FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

[ravage]

This is an interesting departure from your run of the mill headlines. FIA has arrested someone for an email sent to Ansar Abbasi, described as blasphemous (with respect to the Prophet).

Freedom of thought and expression vs banned thoughts. You would think a journalist would side with freedom of expression, instead of getting agencies to act against an individual for a private communication.

Incidentally for people reading this in Pakistan, you’d best be careful what you say on this forum too.

FIA nabs person spreading blasphemous thoughts through Internet

[junaid001]

@ravage

This is an interesting departure from your run of the mill headlines. FIA has arrested someone for an email sent to Ansar Abbasi, described as blasphemous (with respect to the Prophet).

Freedom of thought and expression vs banned thoughts. You would think a journalist would side with freedom of expression, instead of getting agencies to act against an individual for a private communication.

Incidentally for people reading this in Pakistan, you’d best be careful what you say on this forum too.

FIA nabs person spreading blasphemous thoughts through Internet

well if someone insulting him or being pain what could he had done…

by the way i think arresting him was harsh, i mean what you can do with a learned lunatic.

[ravage]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

ignoring isnt an option?

[Spock]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

^ What Ansar Abbasi or the FIA did was ATLEAST exercising the law as defined by the legislature as far as threats and blasphemy are concerned. Why dont you create such threads and protests when certain influential people who are supposed to be behind bars get acquitted because of illegal presidential pardons go and kill more people, including those that enforce the laws.

No, we must find fault with the helpless law abiding journalist who sought the help of the authorities!

p.s. anyone who disrespects the Prophet pbuh in Pakistan, through flyers, emails, SMSes whatever isnt above the law... He should be given a fair trial and punished if found guilty.

[ravage]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

a) What I choose to create threads about is not at issue. Feel free to speculate on your own time.
b) What is so 'helpless' about the journalist? What does that even mean?

Now to the relevant part of your post.

This is a freedom of speech issue, infact it is not even that. It is an ethical issue. An email is a private communication between two individuals. Unless the 'blasphemous thoughts' also included nuclear codes the federal govt has no business whatsoever arresting anyone. Whether such actions have the protection of the law is also irrelevant. Plenty of draconian laws exist or existed for clamping down free expression, and ALL of those are ridiculous.

[vigoratus]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

hmm On the one hand it is wrong as a matter of privacy between one respected journalist and anyone, and then information to be deliberately leaked.

On the other hand is the sensitive issue of remarks against the Prophet in a country that is supposed to be Islamic Republic of Pakistan.

Any chance the public would get to read what was actually sent? So as to draw a conclusion and avoid sensationalism?

[ravage]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

^ that would be illegal wouldnt it, since its subjudice.

But lets say the person did say something offensive about the Prophet. Do you think a private communication to a journalist, with no apparent intention of propaganda etc is grounds for, at most, killing the guy?

We talk a good game about having an opinion living in western countries, and recently Muslims have been very critical on relatively minor curbs on freedom for Muslims. Minor in the sense of penalties, deportation, maybe some prison time. Can you imagine being sent to prison for life, or being killed, for a private email?

[dhanya_podena]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

i agree with vigo that its hard to give a verdict without knwoing the details of the e-mail. And i find it confusing why the news item uses the word "blasphemous Thoughts"?

And from the news it appears that it was not really a "private converstaion" but guy was sending e-mails to Abbasi, but we can't be sure.

[vigoratus]

^ that would be illegal wouldnt it, since its subjudice.

But lets say the person did say something offensive about the Prophet. Do you think a private communication to a journalist, with no apparent intention of propaganda etc is grounds for, at most, killing the guy?

We talk a good game about having an opinion living in western countries, and recently Muslims have been very critical on relatively minor curbs on freedom for Muslims. Minor in the sense of penalties, deportation, maybe some prison time. Can you imagine being sent to prison for life, or being killed, for a private email?

Yes, on purely ethical grounds, it is wrong. It should not be done. Whether it's illegal, i'm not so sure about that. Because this is a type of conversation that is often used to serve news in the media, or as the famous line often reads "an inside source has revealed".

On the other hand, we cannot be absolutely sure that the accused was not actually harrassing the journalist but repeatedly sending the same type of emails which contain blasphemy. The accused may very well have been warned that such emails can be releaved and will land him/her in trouble.

