Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Fierce fighting raged in Lebanon on Wednesday as an international conference opened in Rome on how to end Israel’s 15-day-old war with Hizbollah guerrillas.

Al Jazeera television said 13 Israeli soldiers had been killed during clashes with Hizbollah guerrillas in a south Lebanese village. Israeli medics reported heavy casualties.

Hizbollah sources said their fighters had foiled Israeli attempts to evacuate casualties from Bint Jbeil, four km (2.5 miles) inside Lebanon. “Our men can hear the screams of their wounded calling for help,” one source said.

If confirmed, the death toll would be the heaviest suffered by Israel’s army since it launched an offensive against Hizbollah two weeks ago. Thirteen Israeli soldiers were killed in an ambush in a refugee camp in the West Bank in April 2002.

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&story
ID=2006-07-26T112055Z_01_L21898716_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml
&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage4](http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-07-26T112055Z_01_L21898716_RTRUKOC_0_US-MIDEAST.xml&pageNumber=0&imageid=&cap=&sz=13&WTModLoc=NewsArt-C1-ArticlePage4)

lets hope Israel didnt think Hizbullah would be a piece of cake. It seems they’ve bit off alot more than they could chew.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

As I said from the very beginning there will be one humiliation after another for Israel, as it will never defeat Hezbollah. The IDF has been fighting for 4 days for control of just one Lebanese town - Bint Jbail, and it is suffering huge casualties already. It is no wonder they don't dare try to invade the whole country as they threatened initially, as that sure would open the "gates of hell" for the zionist state.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

What i find surprising is Israelis are ‘stunned’ that its air war did not destroy Hezbullah. They obviously miscalculated badly because hezbullah hasnt been affected at all…

** Israel’s military stunned by the failure of its air war**

Friday, July 21, 2006

TEL AVIV — Israel’s new chief of staff, an air force general, believed that most of Israel’s future operations would be conducted from the air.

Military leaders were convinced that with superior communications and air power they did not even need new U.S. “bunker buster” munitions to root out terror leaders in underground hideaways.

Today, this vision of air power as a panacea has been shattered. Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz and his advisers have been stunned by the failure of Israel’s air war against Hizbullah, which has shrugged massive air bombings on its headquarters in Beirut to maintain the rocket war against the Jewish state.

“Air power is not the answer here,” a senior officer said. 'You have to go from one Hizbullah [weapons] bunker to another. Some of these bunkers are seven meters deep and can’t be destroyed by aircraft, even if you could find them."

The air force learned that lesson in Beirut as fighter-jets sought to destroy Hizbullah headquarters, Middle East Newsline reported. Officials acknowledged that 23 tons of munitions failed to penetrate the thick walls of the underground command headquarters constructed by Iran.

Indeed, the air force did not even deem the purchase of deep penetration munitions a priority. Earlier this year, Israel decided against purchasing U.S.-origin bunker-buster weapons regarded as a requirement for any air strike against Iran or Syria.

Military sources said Halutz was convinced that communications and air power rather than troops would rapidly win Israel’s wars. They said the air force was surprised by its failure to halt or even reduce Hizbullah rocket strikes.

Only a month ago, Lt. Col. Itay Brun explained the concept of Israel’s military. The concept envisioned an army based largely on special operations units and backed by air power.

As Brun described it, most of Israel’s operations would be conducted from the air. Fighter-jets would destroy guerrilla strongholds, helicopters would pick off enemy combatants while unmanned aerial vehicles would select and track targets. Most of the tactics would also be used in a conventional war.

“The next challenge is to win the war against terrorism and guerrillas from the air,” Brun, adviser to Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, told a military conference.

But he General Staff quickly learned that Hizbullah was not a Shi’ite version of the Palestinian insurgency in the Gaza Strip. For years, the air force boasted of its ability to kill Palestinian insurgency leaders while glossing over the failure to halt missile strikes from Gaza towns only three kilometers from Israel.

“We are fighting a much more capable [Hizbullah] terror organization which practically holds a sword to our neck and has 12 percent of the Israeli population living in shelters and paralyzes the entire northern part of the country,” Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan said.

“As aggressive and effective as the air war has been, there is still a need for ground operations,” Maj. Gen. Benny Ganz, chief of the Ground Forces Command, said.

As a result, the General Staff has approved the entry of at least 5,000 troops in Lebanon in a limited search-and-destroy mission for Hizbullah rockets in villages near the Israeli border. So far, about 3,000 soldiers have been deployed in southern Lebanon, where attack aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles failed to detect and battle Hizbullah fighters in the thick hilly underbrush.

On Friday, two AH-64A Apache attack helicopters crashed in northern Israel near the Lebanese border. The military said a pilot was killed and another four soldiers were injured as the helicopters sought to support troops in Lebanon.

As the air force received 60 percent of the military budget, army training was cut to the bone and the armored corps was significantly reduced.Reservists forgot what the inside of a main battle tank looked like. Army supplies dwindled way past the danger point as military intelligence dismissed the prospect of a conventional war against Israel.

