First example of terrorism in----

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Code_Red : A little respect please. Hazrat Usman(ra), like the other khulafa-e-Rahsedeen was one of the closest companions of prophet Mohammed(saw). Using words like "in-efficient" is being a little disrespectful.

I don't wish to stir any trouble with the shia community on this forum but I ask for some respect for the companions of Mohammed(saw) . If no good words can be uttered, then please don't utter disrespectful words either.

WaSalaam.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Nobody is questioning the stature of the Khulaafahs nor their piety and as far as that is concerned and their maqam those will always be the dearest and nearest to God. However, the Khullafahs were human and had weakness, they were not infalliable, Uthman (RA) was very compassionate and soft-hearted and while Ali (RA) his courage and bravery unquestioned were both poor administrators....and that is why most of the fitnas got out of hand during their Khilafaahs....

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

I said nothing disrespectful here. You need to accept the reality

I can never think of disrespecting any Sahabi.

Hazrat Usman(ra) was one of the closest companions and very pious one. But his method of governance was very lenient which gave free hand to troublemakers. And thus the fatefull events.

Those khawarjis need to dealt with iron fist, But he was lenient beyond the reason.

This are part of Islamic history, not my personal opinion.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

In-efficient was harsh word to describe a man who was a better man than you or I could ever be, Code_red.

Whilst I don't believe in hiding reality behind dogma, it is far more polite to say rephrase your words, to something such as "His ability to lead a nation was not as strongly developed as that of the other khulifah-ul-rashida."

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

No one would ever dream of describing Oliver Cromwell’s execution of King Charles as being an act of terrorism, though King Charles was the legal head of state of England and Cromwell was a rebel.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

The Khawarjis were not a problem that Hazrat Usman (ra) ever had to deal with. That sect only emerged after the Battle of the Camel, during Hazrat Ali’s (ra) period as Khalifah - they emerged from the group of Muslims who opposed, for religious reasons, his lenient peace terms with the rebels

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

What about William Wallace? :slight_smile:

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

maddie, so terrorism is only faith based and can not be of ethnic or political nature. Thank you for clarifying.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Now you’re trying to put words in my mouth. :hoonh:

Remember, now I’m close enough to drive down to where you are and wiggle my foot in your face :hoonh:

I’m arguing that there is a distinction between political assasination and terrorism. They are not the same thing. The former is motivated by greed for power and the latter by ideology,be it political, religious or ethnic.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Now you’re trying to put words in my mouth. :hoonh:

No I am asking you to state your position and clearly contrast between the two.

Remember, now I’m close enough to drive down to where you are and wiggle my foot in your face :hoonh:

make sure you bring a driver along cuz you cant drive back up with a broken foot :slight_smile:

I’m arguing that there is a distinction between political assasination and terrorism. They are not the same thing. The former is motivated by greed for power and the latter by ideology,be it political, religious or ethnic.

now as you said “the latter by ideology, be it political, religious, or ethnic” , now any of these can result in an assassination. greed for power and ideology are not mutually exclusive either.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Ideology is purer than and distinct from greed for power. With ideology, you seek the perceived greater good, with greed for pwer, you seek your own betterment.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Now that would be pure terrorism.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Another example of terrorism whould be when the Umat Of Rasul threw arrows on the dead body of Rasulallah’s (saww) grandson Imam Hassan Ibne Ali (as) on his Janazah. (read the islamic history) It was the first time in islamic history when a janazah had to return to home so the arrows could be pulled back out off the Dead Body of chief of youth of jannah. :mad:

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

so you have a greed for greater good. regardless..ideology and political power are not mutually exclusive.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Hi! Zer01,

This I have read in some books, that when hazrat imam Hassan JASD was taken to masjid e nabawi, to burry him beside prophet mohammed; then this WAQEYA of TIERS had happened. Um mul momemine hazrat Ayesha (R) said you can, not burry him here as I wpould never let hassan to be burried here as he is the son of my enemy ALi. So she prohabited by---- so then he was burried in janat tu baqie.

What what is the connection of this instance with terrorism ? I did not follow? she was angry with Ali because he had not let her win the war; which would have won if he would have not done JADOU on chamel by saying something in his ear; and he never got up , until hazrat ayesha stepped down. So she then decided to obey or you can say she favoured ali's MANTAQ. But she was angry with him all her life.

