Exploitation of men, in Islam

Re: Exploitation of men, in Islam

one other is that if it’s obligatory on husbands to “support them from their means” (Qur’an 4:34) then it’s only right that wives have a like obligation which they should fulfil towards the household… doing the household chores perhaps

The latter clause is speculation that you made based on a Quranic text. If Allah wanted women to only do housework, then he would have said so. Also the ayah which asks women to stay in their homes is not directed towards the meaning that women should only do household chores. It just means that its better for a woman to stay at home when its not necessary that she wander around outside - most likely the reasons for this have to do with the way women of that time behaved culturally. It seems Makkah and Medina’s high class had some interesting behavioral patterns, which involved going out just for the sake of flirting, showing off, etc.

Code Red:

Islamically

1. Wife can demand separate lodging, it is their right. Husband has to oblige
2. they can demand help in household chore, either husband should provide servent or do it himself.
3. Men are supposed to shower wives with gifts, and when it is a time for payback women run out of options, becuase humble and simple creatures known as men, have very limited needs.

Pakistanis DO NOT have a good track record of following these things.

Please check out my new thread in Shor Sharaaba regarding the show - “Make Over”. What I saw there was somewhat sick. And its a very accurate description of how Pakistani husbands behave.

Men happily earn living for their family and parents and younger siblings. They never complain.

Gross lie. They complain every damn day - they bicker to all the ladies in their family, and when they’re really frustrated they yell at their wives - I’ve seen it in real life, and Life2 is full of those stories. :rolleyes:

Many girls just complete their degrees, to enhance their chance of catching good ‘rishtas’ so their hubby will provide them with all the luxuries of life and they will watch soap operas do gossips all their life

:k: Very good point - I’ve been noting it myself among girls. But most cases I have seen, its actually the guy and his family that insist the girl not work. If they didn’t insist this, then chances are she would work. So girls are getting degrees and then pressured by society to give up work when they have kids. There is nothing wrong with that, necessarily, since babies need attention and they’re a 24 hour job in itself. I plan to stay at home for a few years and raise the kids - but then I’d like to go back once they’re older.

Case in point - the last guy I was talking to about the possibility of marriage - he insisted that if he would marry me, then I would have to leave work for a number of years, and that he was still not comfy about me going back to work once the kids entered school. That they still need attention. :slight_smile: Needless to say, I’m happy he’s out of the picture now.

Regarding polygamy, you say :

Yet it is the most favorite topic of discussion among muslim ladies nowadays.

The cases of guys doing this seem to be a lot more than it seems, given that a lot of these polygamous marriages are hidden, and sometimes the wives don’t know until after the marriages have been done…after which point they decide to suck it up and live with it secretly…since its hard for a girl to find another rishtaa after a divorce. I’m surprised at how many people do it in the States - they just do it in secret and its not registered with the government. I met a guy whose father has one wife in the States and another in Pakistan. But the wife in the US is in the government records as being a divorcee…but they’re still married, since he still visits her every so often.

Its not polygamy that I personally am so against - its when its done without the permission of the wives and when its done chori chori chupke chupke in countries where its not permitted…you have to follow the law of the land, and that’s how Islam works.

In Pakistan (as many people are familiar with this country) Cases of rape of Young boys seriously out number the cases of rape of girls by a large margin. Yet no one is bothered to acknowledge the fact, let alone doing something about it.

Good point. Its something that people don’t like to talk about admittedly. Pachaas minute did a good show on run-away boys, and the boys were sitting on the show admitting that police molest them and that other boys in these gangs molest them. It was quite sick.

Sadly they never are grateful.

Because Pakistani women do not experience the liberties that Islam talks of, for the most part. I can say that my dad does a pretty good job of upholding the qualities that you listed. However, in our own desi community here, I have yet to find a guy like him, objectively speaking. Most emotionally abuse their wives, and if they don’t do that, they neglect them, and if they don’t do that, then its quite worse what they really do to their women. Its very sad.

Re: Exploitation of men, in Islam

Most women who read do realize the innumerous bounties and blessings Allah (SWT) has bestowed them with in Islam, alhamdulillah. Women (including myself) need to be thankful to Allah (SWT) and then to the men that make a difference in their lives. I don't see men ever being thankful to women for all the housework and child rearing they do?

Re: Exploitation of men, in Islam

^ indeed. I'm perfectly happy with Islam's rights to women - I think its more rights than what other religions give, and its more rights than even most cultures give.

But to say that all women should be thankful, when they're not being given these rights that they should be, is a bit out on the limb, and its Codey's way of getting girls riled up on the forums...which in turn shows how greater jerks men really are.

Re: Exploitation of men, in Islam

[quote]
Please don't fret over women being thankful or unthankful. I only feel like being thankful to Allah (SWT) for blessing me with a religion like Islam, alhamdulillah. I don't see why I would have to go around showing gratitude to males or anyone else for that matter. At max, I'd show gratitude to my parents and family
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I dont remember addressing "you" in particular rather it is all in general. Your taking it all personally is really uncalled for.

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Women also have plenty of responsibilities and duties, but they are of a different nature, such as childbirth and raising kids.
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I fail to see any rational explaination of very skewed distribution of responsibilities upon both genders in Islam.

PCG

*Pakistanis DO NOT have a good track record of following these things. *

I do not agree. I have only put those rights which women demand and they get mostly. Theere are many more which i will discuss later :p

Women in urban pakistan demand separate lodging and they get it as soon as it is financially feasable for husband.

Most of the men in urban pakistan either help their wives or provide servents

Same with gifts ...

Gross lie. They complain every damn day - they bicker to all the ladies in their family, and when they're really frustrated they yell at their wives - I've seen it in real life, and Life2 is full of those stories

That is a separate issue, you are mixing here marital problems. They are present everywhere. Women are equally bad when it comes to yelling and bickering.

[quote]
Its not polygamy that I personally am so against - its when its done without the permission of the wives and when its done chori chori chupke chupke in countries where its not permitted...you have to follow the law of the land, and that's how Islam works.**

All these chori chori chupke chupke and one here one there marriages constitute to the huge figure of 10 % out of total marriages. The point is that why you just ignore the rest of 90% monogamous (sp?) marriages and ignore the sane majority of men ?

[quote]

Because Pakistani women do not experience the liberties that Islam talks of, for the most part. I can say that my dad does a pretty good job of upholding the qualities that you listed. However, in our own desi community here, I have yet to find a guy like him, objectively speaking. Most emotionally abuse their wives, and if they don't do that, they neglect them, and if they don't do that, then its quite worse what they really do to their women. Its very sad.
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This is what i am talking about here. Contradiction at home and still whining all the time. In urban, moderatley educated Pakistani, women experience lot of liberties and almost zero financial obligation, its just the fact they dont want to admit it. If you are honest you already know the fact. Otherwise you may conduct a survey.

In marriage, wife is not an angle, nor the husband is a devil. Just for the sake of counter arguments

  • Women abuse husband both emotionally and financially
  • most women always ungrateful to their husband no matter how much luxuries they enjoy. They just pick one weakness in husband and continuously taunt them for that