Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

[Captain1]

There is a separate thread which yo_wasim created, his intention was to criticise mainly Hanafi followers but ended up critising TJs (Tableeghi Jamaat).

This thread is to exchange the information on TJs. I have respect for the TJs as they take time out of their lives and do what they believe is Sunnah way of preaching however wrong/bad approach they have.

Disclaimer: I was with TJs for sometimes, I have been around them, I have lived with them as neighbors and I have met them in masajid so my comments are not specific to a specific location of TJs but in general.

The Goods:

1. I appreciate them bringing people to masajid and many people have become good ‘namazi’.
2. They visit people in their neighborhood. They are very nice and humble people in general.
3. They sometimes leave all their businesses/jobs/life-activities for 3 days, 40 days, 4 months or an year and go out to distant places for what they believe Prophet PBUH did and what Sahaba karaam RA did. All this time they are focussed on the ‘dawa’, no business intention, no money-making on the side… just dawa (to Muslims).
4. They encourage the members for increasing zikr-al-Allah, increasing nawafil, pray with jamaata etc.

These are all really good things in them, there must be more which I am unaware of and I might have skipped.

The Bads:

1. They use book which contains several weak ahadiths which its readers and listeners are not aware of, their justification is that it is allowed to use weak ahadith for ‘fadhail’ and that the book does not contain fiqhi issues.
2. They visit Muslims (mainly Sunnis, from what I have seen they avoid visiting Shia fellows).
3. There is no “knowledgeable” person in jamaat, there are ameers who probably learnt the jamaat process after spending 1 year or more with jamaat who would know about the rules of jamaat etc.
4. From what I remember, they dropped section on fadhail of darood on Prophet PBUH after there was a famous (rather notorious) incident in jamaat after the investment scams (Samad, Dadabhoy etc) and there was a split there-in.
5. They have avoided politics completely which is very essential for an “Islamic” party, thus creating a big void and making people vote (or completely abstain from voting) for other criminal parties like MQM, ML, PPP, JI, JUI etc. [Pakistan specific issue]
6. I haven’t seen any other teaching/institution from TJ to teach its members, members “may” learn on their own or just readup fadhail-e-amaal.
7. When they gather after a prayer for “lecture” and try to make a jamaat they tell people to make an intention (for writing purposes) even if you tell them in face that you really aren’t interested, they’ll still tell you to fake an intention (or rather lie an intention) just for writing it so they can catch you after sometime for the “intention”… now that is wrong, IMO.
8. Many of followers set bad example when not in jamaat, which tells of its lack of teaching.
9. They will be late for jamaat (for salaat) but they don’t want to miss the gather after salaat… now what is more important?

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What goods or bads do you find in them? Please behave when you respond, no name calling, no insulting. Thanks in advance.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

1. http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00003651.aspx
   http://www.sunnipath.com/resources/Questions/qa00002057.aspx

2. Which Muslims do you see out there visiting one another? Do you see them visiting Shias too? We got to visit each other to make our iman stronger then and only then we are able to visit the non-muslims.

3. Knowledge comes from experience, there is always elders in jamaats.

4. Come on man, why point out that when the Jamaat is not only focused in India or Pakistan, it is spread out through out the world.

5. Politics? Islam doesn’t need politics. Islam has everything within it.

6. TJ is a movement, they have various schools. Maybe you haven’t seen doesn’t mean there arent.

7. Fake intention? I never heard of that, they just say just make an intention that’s all. After all that intention makes you wanna go. If you don’t get up from your bed you’re not going anywhere.

8. Not many, there are bad in every group. Do not judge the book by its cover.

9. Who are they? I have seen them talking about being early for salaat.. again do not assume…

Bro , this topic is so silly, not even funny.

[yo_wasim]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

[quote]

There is a separate thread which yo_wasim created, his intention was to criticise mainly Hanafi followers but ended up critising TJs (Tableeghi Jamaat).

[/quote]

Infact i did not start with TJs get that straight captain. Go check out my posts there except for 3 where it was necessary, whereas TJs are hanafies.Second thing, I dont criticize the followers of Hanafies if they want to follow exactly what Abu Hanifa has taught. Not slander him. The followers do taqlid and Scholars they not only innovate but commit shirk. Its available in there written material.

[quote]

This thread is to exchange the information on TJs. I have respect for the TJs as they take time out of their lives and do what they believe is Sunnah way of preaching however wrong/bad approach they have.

[/quote]

I have quoted the same in my own thread, do care to strain your eyes. I agree with there intention of Dawah, but not ideology.

[quote]
Disclaimer: I was with TJs for sometimes, I have been around them, I have lived with them as neighbors and I have met them in masajid so my comments are not specific to a specific location of TJs but in general
[/quote]
.
Good for you if you were associated with them.

