FATA

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I am bored. So very very very bored… Anyway lets do something constructive for a change. FATA, the area of our troubles and the area which we need to develop to solve this problem.

Firstly we have seen a military solution doesn’t work on this matter. It has to be political. But how? Do we just give them total independence from the rest of the country or do we force them to follow what we dictate, though they haven’t followed it for the past 60 odd years.

If we give them all the independence we need, then how are we stopping the area from being treated as a safe haven for the “terrorists”. On top of that, isn’t that a green signal for movements in Balochistan to do the same for greater autonomy?

Now economic development is say the major aspect of the peace process. But the men with power will not want this development and have rejected it for years because it erodes their power and the “customs” by which they live, which is basically a warped version of Islamic teachings.

So how do we give them economic development which aids the children and the women, while they keep their power and their personal fiefdoms?

Also social change. Though not necessary will be pushed by our liberal minded NGOs with little care for the disastrous effect it will have on the local cultures and local system. How do we limit the negative impact of such high-minded “help”?

Edit: I miss my rep bar! Give it back to me!!

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Re: FATA

FATA is divided into three categories. A, B, C. "A" being totally under gov't controll. "C" being totally independent (potentially with their own military).

Well there are couple of issues we need to deal first before we get to assimilate FATA with rest of the country. Biggest of them being:

  • FATA has their own system. They prefer not to give it up (even if it means, living in harsher condition). Musharraf has taken certain steps to convince them to start working with Fedral Gov't.

This will take a WHILE before we can get them to understand bigger picture

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Tough situation - and the biggest minds are at work on it, and no good solution has come through.

Part of the problem is that the chiefs who were in charge have been killed for the most part, and so now you've got new tribal leadership, which doesn't have much experience, but sure has a bone to pick with the Pakistani military for dropping bombs on it all the time. Even if you go with the negotiations approach, the way the current political parties are proposing, problems are going to grow, and its going to spread like a cancer throughout the region. We've already seen militants in the area have plans to invade the rest of Pakistan with their recent incursions into Swat and other nearby areas. Do you think they're just going to give up that plan and sit quietly and nicely because we've convinced them to do so?

At this point, I think full-on military fighting is really the only solution. Peace talks are not going to work - they didn't in the past when Musharraf tried them.

Cutting supplies coming in at the Af-Pak border and the Iran-Pak border are crucial, and monitoring who comes in and out of pakistan at the borders is also crucial. If they're not Pakistani, they need to be sent back. That's easier said than done, because many foreigners have married into Pakistani tribal families. However, any individual who is foreign needs to be sent back home, and the family can be given a choice to go back with him to his original country of origin or stay in Pakistan; and these families need government support - military jihad-ism is not their fault, and you don't want to breed a new generation of peeved off fatherless terrorists. Border control is CRUCIAL, and there is minimal evidence this is actually being done.

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Yea i think so too that now pakistani army is already in the thick of it, than full scale fight might help achieve government its objectives. Negotiations will only make them more strong and they will not leave it, till they will achieve their cause. But biggest question is if Pakistan government will be able to do it on the cost of Civilian casualties and economic hardship.

But no solution is best solution for current situation. Every step taken by government right now, will have lasting impacts in the long run.

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Re: FATA

Civilian casualties: That's the biggest problem. Because they're not planning their battles well, more than necessary collateral damage is occuring. And giving free signals for American predator drones to come in might not have been a good idea. Same issue being seen in Afghanistan and Iraq. The armies who want to achieve good positive goals aren't managing to do so because of :

poor planning

not focusing enough on sealing borders to cut weapon smuggling

not giving incentives to people on the ground to work on your side.

lack of good police force and local Pakistani control on ground in FATA areas - same goes for the other countries.

not working with positive local clergy in battling a dangerous interpretation of Islam with a positive one. Instead, their solution is to bring christian missionaries in, which only peeves off more muslims.

Serious cultural sensitivity training before going into these areas. Whether we like it or not, FATA areas have their own culture, and as unpalatable as it is to mainstream Pakistanis, soldiers need full training on how to behave with women and children and innocent bystander men in stressful situations.

I'd even go so far as to say that the general awaam in FATA needs to be fully armed to fight these jihaadis off their lands. Part of the problem is that the militants are loaded with weapons and if you disagree with them, they take you and your family out.

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Have "full-on military fighting" worked in past? Did US and coalition win against them in Iraq/Afghanistan?

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well actually we should take a page from the US in Iraq playbook, the recent campaigns against AQ, where sunni tribesmen were turned against their foreign guests. Drive a deeper wedge between foreigners and taleban folk. keep fighting foreigners, negotiate with the locals.

on the question of autonomy, insist on widening the stakeholders to the whole of FATA including the peaceful areas and NWFP and the Pakistan state to the extent that a compromise deal is more or less close to the current, pre-screwedup state setup.

on social and economic fronts, dont mess there. give them whatever is their fair share of resources and let them develop on their own. governmental social programs that aim to reform attitudes a particular way need to be terminated, though private missionary type efforts (islamic or otherwise) are fine. make clear that the only interest is in stopping anti-state activities, and not engineering a modern new look shining and godless FATA.