It really is hard to say at this point in all honesty. More needs to be known about it to say much on it. But based on what is known, i'd say it's both wrong and right. Wrong from a privacy perspective, and right from a law-abiding perspective.

Totally irrelevant/unrelated, but a close example:
Legally you can tell your lawyer about your past "misdeeds" and he/she will hold it in confidence, but if you tell your lawyer about something you're going to do, he/she is obligated to report you. (Just thought i'd put that there, as to give it a legal perspective)

[ravage]

Yes, on purely ethical grounds, it is wrong. It should not be done. Whether it's illegal, i'm not so sure about that. Because this is a type of conversation that is often used to serve news in the media, or as the famous line often reads "an inside source has revealed".

I believe it is perfectly legal. In Pakistan people have very little privacy rights, and Im sure blasphemy would legally take precedence. In this case I think the laws themselves are idiotic. As for whether this is used to serve news in the media, its unlikely since Abbasi is an editor in the said newspaper. The story might be incomplete, but I dont believe it to be false.

[quote]

On the other hand, we cannot be absolutely sure that the accused was not actually harrassing the journalist but repeatedly sending the same type of emails which contain blasphemy. The accused may very well have been warned that such emails can be releaved and will land him/her in trouble.

[/quote]

I dont mind granting that he was being harassed.

How difficult is it to shake off an email harasser? With modern technology such as "Report Spam" and "Block this address" he could've simply chosen not to listen if he was so being harassed.

Imagine someone in GS administration. I believe they recieve their fair share of bs pms. I've seen people being banned because of such behavior. Is the appropriate response to get the govt to kill the guy or imprison him for life, even if that were legal?

[quote]

It really is hard to say at this point in all honesty. More needs to be known about it to say much on it. But based on what is known, i'd say it's both wrong and right. Wrong from a privacy perspective, and right from a law-abiding perspective.

[/quote]

Lets say privacy, freedom of speech, ethics and legality are at issue. If the state has laws, such as 'report all the Muslims to concentration camps', the ethical thing to do is not blow the whistle.

I dont believe you are compelled by law, even in Pakistan, to report such behaviour.

[quote]

Totally irrelevant/unrelated, but a close example:
Legally you can tell your lawyer about your past "misdeeds" and he/she will hold it in confidence, but if you tell your lawyer about something you're going to do, he/she is obligated to report you. (Just thought i'd put that there, as to give it a legal perspective)
[/QUOTE]

Not sure why its close.

[vigoratus]

I believe it is perfectly legal. In Pakistan people have very little privacy rights, and Im sure blasphemy would legally take precedence. In this case I think the laws themselves are idiotic. As for whether this is used to serve news in the media, its unlikely since Abbasi is an editor in the said newspaper. The story might be incomplete, but I dont believe it to be false.

I don't believe it to be false either, but the depth of issue needs to be known. For the sake of curiosity for the public (like yourself and me), and from a legal p.o.v. when the case heads to Court. The more is known the more transparent the process would seem. Document should be made public.

[quote]
I dont mind granting that he was being harassed.

How difficult is it to shake off an email harasser? With modern technology such as "Report Spam" and "Block this address" he could've simply chosen not to listen if he was so being harassed.
[/quote]
The article states that Ansar Abbasi reported the email to his upper management, and it was the upper management that decided to go after the sender by collecting information via IT wing of the paper, and handing over the information to FIA/Police. Not sure Ansar Abbasi himself pursued them to arrest him. Intent probably was to have action taken, but wouldn't that be assumption?

[quote]
Imagine someone in GS administration. I believe they recieve their fair share of bs pms. I've seen people being banned because of such behavior. Is the appropriate response to get the govt to kill the guy or imprison him for life, even if that were legal?
[/quote]
I agree, it sounds ridiculous.

[quote]
Lets say privacy, freedom of speech, ethics and legality are at issue. If the state has laws, such as 'report all the Muslims to concentration camps', the ethical thing to do is not blow the whistle.

I dont believe you are compelled by law, even in Pakistan, to report such behaviour.
[/quote]

Yes, true. But again, was he under an obligation? The nature of email needs to be known. You can understand that Pakistanis tend to be very emotional when it comes to faith and in particular issues involving the Holy Book and Prophet (pbuh), so emotions and immediate reaction may have played a part in decision taking.

