feeling of being a majority or minority

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goes both ways … of pakistanis going from pakistan to a caucasian land … and pakistan-born-abroad going to pakistan …

how does it feel? with your unique situation of where you are born and what you are used to ..

of being brown, born in a white-land … how do you feel about that? and then going to pakistan and being surrounded by people who look like you … who you can visually relate with … whats your experience?

of being brown, born and raised in a brown land, and then going to a white land …

i’m a born/raised pakistani … moved abroad not too long ago, but it’s a been a while as well … i still feel misfit … i am not too confident of taking charge of a situation where the person in front of me is a local … while back home my father literally has to hold on to me before i slap another pervert in a market place, or start street racing with harassing males.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

i was born in the Middle East and then moved to England. I hated it then and hate it more so now because people here are very judgemental. They always like to box people into categories e.g. Muslim or Indian or Chinese. The concept of one melting pot with all cultures is unknown to British people whereas I've heard it isnt like that in America/Canada.

I am not confident with speaking to locals here and still feel like an outsider after 13 years.

However, when I go back to Pakistan people there treat me differently because they think I am a "gori" just because I wear jeans and drive my own car in Pakistan. It hurts me because I love Pakistan and it's my country but people's attitudes and perceptions prevent me from wanting to live there as well as the general lawlessness, corruption and lack of bare necessities!

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

wow ... even after 13 years!!!

but do people in pakistan to-date treat you like a "gori" since so many girls in pakistan drive their own cars and wear jeans/pants etc.

i dont really have people boxing me in a certain category ... i guess its more in uk ... but i've heard/seen-on-tele a lot of racist things happening in america ... with where i live ... it's more like they are used to seeing foreigners/immigrants so much .. that everyone treats you like you are from there ... are generally nice ... but still i have this constant feeling that this isnt my place ..

i do love pakistan a lot ... and i would choose to live there anytime ... but like you said, i cant deal with the lawlessness and general crap of the system and people.

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Lol! :D

Stardust is right about the melting pot thing, things are very different in the US compared to the UK..

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

Well i have a quite different situation. Born and raised in Europe the whites around me
have no problem with my color etc. I'm quite "melted" in to the society. I guess its cause there arent any desis where v live.

But when I go to Pakistan they treat me also like a Pakistani, not a gori. Only in some situations when I have a different opinion on a topic they saythat I was raised in the west.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

^ so if you live in an all-white place ... did it feel weird/uncomfortable at any level to go to pakistan and be surrounded by all browns??

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

i have not yet had the experience of moving abroad to a white's land from Pakistan

but in my opinion being in majority should be nicer.

especially in terms of having all the family around. people like you all around. the sound of Azzan and the festivity on Eids, Independence Day...eating the oddest things at the oddest place ...halwa puri etc...that am sure is soo much fun :)

obviously, the girls who have lived and been raised abroad must obviously have some problems settling in Pakistan. And I agree the corruption and with all the problems, Pakistan seems a bleak place to live.

but for someone who has been born here and raised here, there's NO place like HOME ..i LOVE pakistan... :)

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I've been thinking a lot about all this recently, I don't think it's possible to belong a 100% or to feel completely content and at home anywhere in the world..

Every place has it's good points and bad points, right now I feel more at home in the UK because all the family I actually care about is over here (or will be), all the decent ones (grandparents etc.) in Pak have died... and also because this country has better laws, no stupid sh*t like ethnicity, sectarianism, casteism etc.

I was in Pak a year or so ago and if anyone made an ignorant comment about the west or Britain I would fume, I started some fights on public transport: once I was saying how much more insaniyat Brits have compared to Pakistanis, I must have touched a raw nerve because a guy infront of me turned around and said "bhai aisey nahi kehtey Allaah Ta'aala naraaz hotey hain, Pakistani Musalman hain", I'm like "what? Allah Ta'ala haq ki baat pe naaraaz nahi hotey, Pakis are not above criticism just because they're Muslim"... Most passengers agreed with me but he gave me high blood pressure..

..I have the same problem here when people make ignorant comments about Pak/Islam.

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You wear jeans yet you don't feel as though you belong here? Where in the UK do you live? Bolton or something lol?

Even ultra-orthodox Muslims and Jews are easily integrated into mainstream society here simply if they can speak good English (without accent) and if they know the local culture so I find it hard to believe that an educated, liberal girl whose values are probably not very different to those around her would find it hard to belong here.

How did the Arabs treat you in the Middle East? I bet even you would agree that Pakistanis are far more respected here than in the Middle East, right?

Most Brits from non-racist areas are quite decent and accepting, a lot more than our kind.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

I personally feel most comfortable around Brits of Desi and/or Muslim descent.

As nice as Brits of Anglo descent are, I know there are going to be odd situation when I'm going to feel like an outsider amongst them, like when we're expected to have a political/religious opnions on issues we'd rather not think or care about...

I also don't feel a 100% at home with FOBs and Pakis back in Pak, they're just different, same color but different mindset, different accent/slang, different likes/dislikes/hobbies... They even treat us different, we're FOBs there as they are FOBs here, they think of us waleytis as simpletons (sidhey saadhey), a bit slow etc.. They can actually recognise us Brits from our body language even if we dont open our mouths, I guess the same way we can tell a freshy even if they're wearing the latest d&g and have the latest haircut (mullet, short back n sides etc.)..

