Re: Fate of Musharraf
same old "main na manoon" attitude which was responsible for breaking of the country before. Political leaders at that point used "main na manoon" or "I give a damn" attitude towards Mujeeb's votes/support and we all saw what happend !
anyway u accept it or not, this will not evaporate the fact that Mush still have a sizable support today !
I agree
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Hey Spock man,
the survey was initially shown by staunch anti musharraf folks i.e. flame of life to prove musharraf's delcining popularity. all I am doing is to show what else the same survey and survey organisation says.
you are the one who brought up the issue of popularity in post #6 btw :)
You know the other intersting thing is that when one sees the popularity plunge, then one must also accept that musharraf was popular..very popoular last year. and that was because he was delivering results. just like certain events brought his popularity down, many things had made him popular last year.
so we cant say oh he has been bad for 8 years, m,ajority of the nation was supportive of him just last October. was the natin a bunch of idiots to suppoirt him if he was that bad? or were they supporting him because what he was doing was right.
if he was THAT bad for 8 years and he was THAT popular that means 2 things, either he was doign teh right things, or the public is a bunch of morons. which one is it?
Popularity that plummets due to any particular reason gets back to normal quickly. I believe that in general election people evaluate work of a government through out their term, not during any short period of time, even though popularity at any particular period of time depends on events that are period specific. Reality comes back quickly during general election time and people start thinking a bit more.
I believe that InshaAllah we might see huge victory for present government party and their allies. Pakistan does not have 2 parties System nor Pakistan have election system of proportional representation. Pakistan has multi-party system where at least 4 big groups of parties would be contesting election in system where 'first past the post' get elected. In such political system, any organised party with 30 to 35 percent vote could easily win most of the seats.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
either way you are looking for a coalition,
and the moment benazir and nawaz decided they were not going to hold hands, it was certain that musharraf would be a factor.
if PML-N and PPP join hands then they can defeat PMLQ, MMA and others
Brother it is possible that if PPP and PML(N) joins together, they might come up with simple majority in next election. Still I feel that even if they join hands, it is very unlikely that they would win more than 95 to 100 seats together in next parliament. If they would join hands, their party together would lose huge number of voters to PML(Q). Many of their supporters hate each other. As for PML(Q), they have not created hate for themselves from any party or group of people. PML(Q) is probably one party that has joined both PPP and PML into one party, where traditional leaders of PML and traditional leaders of PPP are sitting together.
Nevertheless, I cannot say what is real support of PPP and PML(N) at present, but I feel is that PML(N) may have very little support left (regardless of whatever surveys says) and would be lucky to get between 10 to 15 seats in coming election. If Nawaz had any support than we would have seen that when Nawaz came to Pakistan, and especially when his party along with MMA appealed for protest against deportation next day.
As for PPP, they seem to have some support left though I believe that it is not as strong as it used to be. That lack of support is obvious from what they showed during CJ fiasco as well as when Zardari came to Pakistan (his visit after getting out of prison) before getting deported again. Still, I feel that they might get 75 to 80 seats in next general election (if they get lucky).
I do not believe on propaganda that people have not come out on road because they are scared of notorious dictator. Fact is that, today Pakistan is more tolerant for opposition then it ever was and no one feel scared of coming out on roads because military ruler would give them good thrashing and would mishandle them.
Actually, once Musharraf would win presidential election, PML(Q) would become much more stronger than what they are today. I feel that PML(Q) along with their allies might get two-third majority in next general election, not because of rigging but in free and fair election (and there are many logical reasons for such conclusion/assumption).
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Popularity that plummets due to any particular reason gets back to normal quickly. I believe that in general election people evaluate work of a government through out their term, not during any short period of time, even though popularity at any particular period of time depends on events that are period specific. Reality comes back quickly during general election time and people start thinking a bit more.
The popularity plummet didn't happen for any particular event/incident, hence it is not "bouncing back" (anywhere near 80-90%, or even 60%), the decline has been gradual with time, each event/incident has put a little dent.
