Faith?

[queer]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

In true sense. People looking for God. Finding it and accepting the message.
Like that.

Just because people are looking for something doesnt mean it has any truth to it. People also look for homeo doctors that can cure diseases in this day and age.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@queer

Just because people are looking for something doesnt mean it has any truth to it. People also look for homeo doctors that can cure diseases in this day and age.

In true sense meant. Truest meaning of conversion. That dude wanted to start a new argument about the word “conversion”, so I told him what I meant by conversion.

Off course people looking for some thing doesn’t make it true.
Other version of this fact is, people born in some thing does not make it wrong.

If every one was born in awesome Canada, they would not have to move to Canada because its an awesome country.. right ? They are already there.

[Balthier]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

In true sense meant. Truest meaning of conversion. That dude wanted to start a new argument about the word “conversion”, so I told him what I meant by conversion.

No “that dude” did not want to start a new argument. My argument was that Islam, like all other religions, rely on indoctrination to stay relevant. It was a continuation of the debate between you and queer.

Queer: Most people blindly follow the faith they inherit.
Monk: Not Islam, because there are so many people converting to it.

Balthier: At least 95% (probably even more) of muslims are born into Islam. They do not choose Islam after thorough research on the subject, but rather its chosen for them by their parents. Also majority of mankind is not persuaded by the theology and teachings of Islam, or any other single religion.

All religions rely on indoctrination to stay relevant over time. No religion is strong enough to stand on its own, and let its theology and teachings speak for itself. If there was such a religion, there would be a mass influx of people converting to it. And then I’m thinking of hundreds of millions, not a million or two every now and then.

[Thornewood9]

Re: Faith?

@Mindless

Maybe whatever you have said is right, that’s what we have learned to believe that God is the most nearer one. He tests people according to their tolerance level. That’s what we have learnt. But my question remains, where is HE when HE is most needed? where was HE when the school incident happened in Peshawar? The bus incident in Karachi? Can a mother see her child suffering like this? Why are people suffering everywhere in the world? What type of test is that which is never ending? People are losing their lives day and night and then there is this test which never ends Their world ends but the test does not! Maybe one of the reasons people are turning into atheists?

The most beloved humans to Allah were His prophets pbut and they were all tested with calamity and hardship. The prophet pbuh was thrown out of his home, he was persecuted by his own people, his own uncles hated him and tried to kill him. He lost all but one of his children during his lifetime. He was tested with poverty and hunger and pain and grief. None of us have been tested so severely as the prophets. And these people were the closest to Allah. And the tests did not shake their faith. This whole life is a test. You are tested up until your death. This life isn’t a reward. The hereafter is the reward for the tests we faced in this life. Allah does not interfere with our tests. What teacher interferes with the students test?
Just something to think about.

[queer]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

If every one was born in awesome Canada, they would not have to move to Canada because its an awesome country.. right ? They are already there.

yeah but if they start saying Canada is the only real country, then we have a comparable analogy.

most people live in the countries they were born into. simpal fact, pal.

[Balthier]

Re: Faith?

@queer

yeah but if they start saying Canada is the only real country, then we have a comparable analogy.

Or that if you don’t live in Canada, or think its awesome, you are going to be tormented for all eternity.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@Balthier

Queer: Most people blindly follow the faith they inherit.
Monk: Not Islam, because there are so many people converting to it.
.

No more like.

Queer: every one is born in some thing they keep believing it.
Monk: what about people who are moving over from XYZ to islam.. and it has x100s more conversion then any other.

essentially my point was only against one little point queer made.

But for you, in order to make a point, have imagine thing which did not happen.

We will discuss “problems” with islam after we discuss thinking patterns and argument patterns..
sounds fair ??

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@queer

yeah but if they start saying Canada is the only real country, then we have a comparable analogy.

most people live in the countries they were born into. simpal fact, pal.

True.
But can you in right state of mind disregard argument of a Canadain, saying he lives in best country, because he lives in it ???
And
Mathematically, if there are 15 counties one had to be better then others ? Like one number has to be higher then other.

Telling 9 “oh you think you are higher then 1…8 because you are 9” is very silly argument.. we have to use other argument to find if 9 is indeed higher then 1 2 3 4…8

You have to get to step 2 of logic now Queer. its about time.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@Balthier

Or that if you don’t live in Canada, or think its awesome, you are going to be tormented for all eternity.

