Is it a well-substantiated fear that the West and non-Muslims in general hold for Islam and its believers? Is this fear created in order to encourage aversion to Islam, is it a mix of hate as well as fear? I don’t know of any other religion where religious principals play such an important role in a persons upbringing. Islam is extremely well organized in terms of education. Even though I grew up overseas there was never a shortage of excellent madressahs which we attended after school – we had tests, exams, jalsas covered subjects from History and Quraan to Taleem. In every corner of the world there is a mosque and Muslims come in all colours and sizes and there is an immediate connection with a fellow Muslim, whether they speak your language or not. Muslim unity is basically indestructible. The west seems to now have a major problem with madressahs and want to find out what is being taught there – give me a break, are they going to go to the 500 odd madressahs or Islamic school in one western country and sit in on each class. Maybe it’s a good thing – they may learn something.
In a religion where charity is one of its main principals, its tragic how the media distorts Islam. To me “Islamic fundamentalism” and “Islamic extremists” are oxymorons, and anyone who thinks terrorist attacks, or guerrilla warfare – a term I prefer to use – is done in the name of religion, is quite dumb. Political motivations far outweigh any religious concerns for bombers. If one looks at the broader picture, ‘terrorism’ takes place on a much larger scale across the world and the perpetrators are not young men from an Afghani training camp.
What brought this about was a discussion on a British news channel where a British caller complained about the frisking of an Asian man at a tube station since he was carrying a rucksack. He felt it was unfair, since he himself was not searched even though he was also carrying a similar bag. And this former British cop was complaining that there is a significant difference between the IRA and Muslim terrorists since the IRA had a specific agenda and were ‘easier to understand’. Well, dodo-head if you have a look at Palestine and Iraq and British and US foreign policies towards Israel and the Islamic world, you’d also begin to understand the agenda.
I heard this show on radio, Mishal Hussain did a fine job as a host/anchor.
The point that British cop was making was that IRA carefully avoided civilian casualties and
it’s a known fact that IRA would tip off the police to avoid casualities. However, you can’t help
but notice the strong bias against Muslim from the ‘British cop’ and the CIA analyst who
called in – both refused to even humor the ‘cause’ theory forwarded by Robert Pape, author of Dying To Win. Also, what’s interesting is that although Pape sounds very convincing, his theories have been ripped apart by liberal commentators. There was a very good article in Salon about his book.
Oh yeah that chick Mishal Hussein is awesome, it was the same show - talking point.
I was going to mention that book but I had forgotten the name of the author - Robert Pape was it - he explains the root cause of terrorism as being US foreign policy.
Muslim unity, despite the various factions is indestructable - at the end of the day we all believe in tauheed. :p
What’s funny is that after repeated condemnation of terrorism by muslim scholars and leaders, Islam is still dragged in by the media. Islam and muslims are seen in the negative light where as terrorism is a completely political issue. Muslims don’t relate to the ideology of terrorists, however they are still defending themselves. What is media’s agenda here?
It’s time to step back and see why muslims are getting dragged into the ideology they don’t relate with.
I think you’re wrong Catty. If the London bombers (or the 9-11 terrorists) were Iraqi, or Palestinian or even Afghani, you might be able to equate the IRA with them. If the IRA campaign of terror were launched supposedly to protest the UK foreign policy toward the Falklands or the Middle East or the Vatican, you might be able to equate the two loosely as well.
The only nationalistic agenda one could paint on the Islamo-fascists is the desire to unite all Muslims within one caliphate and reject/defeat all western influence within the “Muslim World.” Even there, the uniting is inspired via Islam rather than national identity.
And please, let’s not talk too loudly about “Muslim unity” that is indestructable. Not when the Shias and Sunnis seem to thrive on practicing genocidal-like campaigns against each other. Heck, the Palestinian people (Muslims or non-Muslims) were treated about as shabbily as possible by their Muslim Arab brothers and sisters for decades.
You see the fear is not of economic power or political power. It is simply the power of faith. A man is willingly to give up his life because he believes his faith calls him to do so. He feels it is his duty. Today's western society is materialistic and commercialized. You can find GS to be full of "muslims" who are muslim only in name and not in pratice. There are those who suffer from IAM. They follow the western model. Individualism.
The eastern model also used by Islam is a collective identity. The blood of my muslim brother in faith is my blood as well. Call it stupidity or terrorism. The fact of the matter is that people don't fight in kashmir, Palestine or Iraq for money, glory or honor. They fight for faith. They fight because they believe it is their religious duty.
