exuent ravage

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

this thread is primarily addressed to religion forum posters, tho not abt religion. mods please decide if its supposed to be in religion or general

i notice that over the past few days I have been inordinately active in the religion forum, assuming the role of an active Shia-Muslim advocate. Some of this has been triggered because of my own tendencies to be vocal about my beliefs, some of it because of the unmitigated and at times, infuriatingly irresponsible remarks about them from others who dont share them.

whereas some of this time has seen some fruitful discourses, the majority of these were pointless headlong plunges into the same old bickering that i find demeaning to the “brotherhood” of Muslims.

furthermore, coming back to this forum after a space of half a day, I notice that threads on this topic have gone from 3 to 15. I do not have the time to spare at this point to do justice to them. Furthermore I suspect that a lot of them contain material written with the intent of petty point scoring and causing offence.

therefore, I ask that you exclude me from those whom you expect to reply to such a thread.

this person you see seeking things to demean other people’s beliefs with, is not me, atleast not usually. i apologise if i did that to anyone and ask that you bear in mind the Prophets way when convincing people. everyone here atleast believes that his way was the ultimate in conduct.

that said, recent days do demonstrate that this is a very contentious issue, with no easy answers. i will be reading up on my own, and (hopefully) with an impartial eye at the sunni texts. you ought to do the same, in my opinion.

finally, neither side should assume anything about an individuals beliefs. remember the Prophets anger because Hazrat Bilal killed a jew whom he suspected of accepting Islam to save his life? If someone says he is a Muslim, be a decent person, if not a decent Muslim, and take his word for it. you have nothing to gain from calling him a liar. and even if you think that people in the past subscribing to the beliefs of this individual were guilty of Kufr, that does not impact this persons beliefs in Allah or his Prophet or the Quran.

regards.

2

I agree with you that many times we see posters here going round in circles again and again trying to prove a point. Many other times, they feel unless they convince the other person, their job is not done, and so they don't give up and keep on badgering.

In my view, the purpose of this forum, just like any other online forum, is not really to convince the other person, but rather to share knowledge or ask questions. If someone is stuck on a position, it is only Allah who can make the other person see the issue from a different view point, because these are all matters of faith. Two people can come to two radically different conclusions on the same text, depending upon what their pre-conceaved notions are about the authenticity and about the relevance.

Lastly, in matters of faith, we have to be patient and not let our emotions run all over the place. Showing anger and cursing other people will never make your point more relevant. It will only put off the readers.

Personally speaking, I participate in many discussions, where I feel I can add a point or two. And many times, when I feel I have hit a dead wall, I walk away. Even when the other person will constantly be taunting by saying "why don't you reply". In my view it is not impotant who has the last post. It is more important to clearly explain what you want to say and read carefully what the other has to say and then participate further if you feel it is worth the effort. If its not, just walk away instead of continuing going in circles saying "I am right and you are wrong". That kind of discussion doesn't go anywhere.

3

A few months back a poll was conducted by Faisal which asked if Shia Sunni threads be allowed in the religion forum...I was one of the couple of people who were vehemently against it for a number of reasons...

1) No one here is a scholar, and things get said which hurt and heat up arguments...

2) They cause strife between the brotherhood, something which I totally oppose...In an age where the Ummah is being kicked around like a football, to bring up these matters only segregate us instead of uniting us...

3) It was my plea to the Shia brothers and sisters, since they don't hold many Ashaba-e-Karaam in respect but we Sunnis do, to leave those Ashaba-e-Karaam out of the discussions here as they are held in great esteem by the Sunnis...I further requested them that if you wish to curse any of the people that the Sunnis hold in high regard, please do not do it here as it would hurt us...

What you do in your gatherings whether you curse, mourn or abuse anyone you wish, please do it amongst yourselves because the people you abuse are deeply respected by others, but no...Some people had to bring those people in and drag incidences which happened 1,400 years ago which neither make us good Muslims or bad Muslims, just to incite misunderstandings...

The Moratorium which was in effect I think was a very positive thing which was implemented, as a result, many new non-Muslim members joined GupShup to learn of Islam and new posts were being opened by members regarding different points of views about ours and other's faiths...

Look at religion forum now...I hardly want to visit here now...50 threads, all pointing fingers at each other...

I believe that moratorium should once again be implemented immediately or a sub forum for Shia-Sunni-Wahabi-Barelvi blah blah be created so at least people who are interested in Islam can ask regular questions and be enlightened, instead of coming in here and seeing a free-for-all between the different sects of Islam...

4

Lajawab, thanks for the comments and some of them are really worth considering. Not just by me but by all members here.

