European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Salaam to everyone,

I’m new to this forum in writing but I’ve been browsing this site for quite some time and really like a lot of what I’ve been reading. I’m a gori who grew up in France but now lives in the US and I am in a relationship with an American-born Pakistani man for about 2 years now. It’s been quite an experience to say the least but we really love each other and have been working really hard to make it through the rough patches that come along the way. I’ve grown up Catholic and since meeting him have read the Quran, given up eating pork, fast with him during Ramadan, wake him up for Fajr, have learned to cook a lot of Desi food, have taken Urdu classes, and just came back from a trip to India that my institution provided that I chose in order to get a deeper understanding of Desi culture (I realize it’s not Pakistan, but that wasn’t an option unfortunately). He has also started taking French classes and has gotten pretty good at it, he’s really kind-hearted and well brought up.

He was abroad for about a year, half of which he spent in Europe and the other half which he spent in Asia, and I spent a semester in Europe while he was there as well and we traveled all around and he met a lot of my family in France and other countries. I also went to visit him in Asia the following semester. The one big obstacle that has presented itself is that in between his two semesters, he decided to tell his family about our relationship and how he wanted me to be the girl he marries, which didn’t go over so well. I met his family in their home around that time and they were very kind to me, his mom seemed skeptical but warmed up to me pretty fast and we got along well. While he was away in Asia last Spring, his mother and I spoke through email a decent amount and she invited me to come stay with her and his family for a few days to learn more about their culture, so I did and I got to know her a little better. I met her a few more times since then but she and the rest of his immediate family have been very difficult to deal with sometimes.

I’m always very conservative in how I dress around them and very polite, asking questions about how they do things, etc… They seem very upset with his choice and I always hear about how he’s been arguing with them about us when he goes home and how he says they’re being judgmental and should be more open minded. His family has even come up to his house (a 3 hour drive away) unexpectedly to try and entice him to come home and leave the relationship, yet when she’s around me she’s very nice and she’s told him that she likes me a lot but that she’s just concerned about the cultural differences. I’ve sent her hand written thank you notes every time I go over there, and asked her if I could bring anything back that she might need from India. I brought her back a beautiful prayer scroll from India. I really like his family a lot, and coming from a close knit European family, we have a lot more in common than meets the eye, but they only see my skin color and base their decisions off of that. My family has been hard to deal with as well but they like him a lot, they’re just concerned about cultural differences.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what I or we should to do in order to ease the situation? How can I show his mother that I’m not trying to take her son away from his culture or religion but only solidify these things in him already and just be a part of them? We’ve considered both talking to them in their home directly in person about our relationship and answering any of their questions directly. It’s just been difficult to carry on in a relationship when there are so many bumps that I wish I could smooth out for everyone.

Also, one of their family members just passed away very recently (Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’un), and I was wondering if it would be appropriate for me to send a brief sympathy card to his mom/family letting them know they are in my prayers?

Thanks for your imput and thoughts on this, any advice would be very much appreciate!!

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

of course u shd send somthg ... :@:

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

First of Welcome to the Forum. I am not a regular poster of Life1 but here goes.

You ve learnt to deal with things the Religious way and the Cultural way, To me What you have done so far couldnt have been done better. I personally think you should stay focused as your intentions are positive, the reason i say this is because usually desi families are under teh impression that once their child is married ..he forgets about his family but you have shown from your post that you like the family, you wish to get to know them, and want to stay in touch and in return they like you too, and in time they will accept you for who you are and once they realise that you wont take their child away from them. So dont really worry cos everything you are doing for their happiness is great, couldnt be better.

Secondly, they should not have an issue with skin colour, because Islam refutes this as everyone is equal.

Lastly, do not mind me but i want to ask, you mentioned you learnt to keep fast, pray etc etc, Are you Muslim since you didnt mention and you rather mentioned being gori.. I know France is Full of Muslims, If they have an issue to not like you, this can be the only one reason If you are not. If you are then..I say give them time, and like you said, both of you go directly and answer all their questions to clear thier minds.

Good Luck :)

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Well said by our brothrrr....FBI :)

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Seems like ur trying ur hardest (not a small thing travelling to India).. stay positive.. 9 times out of 10 in these situations the families do come round and a few years down the line they'll prob even be saying 'we're so glad he married GoriGirl :D' .. as long as ur other half stays firm I don't think u'll have too much to worry about..

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

I've seen a lot of Pakistani-White marriages in my short life, and, honestly, the best way for you to gain acceptance from his family will be to learn the language his family speaks and completely immerse yourself in his culture, that will solve most of your problems(and the problems they have with you) including them judging you based off the colour of your skin. Culture and language are really important for Pakistanis, and, unfortunately, for some it's even more important than religion.

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice…

So much hard work and dedication deserves respect :k:

Btw you are already doing wayyyyyyyyyy better than a lot of Pakistani girls :stuck_out_tongue:

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Gori, you're doing great.

In these situations, it takes time to create a place in peoples' hearts. Remember, they're older...set in their ways and you were not part of their plan for their son. It will take a lot of getting used to for a family that lives in Pakistan and understanding.

Once you're married, it will get better because his family will realize you are his choice and they need to make the most of it. Once you have children....................................things will be a lot better as you will be the mother of their grandchildren. :)

Keep your chin up, do not be discouraged and most of all...do NOT give up!

