Evil?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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My Philosophy of religions professor brought up the topic of evil and how God does not do much about it. I always believed that everything is a test and bad situations are a test and how we come out of it. But there are some examples that give me shivers. And sadly I start thinking to myself How Allah(swt) can let such evil happen, how can he allow it? there are things that are wrong and there are things that he could do something about as he is the All powerful, but he still allows it to happen? Why? people that died in tsunami? What was there test? were they tested on how to escape the tragedy?
Another incident I heard, was of a 13 year old girl in NY who got pregnant. She was too scared to tell her mother who was a hardcore christian, so the girl decided to hide it, and managed to dress up in a sense that noone could tell. She gave birth to her baby in her bedroom(SHOCKING HOW ITS POSSIBLE ALONE?) and then afraid that her mother will hear the baby cry,she threw her one day old baby out the window from her 3rd floor bedroom into the alley. They baby had broken ribs and neck and what not and died of cold after a few hours. Her boyfriend found out and he and the girl decided to put the child infront of a Church instead of in a dumpster. They got a “happy birthday gift bag” from her bedroom and put the baby in it and left it outside the church door. They later found out who the dead baby belonged to as there was a reciept in the gift bag.

This sounds so horrible, it gave me chills. It makes me depressed to think that these horrible things are happening and Allah(swt) is not doing much to stop it. Why not? If he knows the future, why is he letting these horrible things happen? If he knows the future, then why is he testing us? and why is he testing non-believers who he knows are going to go to hell regardless?
I hope I didn’t offend Anyone. I just want to get some answers. Thanks in advance.
and mods plz dont ban me lol simply delete the thread if you find it not appropriate.

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Re: Evil?

[39:62] Allah is the Creator of everything...

[32:7] Who made good everything that He has created...

Everything that God has made is created good. Allah (swt) has given us, the humans, ability to choose, i.e. freewill. When we exercise our freewill and choose to abandon the good then it results in evil. In other words, absence of good is evil. Quran has much to say about this and you could study it.

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But if Allah has made everything good then what about pedophiles? for example the incident of the girl I just gave, he created good but the girl for istance turned evil as per her free will, what was the one day old child's fault? why did Allah punish him for her sins?

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Re: Evil?

It is not the best scan but I will request you to read how Imam Sadiq (as) answered the question put to him [narration # 13];

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Re: Evil?

but If something is not allocated for someone but is for another one, isn't that selfish of god? isn't that cruelty for a child to have his life taken away for no reason? My question is, that Allah says he is testing us, sure he is, but about children? Is he testing an infant who cannot think for him/herself. Isnt that unfair. There are situations where his wiseness is questions?

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Another one coming to her senses..

uh-oh! I am staying out of it. Try your best to make your case, guppies and guppans!

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Re: Evil?

[31:12]..verily Allah is free of all wants, Worthy of all praise.

God is free from all needs and wants so He could never be selfish.

[31:9]..And He is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.

He is All-Wise.

[17:85] Of knowledge, it is only a little that is communicated to you.

We have very limited knowledge if any.

[2:28]....ye were without life, and He gave you life; then will He cause you to die, and will again bring you to life; and again to Him will ye return.

He is the owner of our life and He knows when to take it back.

[2:155] Verily, We shall put you to test with some fear, and hunger, and with some loss of wealth, lives, and offsprings. And (O Muhammad) convey good tidings to those who are patient, who say, when inflicted by hardship, "Verily we are of God and verily to Him shall we return;" upon them is the blessings of Allah and His mercy.

Life is a test.

[2:286] On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear.

With no soul taking a burden more than it can bear.

[4:19] It may be that you dislike a thing and God brings about through it a great deal of good.

Sometime there is good behind suffering and pain. We judge things according to our own limited and relative knowledge.

[6:43] When the suffering reached them from us, why then did they not learn humility?

There are great lessons behind all these sufferings and pains that surround us in this world.

[36:54] Then on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least and you shall but be repaid the needs of your past deeds.

Ultimately it is the day of judgement that we are heading towards and it is God's promise that no soul shall be wrong on that day.

[99:7] So. he who has done an atom's weight of good shall see it

Those who suffered in this life will be rewarded by higher and greater prestige and honor.

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Re: Evil?

children are not tested

if you feel death is a cruelty then this belief will naturally baffle you as its not a true statement

if you are here it means you have been given life and given assurance of death

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Re: Evil?


No I dont think death is a cruelty, its natural and assured obv. My question was that death at such a young age, that too a cruel one, to someone who doesnt desrve it. Surely i'm, and you are given a chance, why not a child? is life a test really, cause if it is then were not given a fair chance?

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Re: Evil?