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why on earth would you say that on a public transport IN PAKISTAN?

she saying that becuz she wears jeans and drives her own car in Pakistan … not UK

it’s true … you guys are pretty recognizable without having anything said or done :chai: … it’s cute/funny/strange how when guys from abroad go to Pak … true incident .. then end up on Hall Road, Lahore … and try to purchase some stereo or whatever while talking to the shop-keeper in punjabi .. *that he (the foreign-boy) cannot speak *… whyyyyy? :rotfl:

it’s also tiring of how i keep hearing about this FOB dilemma … they’re this, they’re that … their strange accent, and fake walking styles, bla bla bla … well reality check … it’s exactly the same scenario when ABCD/BBCD/etc go back to Pakistan. So why be hostile towards each other and all the silly name calling?

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

It's interesting that people have lived in other countries for such long times and still don't have that feeling that they belong.

In my case, I have lived in New York for 8 years and now whichever state I visit, I always miss it-definately feels like home. And when I go to Pakistan where I've lived for about 8 years as well, it always feels like home as well (Lahore). I also lived in two other continents and never felt out of place except a few times at middle eastern weddings- because I just couldn't speak fluent Arabic even after 4 years and therefore, missed out on all the gossip:(

It could have been because I have lived more in US and they're more open to making others feel at home as long as the person looks, talks and acts like they do- whereas Brits are not as accepting.

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for some odd reason ... well not really odd ... just post 9/11 ... i've never been comfortable with the idea of living in america ... and then with things you see on tv, documentaries, patriotic-american-flag-hanging-communities, all-about-american-army-freaks ... i just thought .. wow, it must be so difficult to survive ... and with england i thought ... must be so easy ... also becuz british politics are not so racist (in comparison) ...
but being here on this forum gives a completely opposite picture. wow.

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Seriously once you get to know Brits they're not all that bad.

I use to dream about moving to America before 9/11 for the sun and the well-tanned goodlooking people (compared to our bland Brits)..

But now I'd be too scared to live there, they are patriotic to the point of obsession, to a point where they can't think rationally... Just like religious fanatics.

The star spangled banner has blinded them so much that they can't see the other side of the coin, they refuse to believe that their kind can do any wrong just like the religious fanatics...

Just like the religious fanatics they only seem to have regard for the lives of their own kind..

They can see the wrongs the other side committs but they fail to see the wrongs their country commits.

I'm not saying all Americans are like that and I've never actually met any but from bulletin boards a lot of them seem this way.

White Brits are not like that, some are just genuinely ignorant and that is the reason for their hatred but once you show them the other side of the coin and dispell the myths they are quite open minded.

Just like most Pakistanis, most White Brits will condemn "Islamic" terrorism but they will also condemn the war and civillian casualties in Iraq/Afghanistan etc. The majority of Brits are anti-war.

In America people of foreign descent have to give up everything to be accepted whilst in the UK we are accepted for who we are.. We have Muslim men with great big beards and white thobes, Jewish men with payot, women in burqas, Gurduwaras and Mosques with great big onion domes, Polish grocery stores, curry houses...

As a result British culture is a potpourri of wonderful contradictions... American cultures claims to be "melting pot" butin reality everyone just has to abandon their culture and conform.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

people in Saudi Arabia do treat Pakistanis badly but there is alot more religious tolerance and that, to me, is very important.

For me to hear the Azaan and for my father and brother to stand side by side with other Muslim brothers whilst praying is very important to me. I don't find the same community cohesion in England. At all.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

^ what else do you having standing next to you in mosques?? it is all muslim innit? and if i'm not wrong, there are parts of england where you hear the azaan, no?
religious tolerance in saudi arabia? towards muslims i suppose ... i am sorry ... i dont know what it's like there ... i cant imagine a non-muslim to have an equal life in saudi-arabia ... there must be so many restrictive laws ...

and nosherwan ... i feel the same way as you ... but over here it feels different by what i read ...

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Underlined is true about anyone- not just Brits. I donot agree with what is bold though and I'm sure once you meet an American you will change your opinion. I do like the fact that you like living in the UK with your Muslim roots mA.

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Im UK born and bred, and its home. sure there are times when i feel a bit of an outsider (like at work when people talk crudely about something or about going clubbing or drinking etc) but these are small things and dont make me feel as though i dont belong here. sometimes i'll see or hear something potentially upsetting (e.g the bnp(a racist political party here)'s leader spouting his hatred on the news)and this is the sort of thing that wouldve really upset me when i was in my teens, but foreign people have done a lot for this country, my father is one of the many immigrants who took on the jobs noone else wanted to rebuild the economy here a few decades back, so we have every right to be here the way i see it.

when i got married in pakistan, i went there after 11 years, and i dont know why. but pakistan felt really familiar to me, i felt a genuine love for the country. but i definietly feel more out of place there than here in the UK. there are things, unspoken, that i dont understand, im not 100% fluent in my native tongue and i dont speak urdu so i cant go anywhere on my own, my relatives also see me as being different to them i know and i can feel that its true, i am different to them. different mindset, raised between 2 cultures, different opinions.

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Re: feeling of being a majority or minority

i want to be with, hang around with, make friends with desis … but i dont want to live in an immensely desi neighbourhood/city. why :bummer: