Expressing Gratitude

[Muzna]

There are many different ways to express gratitude around the world.
Some go to great lengths to provide a hand-written note that details the gift that you have given and how much it is appreciated; perhaps even how it will be put to good use or enjoyed.

The most common way is to utter a simple: “Thank you.”

Why is this so difficult for many Pakistani people to do?

Simple example: Our parents taught us that when you are invited to someone’s place for dinner, you go with a gift for the host/hostess. You are courteous and polite while there and thank them when you leave. The next day you follow up to thank them properly; usually with a phone call.

Why don’t desi people do this?
Why did my parents teach me this? Obviously they learned it somewhere…

[redvelvet]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Hmmm...I guess it doesn't bother me. Let's say I go to some aunti's home with a gift. The host may not have even expected gifts...I know my parents don't. She thanks me for the gift. The fact that she invited me to her home....maybe spent hours to clean it....spent money on the ingredients to make the meal...invested time in cooking the meal....runs about the kitchen like a headless chicken to arrange for the serving........and then will have to spend time cleaning up the place when it's all over......is more than enough. And many times the host puts more effort into hosting the dawat than the guest puts into getting her a gift.....cuz sometimes the gift given was lying around the home and was simply re-gifted. The gift that I and other guests get the was the gratitude that we showed the host for her efforts. She did a favor to us...we returned it with a favor. So hisaab baraabar....to some extent. That's one way of looking at it...and if you look at it this way....then maybe the failure to write a thank you card can be shrugged off.

Now for things like weddings....I know that we write thank you cards and I've seen other desis do so as well.

[mahool]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Most desi do that. Desi themselves are from various background, Different value system and different style of saying thanks. Some thinks that dawat was their haq, while other think courtesy.
Your parents have value system therefore they taught you.

[mahool]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Rakh Rakho walay log...

[Muzna]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Hmmm...I guess it doesn't bother me. Let's say I go to some aunti's home with a gift. The host may not have even expected gifts...I know my parents don't. She thanks me for the gift. The fact that she invited me to her home....maybe spent hours to clean it....spent money on the ingredients to make the meal...invested time in cooking the meal....runs about the kitchen like a headless chicken to arrange for the serving........and then will have to spend time cleaning up the place when it's all over......is more than enough. And many times the host puts more effort into hosting the dawat than the guest puts into getting her a gift.....cuz sometimes the gift given was lying around the home and was simply re-gifted. The gift that I and other guests get the was the gratitude that we showed the host for her efforts. She did a favor to us...we returned it with a favor. So hisaab baraabar....to some extent. That's one way of looking at it...and if you look at it this way....then maybe the failure to write a thank you card can be shrugged off.

Now for things like weddings....I know that we write thank you cards and I've seen other desis do so as well.

Sorry....let me clarify. I think you misunderstood.
I did not mean for the hostess to write me a thank you note for the gift that I brought. Of course that is not necessary. In that example I was pointing out how I would follow up the next day with a thank you for the invitation.

The expectation of a thank you is mainly directed to occasions where I am shelling out hundreds of dollars as a birthday, bismillah, engagement or wedding gift.

[redvelvet]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Sorry....let me clarify. I think you misunderstood. I did not mean for the hostess to write me a thank you note for the gift that I brought. Of course that is not necessary. In that example I was pointing out how I would follow up the next day with a thank you for the invitation.

The expectation of a thank you is mainly directed to occasions where I am shelling out hundreds of dollars as a birthday, bismillah, engagement or wedding gift.

No need to apologize. I did misunderstand and it was my fault. I think I read a simlar thread elsewhere and maybe got confused or perhaps I read too fast, but thanks for clarifying.

I haven't really seen that among non-Desi folks. I have seen that they'll bring a gift as a thank you for the invite but it's not necessarily followed up with a thank you for the invitation.

Maybe for some folks, the gift they brought is sufficient gratitude. My parents love doing dawats and they go all out and are known for doing a delicious hearty spread, MashaAllah. While my mom hasn't received thank you cards from Aunties....she really does appreciate those who compliment her on the food and effort. Even with my sister's wedding...my parents still appreciate those that came up to them an complimented the wedding. What I'm trying to say is that if it's something you were taught to do by your parents and that you enjoy doing...then you should do it. I feel that the host would appreciate it and feel more motivated to hold more events and it strengthens rapport b/w people. So do it with these benefits in mind and possibly also the benefit of ajar from Allah...and try not to expect the same from others as people show gratitude differently.

Another way to look at it is that sometimes Desi folks can get picky about laina-daina...traditions...hospitality....so if we have some dheel or laxity in terms of not having to follow-up with an additional thank you...then that's kinda nice too. We already have too many formalities in other ways....like number of suits for a bari....who should be gifted among in-laws etc etc....that it can bog one down and reduce the fun of special occasions.

So basically there is good in sending a thank you card and there is even good in not having to do so. The former is more enjoyable if done without expectation. The minute we start expecting others do the same as us...it reduces the joy in doing that deed.