Otherwise i do not know much about Pakistani laws about such things. I will go along with what you say. Ethically he should have blocked the sender, and junked the mail as "another day at work". Emotions may have played a role (though they should not have, being at work in professional zone of mind).

[quote]
Not sure why its close.
[/quote]
Just a random analogy, that maybe his work requires him to report certain things as a matter of policy. just a thought

[Spock]

I dont mind granting that he was being harassed.

How difficult is it to shake off an email harasser? With modern technology such as "Report Spam" and "Block this address" he could've simply chosen not to listen if he was so being harassed.

You are talking about Ansar Abbasi here, the man who 99% of the politicians hate more than anything for his honest and groundbreaking investigative journalism. If he gets a threat, be it phone call or email, he would naturally bring it out in the open because of the risk factor associated with it.

[quote]

Imagine someone in GS administration. I believe they recieve their fair share of bs pms. I've seen people being banned because of such behavior. Is the appropriate response to get the govt to kill the guy or imprison him for life, even if that were legal?

[/quote]

Stop making a mountain out of a molehill, who said that person was going to be 'killed' or imprisoned for life. I am sure he will get a chance to defend his actions, and enter a plea deal if found guilty of whatever crimes he committed.

[ravage]

I don't believe it to be false either, but the depth of issue needs to be known. For the sake of curiosity for the public (like yourself and me), and from a legal p.o.v. when the case heads to Court. The more is known the more transparent the process would seem. Document should be made public.

sure. i dont think it matters what he said though.

[quote]

The article states that Ansar Abbasi reported the email to his upper management, and it was the upper management that decided to go after the sender by collecting information via IT wing of the paper, and handing over the information to FIA/Police. Not sure Ansar Abbasi himself pursued them to arrest him. Intent probably was to have action taken, but wouldn't that be assumption?

I agree, it sounds ridiculous.

[/quote]

Lets agree that whoever pushed for the course of action taken acted ridiculously, whether it be Ansar Abbasi or upper management of the news.

[quote]

Yes, true. But again, was he under an obligation? The nature of email needs to be known. You can understand that Pakistanis tend to be very emotional when it comes to faith and in particular issues involving the Holy Book and Prophet (pbuh), so emotions and immediate reaction may have played a part in decision taking.

Otherwise i do not know much about Pakistani laws about such things. I will go along with what you say. Ethically he should have blocked the sender, and junked the mail as "another day at work". Emotions may have played a role (though they should not have, being at work in professional zone of mind).

[/quote]

As you say, emotions shouldnt play a role here.

[ravage]

@Spock

You are talking about Ansar Abbasi here, the man who 99% of the politicians hate more than anything for his honest and groundbreaking investigative journalism. If he gets a threat, be it phone call or email, he would naturally bring it out in the open because of the risk factor associated with it.

There is no basis for suggesting any threat. The only thing mentioned in the article are ‘blasphemous thoughts’. As you say, if he recieved a personal threat, be it phone call or email, he would naturally bring it out in the open because of the risk factor associated with it. He did not bring out in the open any such threat

Stop making a mountain out of a molehill, who said that person was going to be ‘killed’ or imprisoned for life. I am sure he will get a chance to defend his actions, and enter a plea deal if found guilty of whatever crimes he committed.

Read up a little bit on blasphemy laws in Pakistan (established by Zia). As for plea deals and whatnot according to Federal Sharia Court, even life in jail is too good, and the only correct thing is the death penalty. Some relevant reading:

In October 1990, the FSC ruled that § 295-C was repugnant to Islam by permitting life imprisonment as an alternative to a death sentence. The Court said “the penalty for contempt of the Holy Prophet . . . is death.”

[Spock]

@ravage

There is no basis for suggesting any threat. The only thing mentioned in the article are ‘blasphemous thoughts’. As you say, if he recieved a personal threat, be it phone call or email, he would naturally bring it out in the open because of the risk factor associated with it. He did not bring out in the open any such threat

Bringing it out in the open doesnt mean barking about it like Altaf Bhai. Ansar is a smart guy, and he did the right thing, in addition to the authorities he must have taken the higher ups at Jang in confidence. If something were to happen to him, I am sure he will leave behind clues.