[quote]

***The Goods:
1. I appreciate them bringing people to masajid and many people have become good 'namazi'.
2. They visit people in their neighborhood. They are very nice and humble people in general.
3. They sometimes leave all their businesses/jobs/life-activities for 3 days, 40 days, 4 months or an year and go out to distant places for what they believe Prophet PBUH did and what Sahaba karaam RA did. All this time they are focussed on the 'dawa', no business intention, no money-making on the side.... just dawa (to Muslims).
5. They encourage the members for increasing zikr-al-Allah, increasing nawafil, pray with jamaata etc.
*
[/quote]

I agreed with this, I repeat again. But ask the scholars of TJs and Deobandis how many of them follow Abu Hanifa. They dont even follow Abu Hanifa neither, Prophet may peace and blessign of Allaah be upon him. They follow there own scholars. Period.

[quote]

***The Bads:
**1. They use book which contains several weak ahadiths which its readers and listeners are not aware of, their justification is that it is allowed to use weak ahadith for 'fadhail' and that the book does not contain fiqhi issues.*
2. They visit Muslims (mainly Sunnis, from what I have seen they avoid visiting Shia fellows).
3. There is no "knowledgeable" person in jamaat, there are ameers who probably learnt the jamaat process after spending 1 year or more with jamaat who would know about the rules of jamaat etc.
4. From what I remember, they dropped section on fadhail of darood on Prophet PBUH after there was a famous (rather notorious) incident in jamaat after the investment scams (Samad, Dadabhoy etc) and there was a split there-in.
5. They have avoided politics completely which is very essential for an "Islamic" party, thus creating a big void and making people vote (or completely abstain from voting) for other criminal parties like MQM, ML, PPP, JI, JUI etc. [Pakistan specific issue]
6. I haven't seen any other teaching/institution from TJ to teach its members, members "may" learn on their own or just readup fadhail-e-amaal.
7. When they gather after a prayer for "lecture" and try to make a jamaat they tell people to make an intention (for writing purposes) even if you tell them in face that you really aren't interested, they'll still tell you to fake an intention (or rather lie an intention) just for writing it so they can catch you after sometime for the "intention"..... now that is wrong, IMO.
8. Many of followers set bad example when not in jamaat, which tells of its lack of teaching.
9. They will be late for jamaat (for salaat) but they don't want to miss the gather after salaat... now what is more important?
**
[/quote]

Keywords above in blue. I would agree if they were only weak hadith. Captain1, but they are comments which is of complete shirk. Shirk and only shirk.
Like, they want to sit down for Kashf, and they are specific levels and once you have achieved this then you get to see Prophet Mohamed may peace and blessign of Allaah be upon him. They are sayings regarding Prophet coming down and learning Urdu. They are more of derogatory, comments but forget it.
Overall, **weak hadith!!!! when in Fazail e Quran, Moulana writes Imam Shafie read the whole Quran 60 times in a day.
Imam Hanifi 61 times in a day. Tell me what due you mean by hadith. Then we can talk about weak and strong hadith.
Its better i leave it here. **

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[quote]

What goods or bads do you find in them? Please behave when you respond, no name calling, no insulting.

[/quote]

Tell me when I have done any name callign or insult. If i am wrong prove me wrong with some evidence. I am calling towards a straight path towards the truth. Why are people so paranoid to know about the truth.
Overall tell me which book is a better book then the Quran for someone to be guided towards a straight path.
Hadith, the wordings of our dear Prophet salaAllahiwalahiwasalam.

[yo_wasim]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

Do prove me wrong with some authenticity. Then let us talk upon common base of knowledge. Not emotions, but with proofs. Not which Jamaat is the best, but which Jamaat is with the truth.
Thats what Allaah, wants the truth.

[Captain1]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

@cricketplaya

2. Which Muslims do you see out there visiting one another? Do you see them visiting Shias too? We got to visit each other to make our iman stronger then and only then we are able to visit the non-muslims.

I am friends with many Muslims, we visit each other, many organize "halaqas" for education etc.

[quote]
3. Knowledge comes from experience, there is always elders in jamaats.
[/quote]
Not all knowledge comes from experience, there is knowledge which only comes from reading.

[quote]
4. Come on man, why point out that when the Jamaat is not only focused in India or Pakistan, it is spread out through out the world.
[/quote]

They must still have some agenda towards the success of Muslims as "nation" not just individual level.

[quote]
5. Politics? Islam doesn't need politics. Islam has everything within it.
[/quote]
Islam doesn't need politics? Are you one of those Muslims who want a secular government?

[quote]
6. TJ is a movement, they have various schools. Maybe you haven't seen doesn't mean there arent.
[/quote]
May be there, but are they mainly FOR TJ members?

[quote]
7. Fake intention? I never heard of that, they just say just make an intention that's all. After all that intention makes you wanna go. If you don't get up from your bed you're not going anywhere.
[/quote]

Long story short, whenever I sat with them for their weekly sitting after Maghrib they will ask me to "naam likhwa do" for intention, I told them that I donot have any intention they say "koi baat nahi, aisay hee likhwa do, sawab milay ga".... they wouldn't call it fake intention.