Over the last two years, the Ground Forces Command has been administering the Digital Army Program, a nearly $1 billion effort to link ground forces assets to ensure situational awareness as well as coordination with the air force and navy.

Today, Israel’s advanced technology has been unable to detect, let alone stop Hizbullah assaults. Military sources said Hizbullah quickly developed methods to penetrate Israel’s C4I [command, control, communications, computers and intelligence] border system, based on advanced sensors and heavy air surveillance.

Hizbullah, the sources said, learned how to disable cameras and exploit blind spots to cut through the border fence and attack Israeli military positions. They said this was how a small Hizbullah force attacked an Israeli border post on July 12 and abducted two soldiers.

The military acknowledged that for more than one hour commanders were unaware that soldiers had been taken to Lebanon. Commanders said they were caught off guard by Hizbullah’s mastery of anti-tank weapons, mortars and platoon-sized maneuvers.

“It may be that we don’t have our priorities straight,” said [Res.] Maj. Gen. Yiftah Ron-Tal, who until 2005 headed the Ground Forces Command.

To some strategists, the Israeli concept of air power was doomed to failure. In a lecture at Tel Aviv University in March, [Res.] Maj. Gen. Yaakov Amidror, a former head of military intelligence research, warned that ground forces and tanks have remained far more flexible and resilient than aircraft.

“The policymakers must understand the limitations of the air force,” Amidror said. “My feeling is that the air force does not sufficiently stress its weaknesses.”

In a report released on July 19 by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs, Amidror and co-author Dan Diker argued that Israel could be forced to convert its air war to a ground war in Lebanon. The report, entitled “A Strategic Assessment of the Hizbullah War: Defeating the Iranian-Syrian Axis in Lebanon,” asserted that Israel underestimated the Iranian-sponsored Shi’ite militia, trained and equipped by Damascus and Teheran.

“This is a war in which Israel is acting primarily through its air force, which is a new approach,” the report said. “However, if Israel’s air force fails to stop Hizbullah rocket assaults, Israel may be forced to send in substantial ground forces to control the areas from which rockets are being launched. This real possibility would have far-reaching implications in terms of potential losses for the IDF and for the citizens of Lebanon.”

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2006/me_israel_07_21.html

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Israel is conceding that "there have been 20 casualties" in the Bint Jbail fighting. How humiliating.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

They were showing Lebanonese casulties on TV and not a single one of them was Hizb. If US could not win in Vietnam and NK than Isreal don’t even count.. Oh well I thought they would have learned their lessons from their last humiliation in S. Lebanon.

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

14 Israeli troops killed in clashes with Hezbollah
[News update: 15-20 PST, 26th July 2006]

BEIRUT: Hezbollah guerrillas put up fierce resistance against Israeli troops trying to take over a key southern Lebanese stronghold on Wednesday, killing as many as 14 Israeli soldiers, Arab media reported.

A Dubai-based satellite TV channel said at least 14 Israeli soldiers had been killed in the fighting for control of Bint Jbail, a town that has symbolic importance to the militant group as one of the centers of resistance to the 1982-2000 Israeli occupation.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

**
The Israeli military said there were 20 Israeli casualties, but it would not say if any soldiers had been killed.

Israeli TV reported 13 casualties, but was not more specific. Israel Radio said “at least 10 Israeli soldiers had been hit” in heavy fighting against 200 Hezbollah guerrillas in the town. The radio did not specify if any Israelis were killed.

**
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4073092.html

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

I think the tally of dead Israel soldiers must be about 40 or so now - in just two weeks of fighting. Not forgetting all those copters, tanks and a ship that have been blasted by Hezbollah as well. :k:

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

any idea how many Israeli soldiers have been killed so far to rescue the 2 soldiers?

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

celebrating deaths of anyone is against forum rules folks

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Instead of your empathy being engaged, you are celebrating that your forces are stronger than theirs. As pathetic as what they do isn't it? When does the cycle of "I'll show them!" stop? When both sides are in shreds?

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Hmmm.....

except for the tabloid journalism of Al-Jazeera and Al-Manar, I havent read anywhere about the deaths of 13 Israeli Soldiers.....

It basically states that 30 Israeli Soldiers were wounded

even BBC, MSNBC, FOX News, CNN, ITN, BskyB, and others have not reported this....

or could this be just hear say and Arab Media reported these so called glorious feats which have no basis in reality

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

About 40, if we include the massive losses in the Bint Jbail battles.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

**In the latest fighting, up to 13 Israeli soldiers were reported killed in southern Lebanon on Wednesday.

Israel has not confirmed any deaths from among its soldiers, but says there have been 20 casualties in the clashes around the town of Bint Jbail. **

BBC News

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5217176.stm

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

dude you really ought to think for a change before you post.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060726/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

So what are the rules on starting new threads on this conflict? The number of Jews killed?

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

I guess if they can celebrate dead Jews, then I can post the number of dead Hezbollah and Hamas Terrorists and celebrate that too

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Who here is celebrating? There is a difference between celebrating and posting articles.

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Reza Pelhavi, Ma Mooli

Re: Fierce fighting in Lebanon as 13 IDF soldiers killed

Can you quote them celebrating in this thread?