[quote]
I believe that InshaAllah we might see huge victory for present government party and their allies. Pakistan does not have 2 parties System nor Pakistan have election system of proportional representation. Pakistan has multi-party system where at least 4 big groups of parties would be contesting election in system where 'first past the post' get elected. In such political system, any organised party with 30 to 35 percent vote could easily win most of the seats.
[/quote]
That does not depend upon Mushy's popularity, it all depends on how Mushy's jialay "handle" elections ;)
Re: Fate of Musharraf
So when this clown finally departs, what will be his fate? Iskandar Mirza, Ayub, Yahya, and Zia got theirs so please dont tell me after this 60something year old joker in wardi goes he'll be left alone by the ppl or those that take his place?
For self exile, he has two options, either go live in the US, or go live with Iltaff Bhai in london(not a good idea, as his wife left him and hes on the lookout)
Bhaijaan, ziyaada khush honey ki zaroorat nahiN. You never know what will happen by Nov 15, he may still be a uniformed President.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
The popularity plummet didn't happen for any particular event/incident, hence it is not "bouncing back" (anywhere near 80-90%, or even 60%), the decline has been gradual with time, each event/incident has put a little dent.
Brother, I believe popularity plummeted because of CJ fiasco. I believe that PML(Q) do not have good spokesmen that they can put or argue their cases on media in front of public properly. The way government handled and argued the case on media when government suspended CJ was dismal. CJ got away with murder because media and opposition went behind CJ making simple administrative action into political case, and government party became numb and confused, and start putting their case pathetically amongst public. Believe me, most of government party members were putting their case in front of public in pathetic way, without any vision or logical arguments, else their case was very strong. I believe that CJ fiasco was an event that was main cause in plummeting government popularity.
That does not depend upon Mushy's popularity, it all depends on how Mushy's jialay "handle" elections ;)
Bhai, I wrote that if the election won't be rigged and would be free and fair ... and even then also the chances are that PML(Q) might win reasonable seats, and overall government and allies might win enough seats to make 2-3 majority in next parliament (that is my estimate at present ... and there are reasons for that too, though I could be wrong, let see, with time reality also changes, still time would tell :)).
Re: Fate of Musharraf
I wonder are some people paid by the words they write on this board?
Re: Fate of Musharraf
there is a chapter of that on devon too, spock did u see that place around devon and western.
didnt it close back in 2002? i just heard stories how they were trying to do what they used to do in karachi but the city closed them down...
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Yeah, but I never said he was exiled, he was kept under a house arrest after ZAB took over... But that wasnt his fate, I was referring to how he was labelled a 'kuta' in the streets of Pakistan and his unpopularity, but worry not Musharraf is prolly 5 times more unpopular than Ayub ever will be.
Awesome! With such outspoken pakistani women like you, Pakistan won't ever need enemies. Death and violence isn't the answer to any thing someone doesn't like in Pakistan.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
he could be hung like bhutto, exiled like Nawaz. from an official angle, however I think he is shrewd nuff that he would get unconditional official pardons from the politicos.
But I think he will eventually leave Pakistan not because official efforts to do somethign to him.
but the chances of some deranged lal masjid supporter loony getting to him eventually is high.
Under Article 6, Constitution allows Parliament to instigate treason charges against anyone who suspends or abrogates constitution, with death penalty.
However, nowhere does the constitution allow the parliament to pardon anyone who commits such acts. A little technicality often overlooked.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Brother, I believe popularity plummeted because of CJ fiasco. I believe that PML(Q) do not have good spokesmen that they can put or argue their cases on media in front of public properly. The way government handled and argued the case on media when government suspended CJ was dismal. CJ got away with murder because media and opposition went behind CJ making simple administrative action into political case, and government party became numb and confused, and start putting their case pathetically amongst public. Believe me, most of government party members were putting their case in front of public in pathetic way, without any vision or logical arguments, else their case was very strong. I believe that CJ fiasco was an event that was main cause in plummeting government popularity.
