Having had the opportunity to do some preliminary exploration in London on the entertainment scene I’ve gotta say that the south asian community has made major head-way.
From television to stage show to major cinema productions, they have 'em all. North America will need to advance in leaps and bounds just to catch up forget about matching it.
Anyone else face similar conclusions?
Muzna
Being a brit, living in USA... I have tried to communicate this to US-desis about the headway UK paks have made, which they never believe. But then due to our national stigma, as a collective...UK is still seen as an opressive, extremely racist place where desis have no opportunities etc etc.
US desis in comparison to UK desis have not grabbed the areas of entertainment, politics, sports etc etc.
OOoh but you ant say that openly cuz every abcd will try to prove otherwise now.
Yours truly
in'it?
:)
It be it be!
true dat
it in Muzna..I agree totally. UK pakis are way ahead in the national limelite compared to their US counterparts. But its not because they are intellectually advanced in anyway. For one, pakis have been in UK much longer than they have been in the US. (remember mirpur khaas, dina, mangla). Secondly, UK is the size of the state of Delaware. Thirdly, UK is physically closer to Pak, which makes a big difference. It took them years before they introduced Zee tv in the US. I hear they even have PTV on dish in UK. All these factors do add up to an easier merger into the culture and politics of UK for Pakis.
[This message has been edited by Akif (edited December 08, 1999).]
However...asians have made headway into every area. We had sherwani play field hockey for england and that one bloke in the cricket team.
Regardless of how big or small the country is..if you factor the population..and the time..and the "proximity" to Pakistan..etc etc. It would dictate that there would be some desi representation in american public life. Do we see any?
I still stand by my point that this just indicates that UK is not quite as racist as most desis claim it to be otherwise desis would not be in all such arenas.
Akif,
I didn't suggest anywhere that the desi community in UK is more or less intellectual that that of North America. I can't even begin to draw such a conclusion based on the little exposure that I have had.
All of the points that you have mentioned are valid Akif. Yes, the country is smaller and in closer proximity to the sub-continent, and yes, the desi community has been there for a longer duration. Mind you, some of the sikh community can boast over a hundred years in Canada in and around Vancouver...so they may put up some dispute.
What I did suggest is that the community in UK have managed to infiltrate the media/entertainment industry very well. They have dedicated programs (e.g. Goodness Gracious Me), sit-coms and melas in convention centres that rival major commercial exhibitions. Stage productions like "Don't look at my sister, innit!" tour the major cities to packed houses.
Not only that, they have also successfully entered the local entertainment scene as actors, writers, journalists etc. (e.g. Eastenders).
They are no longer relying on bolly/lollywood representation to provide glamorous on-stage productions or serials.
Here, on the other side of the pond, there seems to be no end to the love affair with the Great Khans and the Urmila's, Ash's and Reema's. North American desis are still taken by the Junaid's and the Junoon's while UK grows it's own talent.
When will we begin to give our young artists the same encouragement?
Muzna
If you get a chance go to see Fun-da-Mental.
The founder of the group Aki nawaz also founded the great rock band, the cult which he later left.
These guys are way too good. If ya see em.. haha aki wont remember me but tell "D" and Muzzafar that kamz says hello.
US and UK are remarkably different though, and since Pakistan is a derivative of UK, anyway you cut it, Pakistanis find it easier to blend in british culture from what i have seen and noticed. US doesnt have that kind of a centered culture. It varies widely and wildly from state to state, which is why I believe no outside culture has been able to make definite headway in the US where they can claim to have set a precedent of some sort. Its not just Pakistanis, Indians arent that deep into US media etc either. So i believe its not about Pakistanis in the US or UK. Its about foreigners in general.
Muzna ji --yes, UK is a good place to live for Pakistanis (to an extent). Certainly it is not what the Americans imagine it to be like…pakistanis are starting to do quite well–although (and it pains me to write this)–we are far behind the indians in nearly every field: especially education. After the Chinese, the Indians top the academic achievement rankings here–Pakistanis achieve below what the ingrez do
http://www.pak.org/gupshup/frown.gif
It is changing but slowly—also most of the people who have broken into the media limelight are indians as well (eg Goodness Gracious Me). Unfortunately, people collectively refer to us as ‘desis’ and so w get the rosy image you portray above. For ‘desis’ it is true but not I’m afraid for ‘Pakis’. Certainly not in media anyway…
BUT the good news is that it is changing now as Pakistanis too are beginning to see the benefits of getting a university education…
I can think of a few Pakistanis who are now quite well-known personalities on TV: Mina Anwar is one; Art Malik of course is quite famous (even in USA? He came in True Lies); Hanif Kureishi; and some one or two cricketers who’ve played for England…but even these ‘famous’ people you will notice are ‘brown sahibs/apostates’ (Hanif Kureishi/Art Malik); oh yeh, Aki Nawaz is quite famous here now…
It seems you have to give up your own culture to make it big on TV/Media…
Asif,
who is Mina Anwar?
