EU Enlargement - The future of Global politics?

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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I will consider this my “Custer’s last stand”. Here’s to hoping that people can carry out an intellectual conversation about political issues that do not involve insulting people.

Anyway i pose a rather simple question. Do you think the model prescribed by the EU - ie enlargement - will be the face of the world in the days to come. Nationalism and the concept of the Nation state is passe. It is no longer relevant and hasnt been for nearly 2 decades.

Now if you all believe integration into large entities that eliminate the concept of the nation state is the future, what do you feel with happen to nationalism and to a larger extent the geo-political realities that governs todays multilateral system.

I personally believe the EU enlargement phase is the future and will continue to flourish with other areas following in its footsteps. The ASEAN +3 countries being the main ones.

During the cold war you had the bi-polar world. Now you have only the US. The future as many see it will hold a multpolar world with many different areas and nations wanting power. The obvious ones are the US, EU and China. But what does that mean for the smaller nations. Must they align themselves with one of these powers? Also with the concept of the EU enlargement would this be a new form of colonialism in the case of the rest of the world. Smaller countries being dictated to by much larger countries like the US does presently?

If this thread gets even 1 response i would be surprised.

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EU Enlargement - The Challenges

Now anybody can read what challenges the EU would have on a global and macro-economic level. The aspect i want to look at is how the Muslim communities view this enlargement. With the enlargement the EU has nearly doubled its population and with that Roman Catholics or Russian Orthodoxs.

I bring this up because of the "Christian EU Constitution" and the various laws passed in France, Germany, Holland and i believe Denmark, the Muslim community on a whole will face a rather strong resistance from the eastern block of Europe.

Legislation has been passed to prohibit Muslim practices while the eastern block countries are pushing for a more christain identity for Europe. The question is are we looking towards a more crusade orientated europe again or not? After all you have racist facist governments in a good many european communities that gain their support from anti-islamic views they hold.

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Europe of course wants to counter the US and its policies. That i agree with and is a given. To provide political clout and economic power it has to enlarge, but we have seen that these countries differ in their strategies and views. Spain providing troops and France being dead against the war in the first place. France and Germany are the two powerhouses of europe. Britain coming in second and maybe Poland would be a dominant player. But there is still much to be done to get the political will to give up their independence and soverignty say on Foriegn Policy etc. They gave up most of their internal economic power to the ECB but it didnt help much they are still independent in many regards.

Britian also has alot of issues within the continent. Many feel that it is a lapdog of the US and should be kicked out of the EU. They are mainly french but the view has increased due to the current war on Iraq. Though the EU may be economically cohesive. It is nothing like that politically. Its odd, Europe in all manners and aspects except for Foreign policy is the same, yet that is the one thing they wont give up yet collectively they can have the greatest impact.

To gain the political power they want they first gotta establish a system of goverence, which would be hard to do as none of the countries wish to give up their independence.

Also what do you think of other countries following the EU model? SAARC wants a free trade agreement by 2008 (laughable) and India and Pakistan are discussing a common currency. Of course political linkages can be brought only if there is the political will. Do you think any other regions are close to the EU formula or even feel that it could be applied to other regions.

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Lets take things in prospective.

EU :

The European Economic Community came into existence in 1958, with six members: Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands.

Denmark, Ireland and the UK joined what had become known as the European Community in 1973.

Greece joined in 1981; and Portugal and Spain joined in 1986.

A fourth enlargement occurred in 1995, as Austria, Finland and Sweden joined the club, by this stage already known as the European Union.

Three states - Bulgaria, Romania and Turkey are candidates to join.

Bulgaria and Romania are on course for accession in 2007. Turkey has not yet started talks on membership - the EU will decide this year whether to begin them in 2005.

Croatia and the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia have officially applied to join the EU.

The other Balkan countries have all been promised membership if and when they fulfil the political and economic conditions.

No decision has been taken about further expansion to the east, for example to Ukraine or Moldova.

The easiest new members for the EU to digest would be Norway and Switzerland, which have at times come close to opting for membership.

Now what this means like CM said is that the political and more important economical power houses will center around US, EU, Chine and ASEAN.

ASEAN :

The Association of Southeast Asian Nations or ASEAN was established on 8 August 1967 in Bangkok by the five original Member Countries, namely, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand. Brunei Darussalam joined on 8 January 1984, Vietnam on 28 July 1995, Laos and Myanmar on 23 July 1997, and Cambodia on 30 April 1999.

The ASEAN region has a population of about 500 million, a total area of 4.5 million square kilometers, a combined gross domestic product of US$737 billion, and a total trade of US$ 720 billion.

Now look at muslims do we have ANY SAY in all of these groups ...Where does OIC Stands. The Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), set up by the Kings and Heads of State and Government of Islamic States, in 1969. OIC was constituted 2 years after ASEAN. Can we compare the progress made by OIC with ASEAN or EU. Im afraid you know the answer. The lack of sincerity and personal interests of the heads of governments in the muslim states are to be blamed for this dire situation.

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The OIC was never conceived to have the same purpose as the EU or ASEAN.

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^^ I agree, but no institution or organisation can succeed without modifying its role as and when the need arises. Given the contemporary situation, if not all the muslim nations, but something like a G8 style Muslim nations can lead the way under the umberalla of OIC in the fields of Trade , Commerce, Economics and Science. We need not to show our selves as striving for Political or Military alliences but takoing the example of Chine, need to boost the economic ties. How can we be a force in international scenario without building an economical muscle.

