do it.... even the Gita is philosphical in nature. You do not have to do what it says in a literal sense. Idols of these Avatars are made and worshipped so that we always have an example close to us, something that reminds us to live good lives... something concrete to jog our conciense if we make wrong choices in life.
Reincarnation is a whole another kettle of fish. There is no concept of heaven (except as a place that gods build thier mansions) and hell or hell fire. If we make bad or immoral choices in this life we will come back to this earth as a less evolved being and will have to start from scratch to build up our good deed account all over again. There is always hope! The blameless ones slip out of the birth death cycle and attain nirvana. Not really sure where nirvana folks go... some nice carribean island perhaps.. that would be nice!
Re: Followers of Hindu philosophy
Mograkali, dude....you explained everything(including idol worship) in a nice and wonderfull way.