See what I mean… starting 10s of argument from one argument is classic of non believers…
We have been warned.
Red part is an other argument which need to dealt separately.
I am not going to response you, un till you argue reasonably.

Because I have lot of work to do today

[queer]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

Mathematically, if there are 15 counties one had to better then others ? Like one number has to be higher then other.

Numbers yes. They are quantities that represent something. Imaginary fairytales that have no proof or validity on the other hand arent. Is the tooth fairy better than the easter bunny? They are both silly and not real.

[Balthier]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

But for you, in order to make a point, have imagine thing which did not happen.

Please let me know what I imagined? My point of contention was perfectly in line with the argument Queer raised, which you felt did not hold water wrt Islam.

@Monk

See what I mean… starting 10s of argument from one argument is classic of non believers…
We have been warned.
Red part is an other argument which need to dealt separately.
I am not going to response you, **un till you argue reasonably. **

Because I have lot of work to do today

I could say likewise to you my friend.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@queer

Numbers yes. They are quantities that represent something. Imaginary fairytales that have no proof or validity on the other hand arent. Is the tooth fairy better than the easter bunny? They are both silly and not real.

Goes back to point one…
How much time you have spent to learn our “fairy tale”.
If answer is less then 20 min in life time , then you are only looking what you know.. of other religions into islam. What more I could say.
As an example… a kid from broken family keep thinking there is parent love.. etc.. some thing like that.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@Balthier

Please let me know what I imagined? My point of contention was perfectly in line with the argument Queer raised, which you felt did not hold water wrt Islam.

.

But you put queer’s point and my point, and thought some thing which did not happened.

[queer]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

Goes back to point one…
How much time you have spent to learn our “fairy tale”.
If answer is less then 20 min in life time , then you are only looking what you know.. of other religions into islam. What more I could say.
As an example… a kid from broken family keep thinking there is parent love.. etc.. some thing like that.

what makes you think i dont already know your fairytale? adam and eve is a fable, not the origin of humans.

[Balthier]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

But you put queer’s point and my point, and thought some thing which did not happened.

Sorry, I don’t see it that way. Queer’s point was that all religions rely on indoctrination, your point as I see it, was that Islam does not. So I showed to demographic facts, and how Islam, is just as reliant on indoctrination, as all other religions. The mere fact that God leaves it to indoctrination for man to salvage his soul from eternal torment, surely must be a scary thought, no?

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@queer

what makes you think i dont already know your fairytale? adam and eve is a fable, not the origin of humans.

Fact that you use arguments like above before post 34, to disregard it.

[queer]

Re: Faith?

@Monk

Fact that you use arguments like above before post 34, to disregard it.

are you saying that adam and eve is not the answer from your fairytale to what the origin of human beings is?

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@Balthier

Sorry, I don’t see it that way. Queer’s point was that all religions rely on indoctrination, your point as I see it, was that Islam does not. So I showed to demographic facts, and how Islam, is just as reliant on indoctrination, as all other religions. The mere fact that God leaves it to indoctrination for man to salvage his soul from eternal torment, surely must be a scary thought, no?

yeah hell is scary place.
May be that is its point.
God hints over and over and over about his very sophisticated system of accountability.
And promise that not a single soul would complain about his justice. And tells what he is going to get out of punishing people. etc etc…
So dont worry too much.. and do good.

[Monk]

Re: Faith?

@queer

are you saying that adam and eve is not the answer from your fairytale to what the origin of human beings is?

So from now to onward please focus your effort to learn islam about this question.
Don’t let “silly people following islam” because that argument is been over used by silly people from the past see here
"…] they say, “Should we believe as the foolish have believed?”

Adam and eve did not happen 6000s ago in quan, quran tells don’t argue how many genration passed between “some one(forgot the name) and abrahim” Telling that what people believed 6000 year old humanity is not true.

So dont put weight of that 6000 old earth story on us not our story.

I have no way to prove that people did come from adam and eve.
You believe people came from monkeys. so…
There is nothing more to this argument.

[queer]

Re: Faith?

This is another problem. If you don’t have an answer, you write an essay on your topic of choice. Unacceptable.

What is this 6000 years you keep talking of. It doesnt matter if it is 6000 or 600000000, adam and eve has been debunked comprehensively as a fable.

Nor do I believe people come from monkeys - please take time to learn science based on real research and proofs. We and monkeys come from the same ancestors. And if you go back in time long enough, all life on this planet is of shared origin.