Especially for the Brit Guppies.

Why do the brit pakistanis find Pakistan too tough? Is UK life that good?


http://www.webstar.co.uk/~musnews/news/news.php?article=3727
Pakistan too tough for fleeing `rioters’

25-10-2002

By Drew Kendell

Bradford Telegraph & Argus:

A handful of runaway Bradford riot suspects managed to escape to Pakistan -but promptly returned home after finding life there too tough.

Detectives confirmed that about six of those featured on their “wanted list” had jetted out of Britain when they realised the net was closing in.

But faced with the harsh conditions of poverty and strict Islamic law, the fugitives swiftly booked flights back to Britain. Every one of those making the return journey had since been arrested.

It came as detectives from Operation Wheel - the police inquiry into last July’s disorder - repeated their appeal for help in tracing the `last batch’ of suspected rioters who remained at large.

Two weeks ago, they released mugshots of ten people still wanted for their part in the violence which caused £10 million of destruction and saw more than 300 police officers injured.

Two have failed to turn up at court, three have been identified but not traced and five others have yet to be named by the public.

Detective Inspector Christopher Binns said: "After the last appeal we had a disappointing response.

“Officers from Operation Wheel will continue to track them down but it is only with the continued support of the whole community that we can bring what has been a massive inquiry to its earliest conclusion.”

Det Insp Binns said some people might be suffering from what he called `poster blindness’ - where they quickly skim over a newly-published set of mugshots and wrongly think them to be an old one.

“I would ask them to take another careful look,” said Det Insp Binns.

“It would be wrong that these last few suspects are not brought to justice for the devastation that was caused that day. We need people to pick up the phone one more time and give us these names.”

Speaking about those suspects who had escaped to Pakistan, he said: “We know that a few went out but did not like the lifestyle and so flew back to Britain.”

Only two suspects, who flew out many months ago, are thought to remain there.

“We have been liaising with our colleagues in Pakistan to try to trace them,” said Det Insp Binns.

Other suspects who had been picked up in Britain were discovered as far afield as Plymouth and Scotland, he added.

Re: Especially for the Brit Guppies.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by OldLahori: *
Why do the brit pakistanis find Pakistan too tough? Is UK life that good?

[/QUOTE]

There are many differences in UK life and Paksitani life. The basic which I felt being a developed country UK provides same standard of living across country, in villages and cities alike. Pakistan provides that may be higher from uk in certain urban areas, and exteremely bad in other areas.

public and private Services sector is way high in uk, anything from paying a bill to set up new business can be done on phone from home in uk, this is not the case in Pakistan.

the other reason for returning these people they didnt find any work there in pak to support living standard as one in uk here. anf if they are dodgy peaple they must have beeen cheating and getting state benefits here as un employed and at the same time earn money from illegel jobs.

Once you use to whole system which is working in every area of life, it is really shocking for them to realise all those simple things arent avaible in pakistan.

There's a simple answer to your question Oldlahori. The vast majority of those involved in the riots were born and brought up in Bradford. They are young yobs who spend most of their time drinking, doing drugs, and generally finding ways to have a good time. Probably going back to Pakistan was a culture shock to them where it's a lot more difficult to indulge in these activities so they came back. Not to mention the difference in standard of living between a first world country and a third world one.

After all people like yourself who were probably brought up in Pakistan probably find it difficult to adjust when you go back, obviously it will be more difficult for native Brit Pakis.

My aunt and her family have lived in the UK for like 25 years. Mash’allah she I’d visited her this May and let me tell you, Pakistani cities such as Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi etc are much much better off economically than say, the outskirts of London where everything is tight and conjested, expensive, job opportunities are scarce, blatant discrimination exists, and the economic infrastructure is lacking in several respects. Going there from the US for my trip, I was hoping for alot of similarities but UK is truly a second-world country from what I saw. In my view, Pakistanis are much better off in Pakistan than in the UK. :smack:

UK's a great place to live. Sports, entertainment, food, amenities, travel, shopping, press are all among the best in the world. No way could it be described as a second world country.

Granted the film industry stinks but you can't have everthing.

Xtreme, all things considered, UK sure is a second world country, or as economists would put it, a "developing" country as opposed to a developed country such as the US or Canada.

A 'developing' country? What are you on?

I can tell where have you been in London, must be east london. which is most poor borough of UK, so you can imagine that. but mostly outskirt of london are really considered posh areas! you need to think twice when you say UK as second world country! its 4rth largest economy in the world. I agree UK hasnt got life standard as of CAnada, but it is certianly above USA in every aspect. let alone crime! you will hardly find any gun in uk!

may be you just got this feeling cause old traditional buildings of london, but thats only its beauty! I am from lahore, but love living in london, there is only one city I can compare out of pakistan with lahore, culture , lively, and its style!

Ummm Moona... I know the area of London where you visited and trust me.... its one of the poorest parts of Britain. Try heading out to the proper suburbs and experience the wealth....

Moona ever visited the bad parts of Jersey City? How about Camden, the entire city is a dump. Or have you ventured to south central LA or maybe cabrini green and southside chicago? :)

Lets just say even the worst parts of London..Brixton etc seem very posh compared to these "hoods"

Your opinion is appreciated but the world ranking of cities did not think London was that bad :)

I would take their word over personal impressions.

I don't think Moona's travelled much in UK, so maybe she got a skewed perspective. These Americans see films like East is East and they think everybody lives in a 1970 council estate in Bradford :)

As far as the bradford yobs go, they went to Pakistan figured out keh wahan unn say barray ghunday baithay hain, understodd the bhao of ata and daal and came back. hopefully it opens their eyes to see all the potential and opportunity that they have where they are and instead of acting like plonkers if they try to take advantage of these opportunities they would be somewhere.

anyways

This is what the United Nations Human development Report has to say.
US is #6, Canada is #3 and Uk is 13.

Pakistan is #138.

http://www.undp.org/hdr2002/indicator/indic_309_1_1.html

So on average is one really better of living in #138 vs 13?

I dont think so.

'Nuff said

1 Norway -2
2 Sweden -2
3 Canada -1
4 Belgium 5
5 Australia -2
6 United States 0
7 Iceland ..
8 Netherlands -4
9 Japan -3
10 Finland 2
11 Switzerland ..
12 France 2
13 United Kingdom 1
14 Denmark -4
15 Austria ..
16 Luxembourg 6
17 Germany 1
18 Ireland 5
19 New Zealand ..
20 Italy -4
21 Spain 0
22 Israel ..
23 Hong Kong, China (SAR) ..
24 Greece ..
25 Singapore ..
26 Cyprus ..
27 Korea, Rep. of ..
28 Portugal ..
29 Slovenia ..
30 Malta ..
31 Barbados ..
32 Brunei Darussalam ..
33 Czech Republic ..
34 Argentina ..
35 Hungary ..
36 Slovakia ..
37 Poland ..
38 Chile ..
39 Bahrain ..
40 Uruguay ..
41 Bahamas ..
42 Estonia ..
43 Costa Rica ..
44 Saint Kitts and Nevis ..
45 Kuwait ..
46 United Arab Emirates ..
47 Seychelles ..
48 Croatia ..
49 Lithuania ..
50 Trinidad and Tobago ..
51 Qatar ..
52 Antigua and Barbuda ..
53 Latvia ..
54 Mexico ..
55 Cuba ..
56 Belarus ..
57 Panama ..
58 Belize ..
59 Malaysia ..
60 Russian Federation ..
61 Dominica ..
62 Bulgaria ..
63 Romania ..
64 Libyan Arab Jamahiriya ..
65 Macedonia, TFYR ..
66 Saint Lucia ..
67 Mauritius ..
68 Colombia ..
69 Venezuela ..
70 Thailand ..
71 Saudi Arabia ..
72 Fiji ..
73 Brazil ..
74 Suriname ..
75 Lebanon ..
76 Armenia ..
77 Philippines ..
78 Oman ..
79 Kazakhstan ..
80 Ukraine ..
81 Georgia ..
82 Peru ..
83 Grenada ..
84 Maldives ..
85 Turkey ..
86 Jamaica ..
87 Turkmenistan ..
88 Azerbaijan ..
89 Sri Lanka ..
90 Paraguay ..
91 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines ..
92 Albania ..
93 Ecuador ..
94 Dominican Republic ..
95 Uzbekistan ..
96 China ..
97 Tunisia ..
98 Iran, Islamic Rep. of ..
99 Jordan ..
100 Cape Verde ..
101 Samoa (Western) ..
102 Kyrgyzstan ..
103 Guyana ..
104 El Salvador ..
105 Moldova, Rep. of ..
106 Algeria ..
107 South Africa ..
108 Syrian Arab Republic ..
109 Viet Nam ..
110 Indonesia ..
111 Equatorial Guinea ..
112 Tajikistan ..
113 Mongolia ..
114 Bolivia ..
115 Egypt ..
116 Honduras ..
117 Gabon ..
118 Nicaragua ..
119 Sao Tome and Principe ..
120 Guatemala ..
121 Solomon Islands ..
122 Namibia ..
123 Morocco ..
124 India ..
125 Swaziland ..
126 Botswana ..
127 Myanmar ..
128 Zimbabwe ..
129 Ghana ..
130 Cambodia ..
131 Vanuatu ..
132 Lesotho ..
133 Papua New Guinea ..
134 Kenya ..
135 Cameroon ..
136 Congo ..
137 Comoros ..
138 Pakistan ..
139 Sudan ..
140 Bhutan ..
141 Togo ..
142 Nepal ..
143 Lao People’s Dem. Rep. ..
144 Yemen ..
145 Bangladesh ..
146 Haiti ..
147 Madagascar ..
148 Nigeria ..
149 Djibouti ..
150 Uganda ..
151 Tanzania, U. Rep. of ..
152 Mauritania ..
153 Zambia ..
154 Senegal ..
155 Congo, Dem. Rep. of the ..
156 Côte d’Ivoire ..
157 Eritrea ..
158 Benin ..
159 Guinea ..
160 Gambia ..
161 Angola ..
162 Rwanda ..
163 Malawi ..
164 Mali ..
165 Central African Republic ..
166 Chad ..
167 Guinea-Bissau ..
168 Ethiopia ..
169 Burkina Faso ..
170 Mozambique ..
171 Burundi ..
172 Niger ..
173 Sierra Leone