[Monk]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

I rather remember and return the favour even after 10 years.
Rather then a shallow "thanks" with fake smile on some ones face.

[Muzna]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

So this thread is derailing into a direction that was not intended.
The thank you card thread is in the wedding section. That stems from some recent weddings that I’ve attended.

This thread was launched to get a better understanding of what our culture dictates about saying “Thank you” for gifts received. I don’t think I did a very good job in my opening post. Let me give it another try…

In Pakistan what do you do when someone gives you a substantial gift? (i.e. of significant monetary value)
For example…in Chinese culture, I think…you’re supposed to decline the gift three times before you accept it reluctantly. In Japan it is not polite to open the gift in front of the giver.

What are the related rules for Pakistani culture?

[Monk]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

thats easy,
Give me gift of significant monetary value, and I would tell you how it felt. :D

[Muzna]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

So nobody has any idea about this?

[khattichic]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

I was also taught by my parents that any gift, wether it was a birthday gift or an Eid gift wagera should be followed with a written thank you, or a personal phone call at the very least. It's something I am very strict about with my boys as well, but sadly I don't see it much anywhere in my desi circle, not even in my own family.

For Example, I helped my cousin and his wife find and buy there first home. I not only gave them a kickback of my sales commission (which they asked for by the way lol) but at the closing I gifted their daughters some personalized canvas wall art for their new rooms which I made myself.

I never received or heard a thank you once for either "gift". I don't expect anything in return nor do I believe in laina-daina, but a simple thank you is warranted.

[redvelvet]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

@Muzna

So this thread is derailing into a direction that was not intended.
The thank you card thread is in the wedding section. That stems from some recent weddings that I’ve attended.

This thread was launched to get a better understanding of what our culture dictates about saying “Thank you” for gifts received. I don’t think I did a very good job in my opening post. Let me give it another try…

In Pakistan what do you do when someone gives you a substantial gift? (i.e. of significant monetary value)
For example…in Chinese culture, I think…you’re supposed to decline the gift three times before you accept it reluctantly. In Japan it is not polite to open the gift in front of the giver.

What are the related rules for Pakistani culture?

We went to Pak last year for my sister’s wedding shopping. Several of my relatives gave a huge amount of money as a gift. And one of my uncles gave a huge amount in dollars. My parents did not accept the entire amount…and urged relos to reduce it.

My mom’s friend (here in the US) gave a considerable amount of money + gifts for my sister and both my parents (especially mom) refused it several times…and I mean several times. I was there and my mom kept insisting that aunti at least reduce the amount of the money. But she and my mom are very close MashaAllah and my mom had gone out of her way to do something special for aunti when her own daughter got married the previous year…so I think aunti wanted to return the kindness though my mom wasn’t expecting that much.

In cases of extravagant gifts my mom reminds us to call the aunti and say thank you or to write a card. But we have done so for even less extravagant things. Not too long ago an aunti came over for a casual visit with a container of this homemade mithai that she knows I love. She had made it especially for me and I wasn’t around when she came. So, I called up aunti and thanked her and made a mental note of making something for her as well. If I had been present when aunti was there…I would have thanked her face to face…and that would be sufficient imo…but I would make remind myself to return the kindness at a later point.

So, what I’ve seen in my family…we decline substantial gifts…we thank the person either face to face or via card or phone call…sometimes it’s one of these methods…sometimes it’s a combo of methods. But one thing that my parents are good about is that we will MashaAllah se try to return the kindness in the future…and I’ve learned that from them.

I know that we’ll take small gifts to a dawat like a box of chocolates etc…and that’s just as a courtesy…and for something like that we don’t expect a thank you card not do we write one.

So, I hope this answers your question and sorry about the earlier confusion.

[StrangeOne]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

Generally wedding money is given back tit for tat to the giver's children at their weddings. We helped your kids because we know you've or you will help ours kind of mentality. So it's considered a generational exchange of money rather each gift being taken out of context and thanked for separately. When you have people who remember your grandparents' mediocre gift your gift might elevate you up a notch but not by much.

If the gift is excessive then a lot of haggling should be expected.

[ekumunng]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

There are many different ways to express gratitude around the world. Some go to great lengths to provide a hand-written note that details the gift that you have given and how much it is appreciated; perhaps even how it will be put to good use or enjoyed.

The most common way is to utter a simple: "Thank you."

Why is this so difficult for many Pakistani people to do?

Simple example: Our parents taught us that when you are invited to someone's place for dinner, you go with a gift for the host/hostess. You are courteous and polite while there and thank them when you leave. The next day you follow up to thank them properly; usually with a phone call.

Why don't desi people do this? Why did my parents teach me this? Obviously they learned it somewhere...

Agreed with everything but the follow up next day usually with a phone call? This seems too much to me!

[muqawwee123]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

@Muzna

So this thread is derailing into a direction that was not intended.
The thank you card thread is in the wedding section. That stems from some recent weddings that I’ve attended.