I am going to try to answer this from a religious point of view since you seem disturbed about the idea of God in Islam. The very first condition of your faith is to believe in one God and his messenger, then you must believe in the judgement day, the hereafter, shaitan, etc etc. Then there’s this idea of free will. God gave his makhlooq free will to make their own decisions whether they make good ones or bad ones is up to us. You must also believe that this Duniya is NOT the end of everything, it is the hereafter that is your ultimate destination. So clearly, God lets you be your own boss for as long as you are on this earth. Once the judgement day comes, your ultimate fate is decided based on your actions here. Technically, what we have here on earth is not forever so we can say God is just because he will reward those who suffered due to others’ actions greatly and punish those who harmed his makhlooq.

Think of it like a game and you are the maker of it. You can add, delete, change, move the characters and the settings of the game. The characters in the game aren’t real and you know it’s not real. The characters inside that game will never know what’s outside of their designed world. When your character dies in the game, it doesn’t really die. You can give it as many lives as you’d like. Think of God as being the master programmer of our world and the entire universe. I hope this helps you out..

P.S. To everyone else, don’t get your hopes up of making a believer out of me. :chai:

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^ but then again if this is just a game to god, then isnt it still cruel of god to let the characters do horrible stuff to each other? were not just some mere toys, we have emotions, we feel pain, we have desires. And then the question leads on to, why does god expect so much from us then? at times he puts his"CHARACTER TOYS" in situations where theres no win. wow. and my bigger fear right now is gettig points from the mod or a ban. lol

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Right but it's God who created YOU. Had it not been for him, you wouldn't even be here. God didn't create mankind for mankind, he created mankind for Him. How is it cruel when he can give you as many lives as he wants? Pain is temporary and so are our lives on this planet. Your ultimate destination is in the hereafter. God has all the power, he is capable of doing ANYTHING. Why does it matter what he does? What should matter to you as a believer is that you don't get on his bad side. If you truly believe in his message through the many messengers he has sent down to us, then you'd do as God commands you or you will end up in hell. That's really all there's to it.. Now you may want to ask yourself is it even possible for an entity like this to exist. This is called faith, you either have it or you don't!

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^ I know he exists, I'm not doubting his existance, and I know he is all powerful. I'm just question his power, or his use of power. I'm not question his basics, I'm questioning what he does, or allows people to do. If he is all powerful why is he allowing cruelty? because "TEST" that hes putting us through isn't fair. Were not given equal chances. He's testing people that he said will go to hell regardless(Non-believers). WHY? He's testing people that don't have the capability to think for themselves(kids). His ruling/power sometimes seems cruel/evil/unfair to me. Maybe his wiseness isn't that wise? Maybe when he made human knd he didnt put as much thought into what monsters he created?

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You can't question his power if you don't understand what it is. Our pain and problems are a very minute issue for him. He gave you freewill and told you what's expected of you. Mankind has gone astray from his path, forgot about God, committed crimes, hurt others, etc etc. God will punish those who didn't listen to him. God will reward those who did listen and those who never got a chance to live their lives. Remember this is not your ultimate destination. Those who die young or get killed are not tested, they simply get in the way of others' life. Let's say God is watching all of this from the heavens, he doesn't intervene but keeps an account for who's doing what. Also, remember God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. We are not his only creation, he has all the worlds to manage. Furthermore, God doesn't claim to look after you, you do what you do here and pray to him for your wants and needs. God doesn't intervene, he is simply watching until the day of judgment.

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Re: Evil?

First of all, you don’t know if non-believers will go to hell or not, so try to stay away from saying that. Islam teaches pluralism.

http://www.al-islam.org/religiouspluralism/
Second, I think a more appropriate title would be suffering or hardship.. Obviously evil exists, Allah (swt) has given us freewill, which is what he is testing us with.

Imam Jaffar (as) had said that those who are loved by Allah (swt) are drowned with hardships. Just look at the lives of the Prophets, Nabi Isa (as), Rasoolallah (saw), Nabi Ayyub (as). It’s the ultimate test, if we remain loyal to Him while being put under such hardships.

Hardships don’t necessarily mean negativity.. Some lead to the betterment of man and life.

[Shakir 23:62] And We do not lay on any soul a burden except to the extent of its ability, and with Us is a book which speaks the truth, and they shall not be dealt with unjustly.

We’re all given equal chances. We all start out with the same slate, it depends on our actions whether the slate stays white or whether with each sin it becomes black. Some may have tests that are visible to our own eyes, but people who seem to have less troubles than others doesn’t mean he’s not testing them..

Questions like these often lead to unhappy endings. These very deep and confusing discussions/debates are ok to an extent. But the bolded part of your post is the reason why in many ahadith Prophets and Imams would say too many knowledge is dangerous, that such issues lead to doubt and uncertainty. He knows what the being he has created is capable of, it’s whether you use your freewill to be a Yazid or a Hussain. Also, kids may have issues, but this is not the permanent world. Children will not go to hell.