The Moratorium is lifted, but the Rules of the Religion forum are still here. And rule #3 is very clear.

Rules of Religion Forum](http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showrules.php?s=&forumid=20)

To those who have not read it, they need to do so very quickly and follow it. I am implementing the rules consistenly, and I do notice that there are certain members here who will frequently go overboard. I know some of them are excited either because they are new here, or because of the month of Moharram or because they feel that since Moratorium is lifted so they are free to post whatever they want.

At this moment when someone violates the forum rules, they are just provided warnings in the threads. Very soon, if they don’t shape up, they will start accumulating 10 warning points for each violation of the rules and, as I had said before, once someone gets to 30 warning points, that person is kicked out of GUPSHUP.

I don’t want to impose a Moratorium, especially during the month of Moharram ul Haraam, but if the members are deemed incapable of carrying out discussions in a mature and positive manner, then we will all re-visit this issue.

Thank you. :slight_smile:

5

IMO Lajawab, you can ask people to stop pointing fingers without pointing fingers. Grievances are usually never unilateral..

I dont wish to sound bitter, or contradictory. but most conflicts start because people attempt to take the higher moral ground.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
A few months back a poll was conducted by Faisal which asked if Shia Sunni threads be allowed in the religion forum...I was one of the couple of people who were vehemently against it for a number of reasons...

1) No one here is a scholar, and things get said which hurt and heat up arguments...

2) They cause strife between the brotherhood, something which I totally oppose...In an age where the Ummah is being kicked around like a football, to bring up these matters only segregate us instead of uniting us...

3) It was my plea to the Shia brothers and sisters, since they don't hold many Ashaba-e-Karaam in respect but we Sunnis do, to leave those Ashaba-e-Karaam out of the discussions here as they are held in great esteem by the Sunnis...I further requested them that if you wish to curse any of the people that the Sunnis hold in high regard, please do not do it here as it would hurt us...

What you do in your gatherings whether you curse, mourn or abuse anyone you wish, please do it amongst yourselves because the people you abuse are deeply respected by others, but no...Some people had to bring those people in and drag incidences which happened 1,400 years ago which neither make us good Muslims or bad Muslims, just to incite misunderstandings...

The Moratorium which was in effect I think was a very positive thing which was implemented, as a result, many new non-Muslim members joined GupShup to learn of Islam and new posts were being opened by members regarding different points of views about ours and other's faiths...

Look at religion forum now...I hardly want to visit here now...50 threads, all pointing fingers at each other...

I believe that moratorium should once again be implemented immediately or a sub forum for Shia-Sunni-Wahabi-Barelvi blah blah be created so at least people who are interested in Islam can ask regular questions and be enlightened, instead of coming in here and seeing a free-for-all between the different sects of Islam...
[/QUOTE]

6

just a suggestion. i am so surprised that in the most
sensitive month, mor was lifted from this discussion board.
Suban Allah.
I want to request Shia's not to write against Sahabass(RA).
Just do it in your Imam barghaas.Plz not here.
when we argue, i see a lot of Ka_ nies and AH M_ IS.
Very happy.Yeah, followers of M_ RZA.
So do not give them a chance.

take care

7

you guys have raised some good points. It seems to be open season on shias these days. People just posting random stuff that comes in their heads and then go off on all tangents, leaving us wondering where on earth to start. Others prefer to open up a can of worms, then question why we have to bring up the past in response. like wha? no wonder then some members get all defensive and respond in kind.

In the end its not really what people say that gets to others, but how they say it. for example, you can criticise matam all you want, but do so respectfully. sit on a high horse while dishing out ignorant judgments, and in no time the response will hit you hard and yea its gonna hurt. soon the knives come out and theres no going back. well there goes the well meaning discussion you had hoped for, right?

8

Haan bhai humari taraf say bhi sub say mazrat ... Hum mushkil say hi iss forum main atay hain ... aaj kal thorri fursat thi ... socha kuch jaan lain ....
Humara nahi khayal ke hum phir yahan koi post kar lain gay ya kisi dicussion main hissa lain gay ... iss liay bhi sub say mazrat kar rahay hain .. aghar koi baat bori lagi ho to darguzar day kaam lain.

or khass kar Rehman1 Sahab say mazrat kiyon ke un ko humari posts bilkul achi nahi lagi .... I am sorry Bhai .. Hum nay to umar kay naqshay main waqt bharna hay ......... umeed hay aap bemaar dil ki mazrat qabool kar lain gay oor waisay bhi gaflat say barri or kia bemari ho sakti hay.

Adab

9

I think you can when mortimoriam days were better It should be imposed to avoid secterian disscusions.