[quote]
8. Not many, there are bad in every group. Do not judge the book by its cover.
[/quote]
Should we also overlook "The Goods" too then? Forget this part :)

[quote]
9. Who are they? I have seen them talking about being early for salaat.. again do not assume...
[/quote]
You will see them rushing to masjid when you are returning from jamaat/salaat to join the after-salat-gathering. Anyway, lets forget this one too.

[quote]
Bro , this topic is so silly, not even funny.
[/quote]
May be you shouldn't have participated then :)

[Captain1]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

@yo_wasim

Tell me when I have done any name callign or insult.

It wasn't directed to you specifically, but everyone who wants to participate.

[yo_wasim]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

I promise on Allaah, my only Interest is for the unity of Muslims and call towards the truth.

[teaser]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

Captain the things you mentioned in your post (Bad ones) are true but not to every Jamaat. I have met and sat with quite few Jamaat’s but not all of them has those bad things. I agree about the good things and probably there are more good things. Anyway…

1. I am not aware of weak ahadith but I have seen some Jamaat using books some using their own experience and knowledge. Maybe I never noticed it to this extent since I try to understand what exactly they are saying. My mind always wonders about instead of paying attention to what is being said. Maybe satan has more control over me. I am a very weak person.

2. I seldom participated in Jamaat when I was in Pakistan. Here in USA I have noticed they visit only Muslims but never paid attention if the visit is specific to Sunni or Shia or any other sect. In my opinion both places have 1 thing in common that is Muslims not practicing Islam thus one needs to start from him/her or from their own home. No wonder we blame Muslims for not following Islam the right way and setting up bad examples which lead non-Muslims to believe that actually Islam is not right which of course is not the case.I think this point should not be considered bad BECAUSE we as Muslims are not practicing our true religion. Its the action that will make non-Muslim or non-Sunni or non-Shia to attract to your beliefs not whats in your heart. The intention of Jamaat is to bring Muslims to the Mosque and to the dawa of Islam. They do visit non-Muslims as well and I think its because of Jamaat we see today Islam reaching every corner of the world. I think it really depends on each and every Jamaat that goes out and visit.

3. This is true but not with every Jamaat. I have seen knowledgeable with many Jamaats.

4. Not sure about this since I am not aware of this. Maybe I need to do more reading or maybe you could point me to some where I can find more info on this?

5. I disagree with this. If they have avoided politics no wonder they are so successful. I am not saying politics should not be part of Islam but what I am seeing here or understanding the reason they left out politics because the main concept here is to spread Islam and make Muslims aware of what will happen to them on the day of judgment if they don’t pray or follow Islam the right way.

6. I agree with you here. But than I have also seen/noticed when they go out to invite others to join or come to pray most of the time they stress on the importance of praying, doing good deeds and following the right path of Muhammad :saw:. Also Captain sahib you are contradicting yourself here. See your post below

@Captain1

Not all knowledge comes from experience, there is knowledge which only comes from reading.

7. I have notice this too but I never thought about it this way that they are making you to fake it or lie. Just yesterday I was late for Magrib and I was passing by the Mosque so I thought I should pray in the Mosque instead of heading home. So when I entered the Mosque there was a Jamaat going. After I prayed Magrib I sat down to listen the lecture and when the lecture was over they asked everyone to make intention and one of the guy started writing names. At first only 2 or maybe 3 people stood up and gave their name than the lecturer repeated “brothers this is just to make intention to go it does not mean you have to go and when the time come and if you are free than try to go otherwise you don’t have to.” I see it with a different view. I think its good to make intention to join the Jamaat so that it stays in your mind and you try to free up some time so you can join in. Its like setting up goals what you will be doing next. As they say half of the work is done if you make good intention and the rest Allah :swt: will help you.

8. I have never gone out with a Jamaat so I can’t really comment on this. I am planning to just waiting for the right time (see how the intention comes in to play? )

9. This could be a rare case. When you say “they” do you mean the people who are actually in the Jamaat or the listeners?

[cricketplaya]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

Wasim bhai, im starting to love you salafis, every thread you just want to spark a debate. Typical salafi.

[yo_wasim]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

@cricketplaya

Wasim bhai, im starting to love you salafis, every thread you just want to spark a debate. Typical salafi.

I will go in millions of threads and speak about the truth against falsehood and agains heretics. Inshallaah, i will do it for the sake of Allaah.
If i am talking about falsehood prove it to me from Quran and Hadith.

[cricketplaya]

Re: Everthing you want to vent against/ say for TJs

@yo_wasim

I will go in millions of threads and speak about the truth against falsehood and agains heretics. Inshallaah, i will do it for the sake of Allaah. If i am talking about falsehood prove it to me from Quran and Hadith.

Refer to my signature. :)