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Re: EU Enlargement - The future of Global politics?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Anyway i pose a rather simple question. Do you think the model prescribed by the EU - ie enlargement - will be the face of the world in the days to come. Nationalism and the concept of the Nation state is passe. It is no longer relevant and hasnt been for nearly 2 decades.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think so. Nationalism is passe in liberal diplomatic circles, but it certainly is not gone from the public.. especially those in Europe. The French and Germans may realize that cooperation is nice and can be more efficient, but they still hate each other's guts. The Poles, Slovenes, etc are all fiercely nationalistic. Will submission before the EU tame them? I doubt it. Now it's true that the United States in its early days saw itself as republic composed of largely-sovereign states and gradually shifted away from that in favor of unity and nationalism, but in Europe I don't see that as a real possibility. This isn't exactly the sort of determinism that says Slavs and Krauts are barbarians and will eventually return to fighting.. nope, I just don't think the EU in even an ideal form is a realistic replacement for the nation-state. It is a politico-economic conveniance, nothing more. Anyway, for the concept of the nation-state to really die in Europe the countries would have to give up their rights to conduct individual foreign policy.. that means no Old Europe/New Europe possible.

Eh, I've got too many thought on all of this.. they hardly ever come out coherently :p

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Actually spoon they come out very coherently. There is alot of work to destroy the concept of old and new Europe. They EU wishes to use economics and at point culture to unite the continent. I agree they have an uphill struggle and i agree the former soviet nations are very nationalistic, but Western Europe is not so any more. The free movement of EU nationals allows any EU member to settle where ever they want without any regulation. They just have to inform the country they are moving there.

Of course on other issues there is a lot of integration. Sports namely. That is obvious. But there is a great deal on the ideal of a European identity. A European culture which tehy feel should dominate the identity of the average person. These arent grounded in ethnicity or nationalism. Rather they choose the humanistic perspective. Humanity over anything else. I guess they dont want to repeat the feelings that cause world war 1 and 2.

I agree that they would have to give up foriegn policy to be more united. They are actually working on that. Something dubbed the United states of Europe by the media. The EU already has a parliament which enacts legislation for the EU commission. However it does not over-ride National legislation or soverignty in some areas. On the EU Courts and the EU Commission can do that. However with the implementation of a constitution which they are working on right now that may not be far away.

If you think the EU is not the future model, do you feel that the nation state model will continue with more regions demanding the right to their unique identity like what is happening in Georgia right now? Or do you see nations staying as they are and Free trade agreements only being linked for economic reasons and there will be no political or military unity in say ASEAN or Mercosur or OAU?

Also are you an american? I have come across your posts but i have no clue who you are.

g3nu1n3 i will try to respond sometime today.

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Hey CM, man, sorry for the late reply.. 've had Iraq-on-the-brain lately

Hmm.. I mostly agree with what you say above. I think that before the 'humanistic' approach can settle in as the functioning ideology, above base nationalism/racism/etc, states will have to find their national identity like Georgia. It's an odd process.. one must know themselves before they can know others (okay so I'm no zen master). The urges of nationalism (selfishness) must be overcome individually before cooperation can become one's instict. I think that the EU and it's regional initiatives are on a good path for this (ignoring the many inane bumps).

As far as the rest of the world, other regions are already trying to form alliances. But none of these seem too solid to me. They are more practical alliances for the short term than ideological ones for the long haul. I do, however, believe that the rest of the world will find the pluralistic ideology appealing eventually. They'll first have to go thru the process of tribe-nation-region like I mentioned above. Thing is, a lot of these other regions are more delicate culturally. They still have yet to find their nationalism so it will be a long time before they find their plural unity. Have to remember that most of these countries overlap diverse cultures, whereas Europe benefitted from more defined cultural/national outlines, which let them skip the tribal stage (the Balkans are an exception, due to Ottoman/Austrian colonization).

One question I'd like to ask here is what do you think about the possibilities for nationalistic factionalism reviving after regional unity sets in? That is, once the EU gets settled into its new identity, do you think subnational factions like the Basques, or Bavarians even, will demand local autonomy? Afterall, everyone is equal in the regional whole, what difference does it make where the internal lines are then?

I'm an American :D ]

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My best friend just wrote an article on Eu enlargment and its implications for Africa...it got published...wanna read?

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by cat-woman: *
My best friend just wrote an article on Eu enlargment and its implications for Africa...it got published...wanna read?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, and you should post more in World Affairs as well. :)

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Re: EU Enlargement - The future of Global politics?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
The obvious ones are the US, EU and China. But what does that mean for the smaller nations. Must they align themselves with one of these powers? Also with the concept of the EU enlargement would this be a new form of colonialism in the case of the rest of the world. Smaller countries being dictated to by much larger countries like the US does presently?

[/QUOTE]

The major powers will be USA, EU, Japan, Russia, China and perhaps India also. The constitution of EU obliges the member countries to gradually upgrade their military abilities . It's a first step towards "the foundation of a common army, common safety and defense politics". The EU countries are already spending annualy more than $ 0.5 Billion on defence. The worldwide enforcement of free trade, also through militarily means if it should be, is a central point of their constitution. Germany is defending its interests in the Hindukush, says the german defence minister Struck. The former German defence minister Volker Ruhe promulgated in 1992 the worldwide deployment of Bundes Wehr to ensure the supply of raw materials to Germany. EU is a big military and economic power in making.

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We always have a United States of America made up of 50 States and everyone knows how friendly that state is to the Muslims.

Do we really need another United States of Europe to make sure Muslims don't have a breathing space at all?