^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I was reading someone’s blog when I came across this question.

So what really is destiny? Can a person change his/her destiny? Don’t actions also play part? Would it be right to leave everything to Allah (labeling it as faith/imaan) and not take any actions because “you will get whatever is in your destiny”??

If the last sentence in above paragraph is true, then doesn’t that mean I don’t have to pray, don’t have to be nice to those who deserve it,** don’t** have to do pretty much anything and can do whatever my heart desires (even if that goes against teachings of Islam) because *“I will get whatever is in my destiny (in this case, in the hereafter)” *

Please keep this thread on topic, without turning it into another war zone (the very reason why I avoid posting in Religion forum). JazakhAllah Khair.

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

AsSalaam-O-Alaikum!

In my views,

Destiny is the soft destination. What i mean by that is that, while it does exist, it can be changed. If you do good deed, work hard, the destiny will be molded in accordance with your actions. Faith is when you try to do the best that you can and hope that Allah makes it sufficient for your success.

To simple do nothing, and to term that as 'Whatever happens happens, i have faith'....is absolutely wrong and misleading. Such is not called faith. The only time i believe faith is termed in that context is when you have done all you could possibly do to better yourself, and what isn't in your control, you leave upto Allah, and have faith. Never lose hope.

Allah Hafiz

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

I think that is a good response teggy...

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Peace Hum_Hain_Lajawab

There is nothing that can change Qadr .... except du'a.
[This is paraphrased from Hadith]

Also ...
Qadr is the potential of something, but it requires nurturing for that potential to be realised.

For example the Qadr of a seed is to become a tree, but it will not do this unless we plant it, water it and provide it light.

Consider a ball it is being shot at an angle of 30 degrees to the horizontal ... the trajectory of this is a projectile it can be calculated and the ball will land at it's destination, unless sometime during it's path it gets affected by an external force. Say this force is a gust of wind ...

The trajectory is the Qadr ... The wind is the accepted du'a that changes that Qadr. Even then the magnitude and direction of the wind can be calculated and the landing point can be worked out, which means it again is classed as Qadr ... which is known by Allah (SWT).

The argument to refute someone who says "I will get whatever is in my destiny" is to ask them "So what is in your destiny?" They may say ... "If it is good, then I can afford to be selfish, but if it is bad then I might as well get what I can now" answer them with this ... "Well if you can believe in Qadr, because Islam says so, then you can also believe in Heaven and Hell on Islam's say so ... and for that you need to avoid evil and enjoin good to be in for a good chance".

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

a strong faith in destiny shaped by Allah's will and also, a person's own sincere and honest efforts.
best,
Dushwari

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To Bro Psyah

Brother I believe that nothing can change Qadr except will+action...It is God's law: He does not change the condition of a people until the people do not change themselves. Of course, da'a is important: "Ud'oonee astajoblakum" but I feel people fail to realize that this may mean that God has already provided us (he is the Raheem: Unbiased Provider of Resources) with what we need to accomplish a goal: All we have to do is reach out and take action! Again, this is my understanding but I understand your stance too. The da'a is for the realization of the fact that it is the Rabb who provded the opportunities to accomplish the goals (but the act of provision was already done - and is not a reactive process)

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Good posts everyone.

If destiny is without will+action, doesn't that mean I should stop praying and not fulfill all the other fardh? I mean take the example of Prophet (S.A.W), did he just sit at home doing duas or did he take action and actually went out, and then (only THEN), left the rest to Allah?

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

^ exactly, Nemo. may Allah swt give baseeret to all, to be mindful of this truth.
leaving to Allah swt, only when one has done all one could humanly possible to do something good and obtain that what is desired and is noble.
amen
Dushwari

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

There is an Ahadith with regards to lost shoelaces; that we should invoke to Allah SWT even if it is for that... lekin iss ka matlab ye nahi ke dua ker ke beith ja'e and hope that it'll magically appear infront of you!

Thats why when I'm trying to find stuff, I am constantly reaidng "inna lillahi...", aur jab mill ja'e to Zikr aur shukr bhi Allah ka hi kar ti houN.

I find it kinda annoying that ppl say stuff like well if I'm gonna go to hell/ heaven then it doesn't really matter what I do! touba! we dont apply these silly theories to daily life but expect it to work for the eternal one. Which man sits at home expecting rizq to come to him? none! most sane ppl would go out, do mehnut and then Inshallah God will bless them with the rewards of their efforts.

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Peace hypnotix-2000

I know you don't follow hadith but for what it is worth here they are:

"Nothing increase one's life-span except good deeds, and nothing repels Divine Decree except du'a. And verily, a person may be deprived of sustenance due to a sin that he does!" Ibn Majah No. 90

"Caution will be of no benefit against Divine Decree, but du'a benefits all things, whether they come down or not. I therefore advise you to make du'a, O servants of Allah!" (Weak) by At-Tabarani No. 4785

And Tirmidhi No. 7687 is similar but is considered Sahih.

Yes we need to make it clear ...

Du'a + Action is like the charity behind the intention, the contribution that we need to give ...

du'a + inaction = ghost (soul without the body)
action + no du'a = golem (body without soul)

Shouldn't the title of the thread be .... Decision vs Destiny?

