Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

^ now almost every muslim knows that all men and women shall enter paradise as youth....
so hassan and hussain being leaders of youth in other words means leaders of all men....

i beg u tell me what makes them leaders over prophets, and even ali (ra) who was much better than them.....
and why wud they have to be inobedience to them????

and why fatema (ra) wud be ruling over other women, whereas according to Quran, Maryam (as) deserves the position....
Quran 3:42
*O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation. *

22

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

^^^
PCG
It’s because she is the beloved daughter of beloved prophet and Imaam Ul Ambiya (The Imam of all the prophets) of Allah. You should NOT question public on this, that is Allah SWT’s decision. When Angel requested Allah SWT that he would like to go say salam to Hozoor Salaat o Salaam, Allah SWT sent a special gift and that gift was he made Sayyida Kainaat Fatima Zahra the Queen of women in Paradise. It’s Allah SWT’s decision not yours or mine so if you want question then question Allah SWT.

}{appy Birthday citrine
23

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Maybe you should take that issue up with the Prophet (saw) himself? you seem to know better than him (saw) on the content of the Quranic ayahs.:)

*pcg: * Authority from God, Authority from the Prophet, Authority of those who the Prophet (saw) have indicated as his succcessors i.e. The Purified ones. We will never equal or supercede their status in this world and the next. Obedience to anyone of them is obedience to God.

The Quran does not focus on the political nature of heaven, however, such detail is available in numerous ahadith as people use to ask simliar questions mostly out of curiosity. hence, your best bet would be to study the ahadith to see what it may be like.

Saqi: :-)

24

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Ma Mooli, that is a strictly shia belief. Sunnis, the majority of muslims, do not believe that Ali (R) and his family were better than everyone else or superior in any way. We acknowledge that all the Sahabah had their strengths and weaknesses, and at least were better followers than probably most muslims today.

Armughal: Good point. This raises a big question to the belief that Fatima (R) is the Queen of Heaven.

Again, I ask for a direct literal reference that there will be Kings and Queens in heaven. I simply do not see any evidence for this.

Dil keh Raag...
25

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Rejectors of Quran!
They depend upon weak or false narrations for their beliefs.

26

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

i just happen to believe that Quan is more accurate than false narrations… :slight_smile:

27

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Rejectors of Quran? I didnt know that Quran has said that Fatima Zahra [sa] is not the chief of the woman?:rolleyes: As for the hadeeth, I dont know about Nawasib but ulema of Ahle Sunnah and Shia have considered the hadith as autentic. Will try to put some stuff if i get time.

28

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

I think you'll find they do. Including the sahabas and the 4 fiqhi Imams. :-)

[quote]
i just happen to believe that Quan is more accurate than false narrations.... :)
[/quote]

Well that makes just you and about a billion other muslims. :-D At least we agree on something eh.

29

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Well for starters, there will be the Queen Bee 'cause there’ll be rivers of honey and you can’t get that without a queen..

PCG I love your endless ability to get everthing the wrong way round. Its got nothing to do with ‘political heirarchy’ as you put.

We know in the Quran there are degrees of heaven - in whatever sense - and the highest level is I think (may be wrong) firdaws. What level you’re in depends on your spiritual attaintment and development in this life.

No one can argue about the very high level of spirituality achieved by Fatima (a.s), Ali and Hassan and Hussain. And it is this level of spirituality that is referred to that places them in the highest levels of heaven. Doesn’t mean you have to bow down them.

30

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

i think this verse could also mean that Allah chose Mariam(AS), to be the Mother of Isa (PBUH).

however, there is no point debating who is going to be Queen of Paradise, since Quran does not state anything regarding it.

31

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

NO, In junnah there is no battle between good and evil. So, don't expect to be given orders to fullfill or achieve something. These are symbolic / spritual rankings. Similar to the statement "I listen to my guardian". Listtening to guardian doesn't mean i obey him its the nature of the relation that makes me listen his advices carefully.