Bhai, I wrote that if the election won't be rigged and would be free and fair ... and even then also the chances are that PML(Q) might win reasonable seats, and overall government and allies might win enough seats to make 2-3 majority in next parliament (that is my estimate at present ... and there are reasons for that too, though I could be wrong, let see, with time reality also changes, still time would tell :)).
What do you think of May 12th incident. I think in Punjab it had a bigger effect on popularity of the General than March 9th. Also 29th September was probably last nail in his popularity coffin.
Fair Elections: With Chaudries incharge of administration and police in Punjab they are capable of producing better results than refrendum....There can be no fair elections with these deals etc, unless you give level playing field to all the contestants and for that it is necessary to have a real neutral caretaker set up under the judiciary...
Bhai saab when Musharaf came to power the thing we all liked about him was he never used to lie and was not a hypocrite. He would not have lost popularity if he would have imposed martial law and told the nation that for the time being it is the best for the nation. He should have taken things truthfully and boldly.
Now on the contrary deals with BB, association with Chaudries and London Don, this hotch potch drama of elections.....I think people of Pakistan are not as stupid as General thinks of them....
In a real fair elections General will get shock of his life to know what people really think of him and his allies now....
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Under Article 6, Constitution allows Parliament to instigate treason charges against anyone who suspends or abrogates constitution, with death penalty.
However, nowhere does the constitution allow the parliament to pardon anyone who commits such acts. A little technicality often overlooked.
May be with BB on board a new constitutional ammendment on cards....
Re: Fate of Musharraf
I do my own suveys, and according to that hes hated in pakistan... btw, the links not working...
So i guess your surveys are wrong.
Meaning You are Wrong.
infidel.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
why, are you going to use that info to ask your party to pay you ? :)
aah
If i had a party
Re: Fate of Musharraf
I'm kind of reminded how by 1972 the 5 star 'kutta' from Village Rehana Tehsil Haripur was being begged by the very same who had given him this affectionate title to come back and rescue them and the nation. Alas the alleged canine leader of the pack admitted "the 'kutta' is very old now..."
Perhaps only the canine leaders of the pack change, the followers and their perceptions are stagnant.
Who ends up the bigger joke...?
Re: Fate of Musharraf
So when this clown finally departs, what will be his fate? Iskandar Mirza, Ayub, Yahya, and Zia got theirs
Apart from Zia all of them died peacefully in their beds, although all of them were involved in worst crimes and should have been arrested and prosecuted. Nothing will happen to Musharraf either, he will most probably keep living in Islamabad and will die a natural death-but miracles happen...
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Awesome! With such outspoken pakistani women like you, Pakistan won't ever need enemies. Death and violence isn't the answer to any thing someone doesn't like in Pakistan.
Im stating the obvious, ugly guy... Whether I support him or not, doesnt matter, his fate wont be any different from dictators before him... And just because people dont like him doesnt make them enemies of Pakistan, infact, he is the biggest enemy of Pakistan considering what hes trying to do.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Apart from Zia all of them died peacefully in their beds, although all of them were involved in worst crimes and should have been arrested and prosecuted. Nothing will happen to Musharraf either, he will most probably keep living in Islamabad and will die a natural death-but miracles happen...
lol maybe you dont about the house arrests and shame that befell on those leaders. Even if Ayub died peacefully in bed, ask your elders what the nation did to him, part of it was his own fault, those that live by dandey ka raaj arent treated very well when they go, and theres always a guy ready to make them the bakra too.
Re: Fate of Musharraf
does not justify anything
Re: Fate of Musharraf
Apart from Zia all of them died peacefully in their beds, although all of them were involved in worst crimes and should have been arrested and prosecuted. Nothing will happen to Musharraf either, he will most probably keep living in Islamabad and will die a natural death-but miracles happen...
By forgiving all politicians, the chances of what you said (bolded) are higher than before now, but then how much is decided by "public" or 'politicians' really ?