The Christain world has launched a total of 6 crusades in the middle east. The largest battles in history are known for their religious tentions. All modern day conflicts have an underlying issue of faith as being the root cause. Faith motives people to do anything. It is the firm belief in the All Mighty and his decree that people fight.
That scares the hell out of the west and our resident anti-islamists. They ridicule and insult those of faith because they fear it. Plus they are also annoyed as they don't do it themselves. But at the end of the day the fact that scares the world the most is that a muslim will willingly die to protect his faith. No other race, religion or people can claim such.
We have to be really careful in calling this a war in the name of religion or faith. A bunch of thugs blowing themselves is not what muslims believe in. I would be offended by the terms like Islamo-fascists, Islamic extremists, Islamic fundamentalists...we don't believe in the this nor we appreciate such terms.
Islam is being dragged into this mess and we are all falling for it.
It’s actually a very naive view of the ‘Muslim’ world or Ummah, and sadly quite a pervasive one. Perhaps that’s why Western commentators scapegoat ‘Ummah’ with impunity for its inaction vis-a-vis terrorism.
CAtty,
It’s quite an interesting read. Couldn’t agree with you more when you said “Political motivations far outweigh any religious concerns for bombers.” We the so called moderate muslims in general get a bad name because these handful of “muslims” (OBL and his likes) find it convenient to use Islam as facade and voice to make their plight heard; a crafty strategem indeed (useful until now). But we, the moderate muslims, are somewhat culpable too. Everytime we are asked to take a solid stance on the issue of suicide bombing and terrorism, we always cop out with some retarded demagogic argument. Just look around this website; it’s abound with threads by half-wits on conspiracy theories and blame gaming of the West. I hate every person who blames India for the break-up of Pakistan. It was “us.” It was our blunder and we killed our own brethern and now we blame india for it. Just like we are now blaming the West for the quagmire we are in today
So, wake up peeps…
Oh, What indestructible muslim unity are you talking about???
Also, just a minor technical correction: You shouldn’t bash the “fundamentalist” follower of any religion. Anybody who follows fundamental version of islam, christianity or judaism (none of which preach violence) is a “fundamentalist,” and hence nothing wrong with that. It’s the “extremists” who should be rebuked. Apologies for the long post. Let me leave before PCG floods this place.
Fayz, I dont think any religion supports warfare or killing of innocents. The Arab/Muslim world does not have the means to have a face-off with US/Britain in a military combat, thus the belligerents use whatever means they have to fight. Unfortunate that they do it in the name of Islam. If Goerge Bush was religious he’d also say, “with God behind me I now shall invade Iraq”.
MV, I really dont think the aim of the terrorists is to unite all Muslims and we all know Shia/Sunni rifts exist only at the political level. Go to Iraq or Pakistan and you’ll see Shias and Sunnis living peacefully side by side, inter-marrying etc. Really and truly.
CM, you’re kinda thinking on my wavelength. Just how they wont let Muslim schoolgirls wear headscarves - is that fear-motivated or what?
LI you may be right, but in what way are we responsible for what these guys do? At the end of the day we’re victims like everybody else, I mean al-qaeda has been carrying out attacks in Saudi for a good few years now.
dope, yeah yeah orite stop picking on that ‘indestructable unity’ phrase everyone - i admit it is a bit naive. Dont you think it was the Brits who caused all the mess in India/Pak?
Folks, I’m here to learn too, so your opinions and views are welcome.
I know it is unfortunate that they are using Islam..but it’s not only them it’s the western media as well. What I am saying is we need to isolate Islam out of this combat.
What I am hearing from you is that if Arab/Muslim had the means to face US/Britan, they would do exactly what the belligerents are doing :-p I’m sorry but it’s not a war on religion as we are made to believe.
By the way, George Bush is religious ..what makes you think how he won this election American people would rather have people die in Iraq than two boys get married
What i find interesting is that people think fear of Islam and think Sept 11th. That is utterly wrong. You see Fukoyama and Huntington did not write their papers in 2001. They wrote them at the end of the cold war. Additionally we all know the power of faith. It was seen for 10 years in Afghanistan. It was seen in Palestine when the Islamic world black listed Israel. Faith is a very powerful tool. It has been one since the 1970s. It has been feared by the west since the 1970 oil criss. The oil crisis was not brought on by political gains or stupidity. It was brought on because it was faith related. The reason was Palestine but Palestine is a religious issue.
