First Cousin Marriages...

[redvelvet]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

Give it a rest, Bob. You are so predictable that it’s not even funny.

NavAhmed, when you said that you “hope” Bob is not implying something, your hopes need to be dashed. You’re a fairly new member, so that makes you new to Bobby as well. If you were to do a search on this forum, you will actually find posts where he has mocked cousin marriages…where he has accused (without proof, yet again) that certain members that he does not get on with must be into cousin marriages or the product of inbreeding. Every few weeks, Bob brings up this topic. This is just a way for him to mock Islam under the thinly veiled guise of an intellectual debate. IF this was only meant to be healthy debate, then the OP would not be guilty of using the subject to deride others in the past.

I used to have a crush on my cousin for the longest time. He didn’t seem like a brother to me because I didn’t grow up with him. Now I wouldn’t marry a cousin because I don’t view any of them in a romantic sense, not even the one I formerly liked. But if someone is married to a cousin…it doesn’t bother me. I have several friends who are products of cousin-marriages, or who are married to a cousin and MashaAllah se have normal children. I remember my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Barber, told the class with no qualms whatsoever that Mr. Barber was her first cousin. They had two normal daughters and many normal grandchildren. In my paternal side if the family, there are no cousin marriages. On my maternal side, there is only one cousin marriage. Such marriages were never treated as a rule in my khandaan.

To my knowledge, Islam allows cousin marriages but it prefers and encourages marriages outside of the family. Islam does not treat such marriages as a rule and if some desis have made it the law for their khandaan…then religion is not to be blamed for that. Allah has given us options, but He has also given us aqal. People who treat this as a rule or law for their khandaan are not using their aqal…just as those who attribute every single cultural/familial belief or trend to Islam aren’t using their aqal either. Both of them reflect a bias or tunnel-vision.

[decentGuy]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

I’m totally fine with first cousin marriages.

[third_string]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

I’m not in favor of cousin marriages and it’s very rare in my family for people to marry a cousin however I wouldn’t call it disgusting, that’s offensive to the many people who have parents that are cousins or maybe they’re married to a cousin. Nobody would ever try to offend gays and trans people these days but it’s perfectly acceptable to insult people that were products of a cousin marriage.

[FreshBakedPi]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

Not in favour of this because of some of the issues Nav already brought up but also because I grew up really close to almost all my first male cousins and can only think of them as brothers because of that (and they’re all annoying lol). What others do is their own business!

[third_string]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@NavAhmed

It depends what do u mean by ‘here’. My parents were first cousins, so I hope you are not implying first cousin marriages are universally considered incest. I’m not sure if you know Muhammad (PBUH) and Zainab binte Habbash were first cousins, so were Ali and Fatema.

He’s not even Muslim lol, he says he’s an athiest and wanted to join some church on another thread.

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@FreshBakedPi

Not in favour of this because of some of the issues Nav already brought up but also because I grew up really close to almost all my first male cousins and can only think of them as brothers because of that (and they’re all annoying lol). What others do is their own business!

UK health system is going bankrupt, our friends who did cousin exchange marriages and they had two severely deformed kids who were institutionalised and lived around 16/18 years of age. Firstly it is horrific to allow that kind of suffering to happen and secondly the cost to tax payer is in several millions. As long as they get proper testing done and get tested right after pregnancy that should mitigate the ill effects. Generally inbred people will have weaker physical health also.

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@third_string

He’s not even Muslim lol, he says he’s an athiest and wanted to join some church on another thread.

That is correct, belonging socially to the church which displays kindness, acceptance and positively contributes to society is looking very inviting right about now> I was talking to john, he is the father of two female athletes and he says retired people contribute thru volunteering activities at Church. almost all the church goers are just culturally Christians. Christians did cousin marriages but they are not stubborn and given the scientific proof they backed off their cousin sisters.

[FreshBakedPi]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@Bobby1

UK health system is going bankrupt, our friends who did cousin exchange marriages and they had two severely deformed kids who were institutionalised and lived around 16/18 years of age. Firstly it is horrific to allow that kind of suffering to happen and secondly the cost to tax payer is in several millions. As long as they get proper testing done and get tested right after pregnancy that should mitigate the ill effects. Generally inbred people will have weaker physical health also.

I’m aware of all of this but even if you made it illegal tomorrow how the hell would you begin to enforce it? And what kinds of other civil rights infringements would be taking place to ensure the law was carried out. Its more complicated than just “eww gross” or “science says.”

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@third_string

I’m not in favor of cousin marriages and it’s very rare in my family for people to marry a cousin however I wouldn’t call it disgusting, that’s offensive to the many people who have parents that are cousins or maybe they’re married to a cousin. Nobody would ever try to offend gays and trans people these days but it’s perfectly acceptable to insult people that were products of a cousin marriage.

There are still parents who do genital mutilations, who marry 9 yr olds to 50 year olds, in India they married a girl to a dog, there are cannibal tribes and there are parents who believe in untouchables and my morality still feels it is awful. Didn’t ancestors rape and slaughter also. What kind of logic says that we should follow our elders morality. weren’t your ancestors hindus and now you berate hindus?

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@FreshBakedPi

I’m aware of all of this but even if you made it illegal tomorrow how the hell would you begin to enforce it? And what kinds of other civil rights infringements would be taking place to ensure the law was carried out. Its more complicated than just “eww gross” or “science says.”

The Baroness quoted in the OP says that DNA testing be done and all marriages should be registered. A society cannot function with moralities in conflict with each other. They just arrested some doctors for genital mutilations, for the doctors that is their cultural practice, here it is a crime.

[third_string]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@Bobby1

There are still parents who do genital mutilations, who marry 9 yr olds to 50 year olds, in India they married a girl to a dog, there are cannibal tribes and there are parents who believe in untouchables and my morality still feels it is awful. Didn’t ancestors rape and slaughter also. What kind of logic says that we should follow our elders morality. weren’t your ancestors hindus and now you berate hindus?

I don’t even know what you’re talking abour lmao, you’re mental.

[FreshBakedPi]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@Bobby1

The Baroness quoted in the OP says that DNA testing be done and all marriages should be registered. A society cannot function with moralities in conflict with each other. They just arrested some doctors for genital mutilations, for the doctors that is their cultural practice, here it is a crime.

Bobby1 I really don’t think it’s fair to compare genital mutilation to cousin marriage… come on now. It is problematic primarily if it is generation after generation… several posters here have said they are the product of such marriages and I don’t think that comparison does your argument any good. Mandatory DNA testing sounds a wee bit 1984 to me… I’m not interested in any government knowing that much about me or my body.

[queer]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

Bobby spouting Lebensborn ideas. Not surprised for the 36784783302th time.

[redvelvet]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@FreshBakedPi

Bobby1 I really don’t think it’s fair to compare genital mutilation to cousin marriage…

Not only unfair. It’s unintelligent.

Here you have a 50-some-year-old man who is soooooooooo concerned (sadkay jaaon) about the intellectual/cognitive development of children resulting from cousin-marriages…that he fails to see his own intellectual deficiency in placing such marriages and genital mutilation on the same level. Gotta love irony!

Cannibalism makes sense, too…you know…because marrying your cousin equates to killing and feasting upon them. And of course, one’s cousins are on the same level as a dog…so whether you marry a cousin or marry a chihuahua are really just tomato-tomaato..potato-potaato. I’m surprised he didn’t bring up the molested children this time. But it’s only a matter of time before he does that again.

GS is too small a platform for Bob. He needs to go on national TV where he will receive greater attention for his views. Maybe then he might wake up.

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@FreshBakedPi

Bobby1 I really don’t think it’s fair to compare genital mutilation to cousin marriage… come on now. It is problematic primarily if it is generation after generation… several posters here have said they are the product of such marriages and I don’t think that comparison does your argument any good. Mandatory DNA testing sounds a wee bit 1984 to me… I’m not interested in any government knowing that much about me or my body.

It might be extreme to you but for people who practice genital mutilation, it is very important. If only you had seen those two severely deformed kids who suffered indescribable suffering you would think it is quite serious. So thirteen times the birth defect rates are just pittance? you didn’t read the article so I will post it for you.

First cousin marriages in Pakistani communities leading to ‘appalling’ disabilities among childrenBaroness Flather, a cross-bench peer, says it is ‘absolutely appalling’ that first cousin marriages in Pakistani communities are leading to ‘so much disability among children’

US Homepage

Baroness Shreela Flather Photo: Nigel R. Barklie/Rex Features

By Steven Swinford, Deputy Political Editor

5:33PM BST 07 Jul 2015

Couples who are getting married should be forced to have a DNA test first to ensure they are not cousins amid growing concern about incest within Pakistani communities, Britain’s first Asian peer has claimed.

Baroness Flather, a former Tory who now sits as a cross-bencher, said in the House of Lords that it is “absolutely appalling” that first cousin marriages in Pakistani communities are leading to “so much disability among children”.

She said: "There are a lot of first-cousin marriages in certain communities, particularly among Pakistanis who come from the Pakistani Kashmir area. We know so much about DNA now, but there is so much disability among the children, which is absolutely appalling.

“You go to any such family and there will be four or five children, at least one or two of whom will have some disability. That is absolutely unacceptable, and if we cannot do anything about it, is it fair to the children?”

Baroness Flather, a former barrister who was born in the Pakistani city of Lahore when it was part of India, said: “Never mind the parents — it is not fair to the children that they should be allowed to become disabled because of a social practice. It is a social practice which does not belong in today’s age, when we know so much about DNA. There should at least be some rule which says that you must have a DNA examination before your marriage can be registered.”

First-cousin marriages, which are are legal in the UK, are practised within Britain’s Pakistani community, as well as among some Arab and African families.Medical data previously suggested that while British Pakistanis were responsible for 3 per cent of all births, they accounted for 30 per cent of British children born with a genetic illness.
The noble Baroness Flather also raised concerns about Sharia law, under which women struggle to get a divorce.

[NavAhmed]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@redvelvet

You’re a fairly new member

I may be new but I can read everyone’s game.

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@NavAhmed

I may be new but I can read everyone’s game.

You got a really big game going on too…young man. Mine is just sharing my ideas, what is yours?

[NavAhmed]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@Bobby1

You got a really big game going on too…young man. Mine is just sharing my ideas, what is yours?

I don’t have any game. I don’t have any agenda. To be honest I came here for someone. But then I realised there is more to this place then just one person. I made some very good friends, shared ideas, had meaningful insightful discussions. I even like some of what you say but I will aways point out what I don’t agree with. Let me tell you one thing, the most intelligent of people don’t go round insulting and abusing others. They always try to have a civilised dialogue and if there is stalemate, they just leave the things the way they are and move on. Then there are people who are driven by personal ideology and agenda, them people will go to extreme lengths making arguments after arguments to facilitate their agenda as that is the main reason they started the dialogue, not to have an interesting and meaningful discussion but to impose their own agenda and fulfil their ulterior motives.

[Bobby1]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@NavAhmed

I don’t have any game. I don’t have any agenda. To be honest I came here for someone. But then I realised there is more to this place then just one person. I made some very good friends, shared ideas, had meaningful insightful discussions. I even like some of what you say but I will aways point out what I don’t agree with. Let me tell you one thing, the most intelligent of people don’t go round insulting and abusing others. They always try to have a civilised dialogue and if there is stalemate, they just leave the things the way they are and move on. Then there are people who are driven by personal ideology and agenda, them people will go to extreme lengths making arguments after arguments to facilitate their agenda as that is the main reason they started the dialogue, not to have an interesting and meaningful discussion but to impose their own agenda and fulfil their ulterior motives.

If the agenda involves fighting cancers of the society, opposing child marriages, abusing women, slaughtering and raping minorities then hell yeah guilty of having an agenda. Why would you stalk someone over a forum, that is nooby as chit. Maybe you should ask lil Harris to teach you some game, Even Safy asks him for advice. Honestly call him, that kid is amazing…

[NavAhmed]

Re: First Cousin Marriages…

@Bobby1

If the agenda involves fighting cancers of the society, opposing child marriages, abusing women, slaughtering and raping minorities then hell yeah guilty of having an agenda. Why would you stalk someone over a forum, that is nooby as chit. Maybe you should ask lil Harris to teach you some game, Even Safy asks him for advice. Honestly call him, that kid is amazing…

Not me Bobby, not me