Anyway .... I really like mathematics with limit theorem ... it helps me understand especially iterative processes. Sometimes I found that some iterative steps would take us out of the iterative loop, but yet other steps kept us confined to those loops forever tending towards this .... inevitable asymptotic end - the destiny.

Destiny is like an asymptote and how iterative methods try to converge to the goal.

It lies on the decisions we make ... our decisions are governed by our intentions and our intentions are but a du'a if we include consciousness of Allah in our affairs, but they are merely whims if we absolve Him from our thoughts.

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Just as du'a without action is useless ... action without du'a is useless ... well at least for some things.

du'a pervades over action in matters of Qadr ...

Even the doctor's say ... "we can only pray now"

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^


Peace brother,
For what it's worth, I think we are in agreement here :)

I like the limit theorem too :D


However, God's Will is that we do the right thing, so anyone who does the right thing because it is the right thing to do (even if he/she does not know it's God's will), is also included in this. Ultimately, he/she is doing what God would have wanted from them in the first place. I think that is where our difference lies, not in the asymptote and not even in the iteration.

So my take on this:

action without realization(da'a) = chances of divergence or slower convergence (consistancy might not always be possible - we're human)

no action = chances of stagnation

As for the title, I second that opinion mods!

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Peace bro

The source that tells us to believe in Qadr is that same source that tells us to pray ... if we take our understanding of Qadr due to our finite natures it will lead us to conjecture and going astray ... it is because we can only think in terms of cause and effect and this phenomenon is clearly non-discrete.

A small warning also:

Point numbers 57 and 58 in Imam At-Tahawi's Creedal Formula

  1. The essence of divine decree is God's secret within creation. No intimate angel or prophetic emissary has ever been privy to it.

  2. Delving into the decree is a means to spiritual loss, a descent into deprivation, and a path toward transgression. So beware, and take every precaution against that, whether through perusal, ideation, or suggestion. God, the Sublime and Exalted, has concealed knowledge of the decree from His creatures and has prohibited them from desiring it. As the Sublime said in His Book, He is not questioned about what He does - it is they who will be questioned (21:23). Hence, anyone who asks, "Why has He done this?" has rejected the judgment of the Book. And whoever rejects the judgment of the Book is among the disbelievers.

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Nothing happens without the Will of Allah
When we do something He Wills it
When we take measures to do that something He Wills it
When we make an intention to take those measures He Wills it
If we ask from Him or do not ask from Him He Wills it
If we are aware of Him or not aware He Wills it
To get that thought and be able to entertain it ... He Willed it

In everything we do we understand our subservience but when we reach a state of self-awareness and congnitive distance we deceive ourselves ...

That we locked the car, really it was the key that locked it, really it was force given to the key, really locked is just a condition of the mind ...

These loops should render us humble ... and before Him we appear utterly submitting subservient ... that is path inshaAllah to guidance.

So by disobeying using our congnitive tools we are conflicting with the nature that we are bound by, which is subservience at every level. Therefore, by conforming to nature the natural thing to do is to prostrate befoe our Lord, by choosing not pray we have already done too much thinking.

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

Brother I think it is not the "what" we are disagreeing on, it is the "how"... but this "how" has certain implications on what we are saying. That's all I had to add.

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Very nice replies brother teggy, Pysah, hypnotix-2000 & sister Dushwari. JazakAllah khair

Once a man entered a masjid and asked Hazrat Ali (r.a) " What is Fate ?"

Hazrat Ali (r.a) said," Lift your one foot in the air." He did so.

Hazrat Ali (r.a) said," Now lift the other one." (while being in the same position)

He replied,"I can't"

Hazrat Ali (r.a) said," This is answer to your question. Half of it Allah has given to you in your hand, and the rest HE has kept to Himself."

**The Rest **might change with sincere duas

Just to explain the Rest a bit more. It is not in our control to chose our parents, brother sister....etc. Also we chose our life partner only from the option of people whom we come across in our lives. Allah choses the people whom we **come across **because Allah selected our mutual time of existance, our continant, our country, our city...etc.

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Re: ^^^ Faith Vs. Destiny ^^^

Peace Bro. Submission To Peace

This is exactly what I hope is understood in this topic. That seemingly impossible things are also achieved by people and there is no effort that can make that possible except du'a.

Such as combatting gravity, the heat of fire, surviving the grips of death such as with the child who was DESTINED to death in the account of the People of the Ditch but he did du'a to comabt his situation. Every Prophet performed a du'a before amazing miracles happened.

With all things feasible we can but do all we can but should never forget that trust in Allah (SWT) is essential for understanding Qadr ... and then living with it.

Consider it like this ... that Faith is to Knowledge that Qadr is to an Event ..

If we cross a river using a broken bridge it will take us nearly to the other side but then the rest will require a jump, rather a running jump. If getting to the other side is analogous to achievement then the bridge is analogous to effort and jumping the gap is analogous to Divine assistance. Sometimes the gap is small, sometimes it is so big that physical natural laws need to be compromised, such as lifting that other foot.

JazakAllah Khair bro.

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JazakAllah khair brother psyah for a beautiful and comprehensive reply.