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Mr Xtreme: *
I don't think Moona's travelled much in UK, so maybe she got a skewed perspective. These Americans see films like East is East and they think everybody lives in a 1970 council estate in Bradford :)
[/QUOTE]

Xtreme, even a 1970's council estate in bradford is better than camden, NJ, Gery, Indiana, Cabrini Green part of Chicago, North Philadelphia, South Central LA and offcourse 50% of detroit :) lest add places like jersey city in that list too

Man I still don't understand how Norway and Iceland ended up so high in the list. Aren't those places kinda bland?

Ok guys, before you all jump down my throat for nothing, my aunt and her family live quite well in the nice part of London, mash’allah. I was speaking of the parts I saw from the car as we travelled thorugh London’s outskirts.

Yes of course I’ve seen the bad parts of US as well, such as Jersey City or Newark, bad parts of NYC, and whatnot. There are economically rich and economically depressed parts in all countries. My point is that OVERALL, given the factors I mentioned such as extremely high prices on ex. petroleum, food, clothing and basic necessities, poor infrastructure, poor economy, poor job market, prejudice, etc etc etc etc, the UK is not too a desirable country to live in. Not saying that the US is perfect either yet it is COMPARITIVELY much better, as is Pakistan for those Pakistanis who are unskilled and have dreams of going to the UK to make a better life but once they get there, end up doing menial tasks. It’s not a nice thing to see. :rolleyes:

Lifestyle and opportunities in the UK do not come close to what the US offers. Need I remind you all of simple amenities like good water pressure and orthodontists.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by moona: *
Ok guys, before you all jump down my throat for nothing, ]/B]

well too late for that :stuck_out_tongue:

my aunt and her family live quite well in the nice part of London, mash’allah. I was speaking of the parts I saw from the car as we travelled thorugh London’s outskirts.

** My point is that OVERALL, given the factors I mentioned such as extremely high prices on ex. petroleum, food, clothing and basic necessities, poor infrastructure, poor economy, poor job market, prejudice, etc etc etc etc, the UK is not too a desirable country to live in. Not saying that the US is perfect either yet it is COMPARITIVELY much better, **

well as the UN report would note, the difference is not quite as much between Uka nd US, but Pakistan is way lower in the list.

**as is Pakistan for those Pakistanis who are unskilled and have dreams of going to the UK to make a better life but once they get there, end up doing menial tasks. **

They are unskilled workers, they would be doign unskilled tasks in Pakistan too, Here atleast they have access to better educational opportunities and a system which will strive to provide education, livelihood, housing and healthcare to them.

There are plenty of unskilled Pakistanis in US too, the cabbies, the 7-11 clerks. There were just a higher number of uneducated ppl from Pakistan who were brought to UK for teh textile industry work and when that slowed down, these ppl were out of luck. They did poor planning and usually were not focused on an incremental increase in lifestyle and social standing for their future generations.

**It’s not a nice thing to see. :rolleyes: **

It is def not a nice thing to see, but their lives are still much better than what they would have been had they chosen to stay in Pakistan.

Its not a nice thing to see a guy who is the age of my grandfather sweeping at Heathrow but could you imagine what he would be doing in Pakistan?

Has anyone ever ventured into low income areas in Pakistani cities? Ranchorr lines? Malir? landhi? Aurangi?

I have..and believe me..there is no comparison.

Nowegians look down at the U.S too :)

And when I say a few words about Karachi, every one jumps on my throat. Go figure. It’s like my kabab is better than your sausage. The bottomline is that you like a place, or you don’t. It is not a reflection on the place, but on your preference. I would never in a million year go and live in Norway or Sweden (when I can have blonds here in NYC).

Chalta hai-hai, you forgot to mention shrinks and plastic surgeons, professions which are highly in demand on your side of the Atlantic :)