As you can see faith being a powerful tool among muslims is not new at all. The world has seen it and has used it to its own designs for 20 years easily. As for the Hijab thing. To break a society is to make them conform to yours. Have you not noticed how the western media keeps attacking Islamic values, culture and traditions? It is just that. Faith is a very powerful tool. The hijab is a mark of religious conservativeness and faith. To weaken that faith you have a law where you have to take off the hijab in schools. I am not really sure how muslim women are dealing with it in France. An opinion on the matter would be a great read.
The fear for Islam was already there. You just needed terrorist around to make it acceptible. The reason they fear Islam is because Muslims do not assimilate or intergrate. Thus islamic vlalues and customs remain and the western customs will become the miniority in 50 to 80 years.
Although I don’t agree that muslims don’t integrate, I’m not sure how not assimilating and integrating poses a fear. All it would do is isolate a community among diversity (Not a wise strategy if you ask me). All it does is shows lack of tolerance & flexibility, not fear.
Through out history there has been one dominant culture which has influenced other societies and cultures. From Islamic society, to the british. Now it is american. American culture and traditions are spreading like wild fire due to telecommunications revolution. What you have now is small societies popping up in the west that do not adopt the pre-existing norms and traditions. They bring with them their own and establish their own societies.
While the average european enjoys a glass of red wine and clubbing. The new migrants pray and spend their time reading the quran. Two extremes no doubt but muslims do not ever completely integrate into western society because our religion forbids a small majority of the social customs. Those who do completely integrate into western society are no longer muslims.
The premise of the clash of civilizations a very concise and well written paper as well as book is that the societies of Islam and of Christendom (or rather many of whom are agnostic) are in conflict with each other. One society is to win and many from the political spectrum see Islam winning. Muslims do not integrate to the extent that they give up their own religious and cultural identity. They maintain and when more come they keep it even more.
The conclusion i reach is on the demographic change of Europe and why the Germans and French want to close down their borders. France has a population of 60 million and its muslim population was in 2000 roughly 6 million. A good 10% of the population. Germany and other countries like Holland and the UK are following suit. Additionally these migrants are making sure their cultural values are kept and they are not over-ridden by western values. The migrant population has an extremely healthy growth rate. The "white" population growth rate is in the high negatives. I hope that clears things up.
Agreed, muslims don't let go their religious values..why should they.. but why should it be a threat to any Western country? If it is a threat, why would they allow any muslim to migrate to their land in the first place.
While muslims help the communities grow in the contries they migrate to, they also bring the message of God with them. Now if you are blowing yourself up in the name of religion in the country you moved to then I find that quite unethical and misrepresentation of Islam.
We are in an age where we should work towards 'no clash of civilization'...There is no need of a clash if humans want to surive this century...We should learn to live with eachother with all the religious and cultural differences.
If anyone on this board thinks that what CM is saying is not true, they need to listen to the former general of US army who serves as a consultant to washington post...here are his words (listened on the radio) "Imagine what the world will be like if we let these muslims unite under on Khalifa? They will not only dominate the world religiously but also socio economically, this my friend is a very scary proposition. We must unite and defeat Islam (quickly changed the words) these terrorists so they do not succeed in their mission to unit muslims under one khaliffa".
I will try to recall his name, but in the mean time, rest assured that US, UK or any other westeren nation is definitley afraid of Islam.
Haha, apparently there was some senator from the US who was talking of bombing the Kaaba - they showed him on ARY/GEO - I missed it, but the whole family saw it. They didn’t catch his name though, of course.
I would say that mixed in with this “war on terrorism”, Islam is definitely in threat.
And its not really that the non-muslims are hurting the muslims as much as muslims are hurting each other. Musharraf means well, but I think his polices aren’t getting translated right at the grassroots level - like when Waziristan was bombed and no one cared to investigate. Or like how innocent people got sent to G-Bay - did anyone catch that Views on News interview with that Afghani journalist who just got out of G-Bay?
Now that was a bit scary. He got thrown in there because some ISI officer wanted the 5000 dollar bounty - so he picked this guy up and sent him in knowing full well he didn’t do anything.
and we all know Shia/Sunni rifts exist only at the political level. Go to Iraq or Pakistan and you’ll see Shias and Sunnis living peacefully side by side, inter-marrying etc. Really and truly.
American people would rather have people die in Iraq than two boys get married