This waqeya is of different standard, hassan was already shaheed. No one killed any body that day.LAHMAEI FIKREYA so how can you call it terrorism.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Hi! Let Us Chat,

If one person had not gone for war being ill. and one daughter had been asked to stay with wife of prophet mohammed; um e salma (who was great grand mother of hussain's daughter), we do not argue for this that not all had gone to kerballa. also many sahabe e rasoul and ansare hussain or ahlul bait had gone to kerbala and were killed by opposition badh bakht. yazid's(LUA) army.

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Sorry Sokoon this ain’t true even by Shia standards because they too believe that the Prophets (Peace be upon all of them) do not leave any inheritance, full stop. See the following ahadith from Al-Kafi.

Al-Kulayni narrates in al-Kafi that: Abu ‘Abdillah (Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq) says that Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam said: “the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” Al Kafi Volume 1 page 42.

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of ‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah… And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no 2.

And tell me shouldn’t the Prophet’s (Peace and Blessing be upon him) wives also inherit him? Why are keeping them out of the inheritance? Why is that Hz. Fatimah (ra) is the only one to inherit him? Sounds very wrong, doesn’t it?

Could you provide the reference for the above statement, please?

That would have made her one of the richest ladies of Madinah. And this is miles away from the truth. She led a very austere and unworldly life.

It’s true that Hz. Khadijah (ra) was one of the richest ladies in Makkah but at the advent of Islam she used all her wealth in service of Islam. She did not hoard her wealth for individuals even if they be her dearest ones.

Who are these “Most of them”?

And these “Most of them” got their facts wrong because the first example of ‘terrorism’ that was carried out by Muslims was by Hz. Abu Jandal ibn Suhayl ibn 'Amr (ra), and Hz. Abu Basir (ra) and others as they used to terrorise and ambush the trading caravans of the Quraish in areas between Makkah and land of Sham (Present-day lands of Palestine, Israel, Jordan and Syria). As they could not live in Makkah and Madinah due the conditions stipulated in the Treaty of Hudhaybiyah

For more details see the link below:

http://www.alinaam.org.za/fazaail/jandal.html

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

Nice copy and paste job from Ansar.Org

Problem is that useless article has been refuted line by line here:

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/index.php

Enjoy.

Moreover NO hadith ot tradition overrides Qur’an, and Qur’an cites an example of a Prophet leaving inheritance. More proof that there is NOTHING that is missing or overlooked by Qur’an. But unfortunately more evidence of the corruption of certain companions :mad:

also check:
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/6.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/7.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/8.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/9.html

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Re: First example of terrorism in----

zer01 - It doesn't really matter about the source I get my info from.

Do you believe in the following hadith or not?

Al-Kulayni narrates in al-Kafi that: Abu ‘Abdillah (Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq) says that Rasulullah sallallahu wasallam said: “the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” Al Kafi Volume 1 page 42.

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of ‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no 2.

[QUOTE]
Moreover NO hadith ot tradition overrides Qur'an,
[/QUOTE]

In some instances the Prophet (saw) is a special case. The Quran says that a man can marry upto four wives at a time - and we know that Prophet (saw) had more than four wives at a time.

Anyway let's not divert from the topic and Fadak is not the issue.

Urghhhhhh
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Re: First example of terrorism in----

May be you are missing somethings…

These khawarjis were present at the time of Hazrat Usman and the threat was increasing day by day…

Most prominent Sahaba including Hazrat Ali (ra) advised him to take stern action against them and eliminate this fitna, but Hazrat Usman (ra) declined stating that he can not use force against Muslims…

I have read it in great details in book but here is one extract from Britanica online..

quote–

Islamic thought > Theology and sectarianism > The Khawarij

During the reign of the third caliph, 'Uthman, certain rebellious groups accused the Caliph of nepotism and misrule, and the resulting discontent led to his assassination. The rebels then recognized the Prophet’s cousin and son-in-law, 'Ali, as ruler but later deserted him and fought against him, accusing him of having committed a grave sin in submitting his claim to the…

–unquote

All the Noble Caliphs had to face very difficult times, But the most difficult was the time of Hazrat Ali(ra).

The most daring decision was taken by Hazrat Abu-Bakar(ra), to go all out against munkareen-e-zakat and false prophets. Even Hazrat Umar (ra) was reluctant