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Re: Evil?

Okay this is like saying parents know that their kids could be run over by a car but they're still allowing cars on the road, they should do something about it and ban all vehicles from the road. Or that authorities know that people get into road accidents, they can prevent all the deaths by not allowing people to drive in the first place.

No. It doesn't work that way. Cars are not evil, they were made with good intentions for good purpose. Even weapons were made for self-defense not for murder. Parents have made it clear to their kids what to do and what not to do. Authorities have rules in place that drivers are supposed to abide by. Now if someone gets into accident, the peson who made the car isn't to be blamed. You break the rules, you pay, unfortunately sometimes with your life.

The 13 year old who got pregnant... did Allah swt not warn us not to have pre-marital sex? Ok let's assume she doesn't believe in the word of God but clearly her parents had the same rule for her. If she hadn't broken this rule, none of the horrible things that followed would have happened. She acted upon her freewill and CHOSE to make the mistakes that she did. If Allah swt intervenes all the time in our decisions, that wouldn't be freewill, would it? I'm sitting beside a window right now, I could choose to jump from the window and take my life right now... Allah swt has already warned me that suicide is haram. If I still choose to take my life, I am fully responsible.. not the window, not Allah swt, not anyone else.

And like Jafri said, as horrible as the fate of the baby seems in this duniya, his fate in akhirah is *guaranteed *to be a beautiful one. If I'm not mistaken, people who die an unjust death (even a woman who dies during childbirth) are considered shaheed, right? And shuh'da will hold a higher rank and honour in the hereafter. Our destiny in this duniya shouldn't be given more importance than our fate in the akhirah.

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Re: Evil?

Peace lil_Ash,

keeping aside the incidents you mentioned above, Shaitaan (evil) was granted permission to misguide us till the Day of Judgment and the evil will try its best to misguiding us.

We have choices either to select good for us or bad. Sometime we do good things for our best interest but that turns out into bad without realizing that we are doing bad. Like in an exam hall, we do cheating, hence cheating will be help us to gain higher marks but if the examiner caught us red-handed it will turns into bad, resulting as fail in exam. We chosen ‘cheating’ as our choice which seems good for us and its only related to us nor for anybody else but turned into bad, perhaps the examiner counted it as a bad choice from us.

Another thing if I want to be an engineer then definitely I’ll choose engineering subject. Why would I choose engineeing subject instead of medcial? To know that which subject is correct and right for engineering. This is the first choice to select the correct and right subject. Now If and going to attend the engineering classes. Teachers of engineers will teach me engineering and if I liked (I mean if I can learn/do engineering) I’ll continue otherwise I’ll leave it by choosing any other subject and that is my second choice. Same as non-Muslims (as u mentioned non-Muslims in ur post) have many choices to learn about religion either it is correct and right religion or not and its upto him/her whether he/she continue practicing it or not b’coz he/she having both choices, good and bad.

If a non-Muslim chnose not to practicing it, it doesn’t mean that is his/her bad-choice. He/she as per his/her mind chosen what is good for him/her and that is his/her good choice but in view of Muslims that is a bad
choice.

Offtopic reply:

You said ‘don’t ban me simply delete the thread’, maybe banning is good idea and that could be a good choice but my good choice can turns into bad (in view of my CM) then surely i’m dead :eek: :slight_smile:

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Re: Evil?

Are you seriously comapring parents with god? because as far as I know Allah(swt) is the all powerful and all knowing. he knows better and further than a parent would. He knows all the possibilities, he knows of the evil iin a persons head, yet he allows it to effect an innocent with it.
You decide to commit suicide your loss, you die, you go to hell. the girl decided to have pre-marital sex, she should burn in hell and be punished. why her infant baby? so basically a life was given and taken to set an example?

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Re: Evil?

You completely missed the point. I wasn't saying parents are God, I used a simplified example to get my point across.

And did you read my last paragraph about those who die an unjust death? Did I say the baby should be punished or died to set an example or whatever?

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Re: Evil?

Allah tests us and test one creation (human or whatever) from another of his creation, and thus whatever we do, see, hear or experience, be they good, evil, misery, bliss, injustice, justice, wealth, poverty, hunger, plenty, pain, pleasure, suffering, enjoyment, etc .. they are part of our test.

Worldly life has very little value in human life compared to eventual life. Suffering we go through in this world, or suffering mentioned of little girl thrown after birth or people gone through in Tsunami, or earthquake, or any calamity we think of, it represents suffering of moments. We do not even know that people who got caught in those calamities, what they felt and how much they suffered, especially if they are not there to tell their experiences ... as only Allah knows their reality and reality of their sufferings, but whatever we saw, experiences, or heard, that becomes part of our test (calamities what others fall into become test of those who saw, heard, or experienced it).