In islam their is no concept of "state-slavery". The way 4 caliphs lived their lives proves my point. Just don't mix the concept of caliphs with kings, they are different.

32

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

^ Thanks, that is good clarification. The term "Queen" I think has just been put in to politicize the difference between Sunnis and Shias. Shias flat out think that Ali, Fatima, etc are all superior to everyone else, and that their bloodline is pure and infallible. I don't see any evidence for this, nor does the Quran state any such thing, nor does, (like someone else said), it say that there will be any such Queen in Heaven. The term "Queen" means a political ruler.

That's why I say, if the Prophet ever did say such a thing to his daughter, it was meant symbolically and figuratively. I don't see any evidence for an actual full throttle political hierarchy in Heaven, where all believers will be doing sajda or paying tithes or anything like that to one human woman believer. I do not dispute that Fatima was way more religious than I am, and for that I do respect her a degree more than most women I know. However, that is not the equivalent of saying that I accept her as my political representative or senator in Heaven.

33

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

PCG stop spreading misconceptions btw Muslims.

34

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

surly their is nothing like sajda and queen thing doesn’t look appropriate cuz there is one king that is allah swt. Secondly, shias do temper hadith or not its altogether a different topic but we (including me) should be very carefull while discussing panjtan paak (family of Rasool :saw:) as making insulting / sarcastic remarks/gestures won’t go down well.

35

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

Where have I insulted Fatima (R)? Can you post one instance? People who get offended at my remarks will get offended at anyone who doesn't bow down to their human "idols". Muslims have begun worshipping the Sahabah, and they pay more attention to the Sahabah than they do to Allah and His Orders.

36

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

:confused: political senator or rep? :-o what do you take heaven for? :cb:

we know there are different levels in heavens. Hence a hierarchy does exist. but thats not the point.. heaven is not a political place at all. neither are sajda’s ever done for humans…they are for God.

i think your confused.

still… im curious…how would you take the meaning symbolically?

37

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

I'm confused as to how you would take it literally? If you took it literally there is a political hierarchy. What do you think a Queen is?

What do you think about this wedding invitation ?
38

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

no u didn't. I made a general statement and i mentioned myself too.

no we havn't started worshipping sahabah. We consider them superior to us for their efforts and all the hardships they faced. Secondly, we cannot even think about being like them, they were lot lot better muslims then we are.

39

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

I think ImranQ explained it very well.

I think Mr. Debator has too much time on his hand to try and create an issue out of non-issue. Hazrat fatima (ra) being the leader of women and Husnain being the leader of youth are the titles awarded them for their nobleness, Just the same way Queen awards the title of 'Sir'

I would be stupid to assume that anything in worldly political terms

There is no difference among shias and sunnis on this issue whatsoever. They are stupid but not to the extent to imply imaginative meaning and elaboration to simple titles.

Sunni place Hazrat Fatima (ra) at highest position of piety, thus have no issues with this and many other titles for her.

[quote]
Shias flat out think that Ali, Fatima, etc are all superior to everyone else, and that their bloodline is pure and infallible. I don't see any evidence for this, nor does the Quran state any such thing, nor does, (like someone else said), it say that there will be any such Queen in Heaven. The term "Queen" means a political ruler.
[/quote]

Sunnis also think that Hazrat Ali, Hazrat fatima (ra) and other family members are superior to everyone else because of their

Purity of belief
Services for Islam
Understanding of Islam
Love of Prophet(pbuh)
Bloodline
Sacrifice for Islam

But we do not beleive that they were infallible, they were prone to err. But they led exemplary life and we should learn from them.

40

Re: Fatimah (r.a) is the Chief of Women in Paradise?

I agree that we should learn from them. And I disagree with the guppy that thinks we cannot ever dream of being like them. If you don't try to be as good as them, then you wont even get a small fraction of their goodness. Always keep your goals high, so that you can jump higher.