the dilemma is that women nowadays (eastern society or desi western societies) interpret Islam to a limit where it benefits them the most. they would look like they believe in the very fundamentals of Islam when they talk about how our prophet (pbuh) used to treat his women, or what he said about women's rights. prophet (pbuh) def said as a husband u don't have any right to oppress women , to tell ur wife to cook for you or live with ur parents. but prophet (pbuh) also said husband to a wife is like her virtual (or worldly God) if there was permission to bow your head before anyone except God, I would tell wife to bow her head before husband. the point is either don't go that way , don't quote religion when it benefits you the most (both men and women) or if you need to quote then don't try finding loop holes in it, cuz u can't fool God Almighty
I agree with the above..
this thread shouldn't ve been posted on this forum in the first place.
the dilemma is that women nowadays (eastern society or desi western societies) interpret Islam to a limit where it benefits them the most. they would look like they believe in the very fundamentals of Islam when they talk about how our prophet (pbuh) used to treat his women, or what he said about women's rights. prophet (pbuh) def said as a husband u don't have any right to oppress women , to tell ur wife to cook for you or live with ur parents. but prophet (pbuh) also said husband to a wife is like her virtual (or worldly God) if there was permission to bow your head before anyone except God, I would tell wife to bow her head before husband. the point is either don't go that way , don't quote religion when it benefits you the most (both men and women) or if you need to quote then don't try finding loop holes in it, cuz u can't fool God Almighty. this thread shouldn't ve been posted on this forum in the first place.
This.
Women, especially those born in the West, try to reconcile feminism with religion and end up picking and choosing parts that fulfill this. Yes, men and women both have rights but religion clearly dictates that men and women have different roles and strengths. Feminism says that this is just due to the way boys and girls are raised and the AVERAGE woman is just as skilled at everything as the AVERAGE man, and vice versa, which is wrong.
The problem was with the title I guess. Warns and alerts already. I liked and appreciate how you started off. The best is told to us is how wives should be and how they should behave (obediently). We are ready we agree with each alphabet of the Quranic commands and the Ahadees but please dont forget to mention how you men have been directed to deal with us also. Just be honest and impartial.
The problem was with the title I guess. Warns and alerts already. I liked and appreciate how you started off. The best is told to us is how wives should be and how they should behave (obediently). We are ready we agree with each alphabet of the Quranic commands and the Ahadees but please dont forget to mention how you men have been directed to deal with us also. Just be honest and impartial.
you're right mirage. perhaps I should have been more careful with the title, but I agree wholeheartedly that women have a role and men too. i personally know some females who would actually take offense at being advised that they should behave obediently and try to compete with their husbands in all matters. for instance, they would say "if he can do this why can't I?" ..."if he can see this person I can see that person"..."if he can earn this much, i can too"... it is not a competition. and the truth of the matter is that men are appointed the protectors of women and there is wisdom in that.
on the other side of the coin, men are advised to be kind to women for they are their protectors and secondly, woman is made as an emotional being, moreso than man.
I know a couple who is forever engaged in this battle and the girl would absolutely slay me should i quote the above ahadith to her. she touts herself as a strong feminist and will not compromise on any angle to her husband's wishes. Allah only knows how their marriage is still maintaining itself, but she does cause him a lot of grief and though she's my friend I can be impartial about all this and state things as they are.
the dilemma is that women nowadays (eastern society or desi western societies) interpret Islam to a limit where it benefits them the most. they would look like they believe in the very fundamentals of Islam when they talk about how our prophet (pbuh) used to treat his women, or what he said about women's rights. prophet (pbuh) def said as a husband u don't have any right to oppress women , to tell ur wife to cook for you or live with ur parents. but prophet (pbuh) also said husband to a wife is like her virtual (or worldly God) if there was permission to bow your head before anyone except God, I would tell wife to bow her head before husband. the point is either don't go that way , don't quote religion when it benefits you the most (both men and women) or if you need to quote then don't try finding loop holes in it, cuz u can't fool God Almighty. this thread shouldn't ve been posted on this forum in the first place.