This thread was launched to get a better understanding of what our culture dictates about saying “Thank you” for gifts received. I don’t think I did a very good job in my opening post. Let me give it another try…

In Pakistan what do you do when someone gives you a substantial gift? (i.e. of significant monetary value)
For example…in Chinese culture, I think…you’re supposed to decline the gift three times before you accept it reluctantly. In Japan it is not polite to open the gift in front of the giver.

What are the related rules for Pakistani culture?

In Pakistani culture, there are different rules for different people. Sometimes people take everything done for them as their born right like (things done by parents, spouse) and sometimes little things done by someone made us thankful and say ‘shukriya, nawazish, mehrbani, etc’. These all words show that there has been a tradition of being thankful and express that in words.

As you mentioned Chinese culture of rejecting gift before acceptance, isn’t that also present in Pakistani culture. Like when you give envelope to a friend / colleague on his valima, you come across with lines ‘yaar rehne do, aap aa gae mere liye ye boht hai’

[Muzna]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

In Pakistani culture, there are different rules for different people. Sometimes people take everything done for them as their born right like (things done by parents, spouse) and sometimes little things done by someone made us thankful and say 'shukriya, nawazish, mehrbani, etc'. These all words show that there has been a tradition of being thankful and express that in words.

As you mentioned Chinese culture of rejecting gift before acceptance, isn't that also present in Pakistani culture. Like when you give envelope to a friend / colleague on his valima, you come across with lines 'yaar rehne do, aap aa gae mere liye ye boht hai' :D

You've touched upon the thing that I want to understand.
There are different rules it seems.

I've recently had an experience where gifts, mainly of cash, were given to a couple where the husband is a recent arrival in Canada. Typically the couple was invited over for dinner and as they were leaving they were handed a card/envelope containing the gift. The couple did the standard, "Thank you. We had a lovely evening" formalities and left. They did nothing to follow up after the dinner or to thank the hosts for the monetary gift that they were given. This happened not only to me but to other family members as well.

Within a few months an occasion arose where I gave another such monetary gift. Again....same thing.....no acknowledgement and no thank you.

What gives?

I get it that you don't have to thank your parents or your spouse (though I don't agree with that either cuz that's not how I was raised) but anyone other than that deserves a thank you, no?

And for those that may say the culture in Pakistan is different, I have other cousins that were born and brought up there and they do not behave this way......so I'm left a bit perplexed.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

You've touched upon the thing that I want to understand. There are different rules it seems.

I've recently had an experience where gifts, mainly of cash, were given to a couple where the husband is a recent arrival in Canada. Typically the couple was invited over for dinner and as they were leaving they were handed a card/envelope containing the gift. The couple did the standard, "Thank you. We had a lovely evening" formalities and left. They did nothing to follow up after the dinner or to thank the hosts for the monetary gift that they were given. This happened not only to me but to other family members as well.

Within a few months an occasion arose where I gave another such monetary gift. Again....same thing.....no acknowledgement and no thank you.

What gives?

I get it that you don't have to thank your parents or your spouse (though I don't agree with that either cuz that's not how I was raised) but anyone other than that deserves a thank you, no?

And for those that may say the culture in Pakistan is different, I have other cousins that were born and brought up there and they do not behave this way......so I'm left a bit perplexed.

I personally observed that when people start taking care of us, we start taking them for granted. It may not be a cultural thing, but a psychological impact that is becoming a trend in most of the societies. May be its human nature.

Sometimes, people consider favors given to them as a norm (acceptable custom) and they think that just saying 'thank you' is all what is required. There are people who always want to be on receiving side and if you deny them a favour (even due to some good reason), they take it very negatively. But this should not be surprising as the Creator Himself called human-beings thankless (na-shukre).

On other side, there are filmi phrases like "There is nothing like 'sorry' and 'thanks' in friendship, etc". Some people are not expressive to show their gratitude, even they are burdened with the favour they receive.

To cut it short, its probably not something related to culture. Its individual psyche and upbringing that determine how a particular person will show gratitude. Almost all cultures and religions emphasize to show gratitude and be thankful like there is a hadees (if I'm not mistaken) which goes like 'He has not thanked Allah who has not thanked people'.

[Muzna]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

[quote]
To cut it short, its probably not something related to culture. Its individual psyche and upbringing that determine how a particular person will show gratitude. Almost all cultures and religions emphasize to show gratitude and be thankful like there is a hadees (if I'm not mistaken) which goes like 'He has not thanked Allah who has not thanked people'.
[/quote]

I have to agree with you here. There are too many examples of people from Pakistan that know very well when and how to show their gratitude for gifts and favours. I guess I was hoping that there might be an explanation for this person's behaviour because I'm having a tough time accepting that someone with a decent education and upbringing in a middle-class family and particularly someone that professes to value deen and imaan would know better.

[garamasala]

Re: Expressing Gratitude

On a side note, do you think that a text or email expression of gratitude can suffice for a dinner invite (not substantial gift) ? I sometimes feel a phone call when you've already met and caught up recently seems like a further imposition on host's time.