Read up a little bit on blasphemy laws in Pakistan (established by Zia). As for plea deals and whatnot according to Federal Sharia Court, even life in jail is too good, and the only correct thing is the death penalty. Some relevant reading:

No one really follows laws in Pakistan. When pardoned MQM murder convicts can come out and murder people again in Karachi, you expect this to go through LOL! As for blasphemy, this chap should have thought about the consequences of insulting the Prophet pbuh before he sent out those emails . In Pakistan, you insult the Prophet pbuh, you get in trouble, SIMPLE.

Lastly, since Ansar Abbasi is more of a political personality with hardly any religious thoughts in his work, you can be sure there was more than just religious blasphemy in his email(s). Remember, when Khasi Zafar openly insulted Ansar Abbasi on the air, Ansar kept his cool and wasnt provoked one bit.

[ravage]

@Spock

Bringing it out in the open doesnt mean barking about it like Altaf Bhai. Ansar is a smart guy, and he did the right thing, in addition to the authorities he must have taken the higher ups at Jang in confidence. If something were to happen to him, I am sure he will leave behind clues.

Once again, there is no basis for any threats, nor that the person involved is a politician. Lets stick to the reported facts shall we.

No one really follows laws in Pakistan. When pardoned MQM murder convicts can come out and murder people again in Karachi, you expect this to go through LOL!

Might be true for politicians, doesnt really apply for blasphemy crimes. Read.

As for blasphemy, this chap should have thought about the consequences of insulting the Prophet pbuh before he sent out those emails . In Pakistan, you insult the Prophet pbuh, you get in trouble, SIMPLE.

I know sending out such emails in a country without notions of free speech and privacy is risky. At the same time it doesnt excuse the people who ratted the person out.

Lastly, since Ansar Abbasi is more of a political personality with hardly any religious thoughts in his work, you can be sure there was more than just religious blasphemy in his email(s). Remember, when Khasi Zafar openly insulted Ansar Abbasi on the air, Ansar kept his cool and wasnt provoked one bit.

Not really. The person who sent the email is not reported to be a political personality, nor are any ‘blasphemous thoughts’ reported to be political in nature. There is no reason why such a dimension to the story would not be reported, if it existed.

[Spock]

@ravage

Once again, there is no basis for any threats, nor that the person involved is a politician. Lets stick to the reported facts shall we.

Might be true for politicians, doesnt really apply for blasphemy crimes. Read.

I know sending out such emails in a country without notions of free speech and privacy is risky. At the same time it doesnt excuse the people who ratted the person out.

Not really. The person who sent the email is not reported to be a political personality, nor are any ‘blasphemous thoughts’ reported to be political in nature. There is no reason why such a dimension to the story would not be reported, if it existed.

So reporting blasphemous things about the Prophet PBUH being sent to top editors of the country is ‘ratting’ them out? lol now I wouldnt rat out anyone who sends me a txt ridiculing zardari, nawaz or altaf, but I would certainly rat out someone who sends me one ridiculing the Prophet. I am sure Ansar would feel the same way because last I checked, he was a Muslim.

[ravage]

@Spock

So reporting blasphemous things about the Prophet PBUH being sent to top editors of the country is 'ratting' them out? lol now I wouldnt rat out anyone who sends me a txt ridiculing zardari, nawaz or altaf, but I would certainly rat out someone who sends me one ridiculing the Prophet. I am sure Ansar would feel the same way because last I checked, he was a Muslim.

do you feel someone who wouldnt report such an incident is not a Muslim?

I know you have an impulse to defend Abbasi here, you dont need to. Like I said, whoever got the federal govt involved, whether that is done at the instigation of Abbasi or 'upper management' is to be blamed. We have no definitive proof that Abbasi is infact the rat, so you can relax a little.

[Spock]

@ravage

I know you have an impulse to defend Abbasi here, .

And I know your impulse to bash Ansar unnecessarily which is why you created this thread to begin with, so that doesnt matter.

[apple2005]

Re: FIA arrests person for expressing blasphemous thoughts to Ansar Abbasi

Ansar Abbasi did a right thing. This person should be given a fair trial and punished as per law of Pakistan.

There is no breech of violation of ethics.
1) This person was unknown to Ansar Abbasi. He was the one sent an e-mail.
2) There is no violation in exposing any one who passes blasphemous comments about our beloved Prophet(PBHU).

Please don't comment any more. Our prophet is everything for us.