I think a lot of this cultural thing is down to the fact the Desi have been in this country a long time - initially for economic reasons and then since then they have settled down and a lot of the second generation treat the UK as their home rather than Pakistan or India. There are a lot of Asian musicians out here who have a big following - these are mainly Indians - namely the Bhangra groups (which actually originally started their stage lives at Weddings), there are not too many UK grown Pakistani singers - yes there is Aki Nawaz and fundamental BUT I could never like his music - it just seems to be a lot of noise. The other musician was Najma Akhter - a Ghazal singer. As far as comedians are concerned - the only Pakistani who has done sort of OK has been Jeff Mirza - even he is only doing the clubs around the country. Goodness Gracious Me has opened the eyes of the English about Asians and they are more aware of them.
sporting wise - the player of note has been the Hockey player - I can't remember his name - and you talk about the bloke in the cricket team - Nasser Hussain - I know his Dad and his brothers and I can tell you there is no Pakistani origin there - he is a half caste - the desi half being Indian.
Yes we do have our Paksitani channel here - but the talent on that is all Pakistani.
I am sure there is cultural talent in the US but as it is a bigger country it is harder to see.
Even though we have started to break in to these areas - mostly the country is very cosmopolitan - but don't be fooled by it - there is still deep rooted racism out there - that racism is only apparent when the job scene is not too good.
Paksitanis have been going to Universities for a long time - but unlike the Indians we just like to cruise in life and do just enough - no more no less.
Preliminary exploration...is that what you were doing over here? (just kidding hon!).
AKIF...I don't think Mirpur & Jhelum exist in Pak. anymore, as the entire population lives here in Luton and Bradford.
Having been born and raised here in London, I have never encountered racism as such. I have found it helpfull being a desi when it comes to employment. We are percieved Wrongly, maybe)as being loyal, hardworking and intelligent.
Asif...you're so right. we indians DO come a mere second after the chineese. The Pakistanis are not at the bottom of the league tables in education..the Bengalis are!
Azhar...Najma Akhtar...a great singer...I've been to her concerts...she does a great mix of Hindi, Punjabi AND English songs. Truelly an eclectic performer! Now that's the way to get ahead!
I must admit though that the Indians are ahead in leaps and bounds compared to the Pakistanis here. They are the ones who are usually breaking the ground for desis as a whole.
I agree totally with AKIF. Indians are 2nd in education whereas the Pakistanis are 2nd from bottom, only just ahead of the Bengalis.
The main racism here in London is from within our own communities.
In South Africa (2nd largest expat. desi comm.after UK), they all mix together.
Give it time. As more 2nd and 3rd Gen. desis are born and struggle to retain their identity in the U.S., the more advances you will see.
(BTW, our Govt. helps a great deal...paying for the 50 or so Melas every year. Our Maulanna's salaries, Ethnic Minority schemes, etc. Urdu is now taught in local schools in East London as a second language...replacing French!).
I dont want to stray from the subject here, so first Aki Nawaz... the guy founded the Cult... I guess that does say something.
And though people may not like his music..it is breakinbg new grounds, and is music with a message.. try the website and read some lyrics and their political involvement etc.
anyways..I wanted to discuss a subject that I had brought up in culture section way back.. which focused on desis ability to use racism as a trump card in each and every situation...I for one have expereinced more racism in Saudi, Pakistan and USA than in the UK. I have lived in all 4 countries. It seems rather strange that anyone who went to a decent school and has a decent personality and outlook with a marketable skill is never found complaining about not finding a job due to racism. I will probably start a thread on that in general section, unless u guys beat me to it.
Azhar--Mina Anwar is a pakistani actress who was one of the main stars of a BBC comedy series called The Blue Line-she played a Muslim policewoman. It was v. funny....
Asif,
Oh, her - yes she is funny but the way I have seen here present some awards show - she was dressed well - not like a Muslim girl or a Pakistani girl should.
But yes she was and the show was very funny.