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^ agreed.

Captain, I ask you, has any peaceful technique worked so far? These guys are fully armed - they're not just going to toss away the weapons because we ask that of them. And any negotiations will just result in them getting stronger and more capable of infiltrating more mainstream parts of Pakistan. Do you remember the appeasement policicies of Western Europe as Hitler was getting stronger. We've been doing the same thing - appeasing Taliban in Afghanistan - you can do whatever you want there as long as you don't come into Pakistan. Did they uphold those agreements? Talibans had infilrated into Pakistan as soon as 911 happened, and perhaps even before there was some presence in the FATA areas.

You can't talk to these people anymore. Yes, you need to fight, and no it hasn't been successful in the past (except the recent anti-Swat infiltration operations, which sent the militants running out of Swat) - but this doesn't mean war is not an option. It means war IS the option, and we need to fight it more efficiently.

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Bribe them so they don't kill us. Simple.

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true, wherever possible people should be bought out and put on retainer until the army/intelligence is strong enough in that area to neutralize them as a force. it is usually cheaper to bribe them than to fight anyway. where that is not possible, and negotiation doesnt work, force is the only answer.

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A quick question all you armchair generals sitting in a nice recliner in the US, how many of you have actual military experience or any background knowledge of the FATA region? I ask this because you seem very willing, eager actually to have people die in both the Pakistan army and the Pakistani people in FATA for an agenda which has never been a problem for the past 60 odd years.

On to the main issues killing our own people. Now we look at the other regions of the world where this has happened, Northern Ireland, Basque, Kurds in Iran and peace worked all these cases. Appeasement only is an issue when the other party is unwilling to talk. The previous examples listed took the moral high road of not killing human beings and brought peace as a viable solution.

The people in FATA are willing to talk, after all you have all said that peace talks did not work? Additionally there are people who are pro-government. We need to stop thinking of these people as our enemies. I believe that is the first step in achieving peace. Not my idea, it what Nelson Mandela said.

Now first the people of FATA have given a lot for the country. They were the front line for 20 years in Afghanistan and they have fought in our previous wars to defend the country. That is enough in my opinion to butcher them for the paranoia some are feeling.

One should note since the current government came to power there have been no bomb blasts which were occurring with deadly regularity. So peace in my opinion is a viable option because they have welcomed the desire to enter into negotiations. That of course does not mean we roll over and play dead. After all FDR said "Speak softly but carry a big stick".

In my opinion the strategy of the current negotiations should be as follows:

  1. Emphasize a modern education for both boys and girls. Seperate schools like we have no in every part of Pakistan. No co-ed education.
  2. Emphasize the desire by the government to build the following in the region: Roads, school, hospitals and that is all. No military bases, no commercial set ups no aspect that would prove foriegn.
  3. Local employment in all these ventures. The local populace would be used to build the constructs, they would be trained to work there. The Pakistanis already there like doctors will be allowed to use the local hospitals/clinics as their own to aid the people.

These 3 points are to be used to create good will, which has been severely lacking in the past 2 years Musharraf's dictatorial rule. Now on to the political front.

These three points will be the basis for any political dialogue. In the political negotiations the aim will be to give the people in the region some autonomy in their affairs, but also get two very vital commitments from them. They will honor their loyalty to the country and their people by not attacking anybody within the Pakistan armed forces and the Pakistani people.

The second they will deal with people who threaten the stability of the country with extreme prejudice. Whatever they feel is necessary to safe guard the nation.

Lastly we deal with their views and concerns. I sad to say but no media outlets has yet to state what the FATA people want or what their main concerns are?

Im Bored
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Ya that's very... simple.... Genius......
Hmm ,...but wait....why didn't that dumb Pakistani government or US and its allies thought about it ?

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After 5 years of military misadventures in Iraq, US swallowed its pride and started bribing the so-called sunni insurgents so they stop killing US troops. Thats the honest truth about the "success" of "surge". At this time, estimates are that US is paying off about 70,000 Iraqis, who were previously insurgents.

Bribing your opponent so they don't kill you require you to let go of your ego. Pakistani government is probably still drunk that it is so militarily powerful that it can find a military solution to the "problem" in FATA/Waziristan/etc. They should learn the lesson from the most powerful military force in the world: US. Not everything has a military solution. Pak govt's current FATA policy is a no-win scenario.

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is this really a political or regional conflict?

I somehow had developed the impression that the provinces want to implement a strict interpretation of sharia which the federal g.o.p cannot accept presumably since it will clash with the laws of the land

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Swat may have the issue of implemention of sharia, but that is only by a marginal group. I don't think implementation of sharia is the basic issue in FATA. It has more to do with them providing sanctuaries to foreigners.

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How about not fighting America’s failed War on terror?

Jahil Tribals right?

Armchair generals is right, everyone is an expert without stepping in the area, knowing the history. Pakistan turned its back on FATA not the other way around.