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

looks like you love him a lot and hopefully he loves you enough to stand up for you. I think you'll be alright as long as you respect his culture/family and he respects you and your culture.

Eid is coming up right? make sure you impress them then with your islamic knowledge and if you wear traditional pakistani clothes, they will respect that and see that you seriously do love their son :)

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Thanks for the supportive words everyone! I've been really trying to be the best that I can be during the rough patches, but it's definitely trying on my patience at times.

FBI, I'm actually Catholic, not Muslim, but I learned a lot about Islam in these past two years and have indeed learned to keep fast during Ramadan with him. There are a lot of Muslims in France though so it could have been possible :)

I just sent his mother a sympathy card in the mail yesterday so hopefully she will get it and it will ease their pain a little.

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Not imposing or forcing you or anything but have you considered Accepting Islam as your religion. Why I say this is because In Islam, when it comes to Marriage, amongst a couple of things, Religion is given the priority above all that he/she should be muslim. And His parents being Pakistani and I myself a Pakistani, I would say from MY point of view that His parents May have not openly asked you to take up Islam as your religion and are waiting for you to bring up this Issue. I understand that You are keeping Fasts with him and learnt alot about Islam, But In Islam we believe that They are no good to you no matter how great the deed if one isnt Muslim. Hence, If you were to consider Islam as your religion Am sure this would be the 'deal maker' in your relationship with him and the happiness of the parents. Once one accepts Islam that keeping a Fast would be rewarding and your intentions for the future will always be possitive and this will have an affect on not just you but everyone.

ps. This is my view incase someone comes out bashing at me :)

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

i was faced with the thought of converting for a muslim friend i was very close to. but i had actually learned about islam way before meeting him and after getting very in depth in understanding each verse in the quran, i realized that i couldn't accept some of the verses and couldn't follow them

i do love lots of things about it but the few things i don't agree with are major for me. it would mean i would have to change completely for him and become an entirely different person than who i really was. does it mean that a person cares when that person's changing me completely? i love some things about islamic culture but i wasn't going to convert/revert. in order to convert/revert to a religion, i have to love it on my own without outside influences like 'love'. for nonmuslims religion, traditions,culture were also very important.

for gorigirl, christianity and islam are both abrahamic religions so some things are similar. it's your decision whether you want to convert/revert to islam, whatever you think would make things easier for your relationship with this man.

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

btw, in Islam a muslim man can marry a christian woman without her converting/reverting. only christian women not christian men. I remember reading something about that. am i right FBI?

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Yup thats right. Muslim men can marry christian or Jewish women but muslim women cannot do the same. for a religion that boasts equality, I find it one of the most hypocritical ideologies known to mankind.

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice…

  1. Islam *does *preach equality between man and woman, but does not hold them to be identical. Both are very different.

  2. A Muslim man cannot marry any random Christan/Jewish women - they have to be chaste (“Lawful unto you in marriage… are… chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time…” - Quran 5:5).

  3. An excellent link highlighing some reasons why a marriage between a Muslim woman and a non-Muslim man may not be successful: LINK

A quick excerpt:


Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

Salaam everyone,

I'm back to ask you all for advice again really quickly with an update. So as the gorigirl, things did improve with his mother and I, she asks about me and sent me a Thank You card in the mail after I sent the sympathy card. However, the man I am in a relationship with has been very stressed about school, his job plans after graduation, and his family's financial situation and is scared that his Paki lifestyle is too hard on me and says he hates to see me hurt. He has pulled back away from the relationship slightly although it is obvious he still cares about it a lot and says he loves me but needed some time to not burden me with his stresses but take them on on his own.

After this, he agreed to try and make things work and has really put forth a lot of effort, despite the stress I see him under. I have let him lead the way, wanting to give him as much space as possible but still letting him know I'm here. He is on a study trip about 4 hours away for the week and is very stressed since it proves for busy days and little down time. Our 2 year anniversary is on Saturday, the one day he has completely free in his program, and I was wondering if I should pay him a surprise visit. Should I go there for the day and surprise him with a gift and something fun to do or should I not? I feel like going up there could either show my dedication and how much I care about him and his life, or it could push him away completely. Does anyone have any suggestions? It just seems so trivial considering we've traveled the world for and with each other.

Thanks so much!

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

gorigirl you should realize most pakistani mother in laws hate their daughter in law. the rare occasion when they like and love and support their daughter in law is when she's either related to the family (cousin marriage) or when the mother hand picked the girl herself. It's like a power struggle they feel to have whenever their son chooses his own girl. MY mom is not pakistani and I saw first hand even when my grandmother came around to accepting things she still had her moments of battling or causing problems for god knows what reason. There's no real way to comfort crazy (most paki mothers are crazy when it comes to their sons) thoughts all you can do is continue to be respectful and modest in her eyes, and give her lots of love and care. eventually once children show up she'll relax a bit more but let it be known she may never fully come around. It's something you have to seriously consider, also don't think that if you were pakistani things would be different they just wouldn't be as bad but as long as she didn't pick you she's just gonna hate you for a long time.

Re: European Gori and American-born Paki Advice....

gorigirl.... have patience and keep on working towards ur relationship... most mothers in Pakistani cultures are not comfortable with their choosing their own girl (even if she is the same religion, same caste, same culture etc etc)... but eventually they have to agree if their sons remain persistent....