Alright. If you want to tell us that we have made religion as a matter of convenience only then DO NOT exclude YOUR gender here. Or maybe you are that naive. How do you interpret religion? not in your favour only? look at your double standards. If I put an effort, I have to edit only one word in your post and preplace the word "women" with "men". The rest will be equally appropriate. See you fulfill only financial responsibilities. What else do you do?
You leave your family and come over and live with another family and khidmat them and accept them as your family? (dont tell me women dont do that, you mother, our mothers must have done that) And the moment you object any thing unfair they do, are you labelled as the monster DIL and all that? Here we talk about our rights and you dont listen, you call it impatience and ill will and well whatnot.
you cook and do chores for them and still try to look pleasing to them so that they love you and keep loving you? would you make such efforts?
You conceive? bear another life for nine months in your stomach and deliver (let the labour pain alone) and then you breast feed, you spend your nights sitting by the baby's side if he is ill or needs a feeding or any any thing? well obviously if it is said your heaven lies under your mother's feed it was no joke, was it?
EXCEPT for your gender is wiser and more sober (if they use their brains only) you are not superior to us at all. YET we acknowledge you being superior because our holy book says so. We are ready to prostate BUT do YOU deserve? Are you also as God fearing and fair and just as the men of 1400 years before were who did deserve to have their women prostate in front of them? DO you show your commitment, care and concern on that level?
We are ready to prostate BUT do YOU deserve? Are you also as God fearing and fair and just as the men of 1400 years before were who did deserve to have their women prostate in front of them? DO you show your commitment, care and concern on that level?
this was the questions bit.. right.. so do we deserve? no we don't deserve that.. about commitment, concern and care, no it's impossible for us to get there! you probably didn't get what I wanted to say actually.. and the point I was making, you just proved that yourself, yes ''Islam and quran says that but do we (men) deserve that?'' ok so now if I say yes prophet used to treat his wives very kindly, and we're ready to do that but do you (today's women) deserve that?? do you think your character and piety level is the same as that of prophet's wives?
what I mean is that as long as it's in your benefit , you guys would pick up the fundamentals of religion, mold them and quote them to justify yourselves, but the point it doesn't go your way then statements like yours start coming out , Do you (men) deserve it?
well when you know its both ways then how do you start with "actually the women today, (eastern societies or desi western societies)" are this or that. When you know you are not perfect why start finding faults? Self delusion.
don't quote religion when it benefits you the most (both men and women)
It was for both basically
women nowadays (eastern society or desi western societies) interpret Islam to a limit where it benefits them the most.
this was specifically for muslim women born and brought up in western societies cuz they're at the forefront of so called ''Feminism'' . and the irony is that they support it with Islamic fundamentals!
I remember someone quoting this in front of an Islamic scholar, I wish I could remember it all right now!
I think it's completely false that women born in the west somehow manipulate the teachings of Islam, it's just another common stereotype that makes people not born in the west feel more religious and important than the rest of us. I meet more conservative muslims here in a day than I would in a year in a place like Pakistan where wearing a hijab lowers your social status.
Anyway, the answer that this scholar gave was actually a very sophisticated one, it argued that although women are completely equal to man they are equal in a different way. Since man and woman are two halves of a whole both are equally flawed, therefore the mans weaknesses are the womans' strenghths and the womans weaknesses are the mans strength, this does not mean that either half has more weaknesses than the other, only that each half is unique in itself. The hadith about the need for two women is always a very sophisticated one, the need for two women is only in some cases, in other cases the statement of one woman is enough.
Also, I think it's wrong to take all quotes/hadith at face value, they're deeper than that and we can't really make a judgement without being very knowledgeable about all the interpretations of a particular hadith/quote. If I find the sources this scholar used I'll post them on here! :)
