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EB I agree with you but our army and ISI has brought this upon themselves, they should admit it publicly that they stand no chance against the Americans but by making bold statements, and getting a drone or helicopter incursions form the Americans have made our forces look like fools and clowns.
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EB I agree with you but our army and ISI has brought this upon themselves, they should admit it publicly that they stand no chance against the Americans but by making bold statements, and getting a drone or helicopter incursions form the Americans have made our forces look like fools and clowns.
They don't need to do so.
Talking about America from them can enhance problems for us.
Simply one of them should come before NA.
We need only an assurance from them that they should do their job with 'honesty' and will keep them focused on national security , Justice and merit.
I advise them again to find and train some intelligent and high qualified people for ISI.
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Why isn't IB being grilled as well? Isn't internal intelligence the main responsibility for them? I guess that shaoib suddle has been an absolute failure.
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They don't need to do so. Talking about America from them can enhance problems for us. Simply one of them should come before NA. We need only an assurance from them that they should do their job with 'honesty' and will keep them focused on national security , Justice and merit. I advise them again to find and train some intelligent and high qualified people for ISI.
Why isn't IB being grilled as well? Isn't internal intelligence the main responsibility for them? I guess that shaoib suddle has been an absolute failure.
To do that we need a govt which has guts and has national interest at heart. Not the current govt, they dont have the guts to challenge or hold accountable the head of security agencies or the army. That is the tragedy.
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end of misery is always a turn to the better. Like happened in your cricket my hope and prayers that Pakistan and Pakistanis take the right set of decisions, make the changes necessary and come out of the decades of misery. So that the region can be peaceful and in collaboration with India, achieve best potential for all nations and peoples in the sub-continent.
Let not part fo teh sub-continent be left out of the Asian century
Jai Ram
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To do that we need a govt which has guts and has national interest at heart. Not the current govt, they dont have the guts to challenge or hold accountable the head of security agencies or the army. That is the tragedy.
N$ tried for this after an event like this,perhaps more shame full.
What happened to him, Only escaped alive due to being from Lahore.
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N$ tried for this after an event like this,perhaps more shame full. What happened to him, Only escaped alive due to being from Lahore.
This is the trouble, as I said early we put party before country, like you are doing now. Think of Pakistan first and your party loyalty second.
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I think what Ehsan bhai has written makes lot of sense. Actually, in my opinion, what Pakistan armed forces (in other words, Generals) are doing, in their view it is right thing to do for security, progress and development of Pakistan. They might be wrong, or could be right, it all depends on our own perception of situation, and we as individuals might have done things differently, but then we are not in their shoes to say what they should think and consider right or wrong.
Anyhow, the way many Pakistanis think and behave, they are more concerned with petty things that may benefit them (for instance ethnic loyalty, provincial loyalty, political loyalty, political interest, and self interest) but in doing so, they do not care what harm they are causing or could cause Pakistan.
Just imagine, there are people who might criticise Pakistan army, Pakistani government, and America ... but would not like to criticise Taliban and their wish for enforced beliefs on others. For instance:
One (USA) is paying to momentarily violate sovereignty of Pakistan, rather they are not even violating sovereignty, as their violation could be with consent of Pakistani armed forces and political government, so in reality their momentarily violation is not real violation but propaganda. Still these people would love to criticise USA ‘on violation of Pakistan sovereignty’ and since they consider army and government is cooperating with USA (or are not responding to USA as they wish), they criticise army and government too.
These people do not realise (or do not want to realise that), even if Americans are violating Pakistan sovereignty, they are doing that to kill those (OBL, other Al-Q members, Taliban, TTP) who are continuously violating Pakistan sovereignty.
On the other hand, we have group of people (OBL, other Al-Q members, Taliban, TTP) who are continuously violating sovereignty of Pakistan, and along with that, are killing innocent Pakistani intentionally on daily basis, deliberately and indiscriminately. They are also spreading sectarianism in Pakistan, blowing Pakistanis religious places, mosques, schools, government offices, buildings, and are also challenging, fighting, and brutally killing (by cutting throat) Pakistani armed forces, and people working for Pakistan. But unfortunate thing is that, people who talk about first violation (that is American violation) consider those who are really violating sovereignty of Pakistan, blowing Pakistani religious places, mosques, and buildings, and are brutally killing Pakistanis, as heroes.
I think, Pakistanis should come out of emotion, start thinking, and judging matters considering Pakistan as sovereign but financially as well as militarily weak country (compare to world powers writing the fate of countries).
Pakistan can only become powerful sovereign country if Pakistan economy grows substantially, and Pakistan starts building quality industrial goods as well as military equipments internally sufficient enough to fulfil requirements (not like, making half-a-dozen F-17 a year, less than 100 Khalid tanks a year, etc ... when Pakistan needs to make over 100 F-17 a year, 1000s Khalid tanks a year, and so on to fulfil requirements). Even quality matters and for that, Pakistan has to spend billions of dollars on research every year, but unfortunately, Pakistan do not even spends billion dollar in basic education, leave billions of dollars on research.
So, until that day comes, Pakistanis have to live compromisingly. ... Well, problem is that, how can that day could come to Pakistan, as most engineers, scientists, doctors, academia, they may study on Pakistani subsidy in Pakistan, or belong to Pakistan living abroad, but once qualified, they prefer to work, serve, and earn in western countries or USA (same west and USA they love to criticise), so to make their own personal life better (and this love to work, serve, and earn in USA is a disease that is across the board, even amongst Al-Q candidates, that is the reason Afia brother, sister and she herself worked in USA many years – her brother is still living and working in USA). Unfortunately, those who do not leave to better their life working abroad, when they work in Pakistan, they are people who damn care for Pakistan, rather take bribe, violate Pakistani laws, and loot the country at first opportunity.
So, advice is, before criticising one should think, look at own loyalty and behaviour, look at facts, and then criticise.
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Nice post. I liked these parts:
" people who talk about first violation (that is American violation) consider those who are really violating sovereignty of Pakistan, blowing Pakistani religious places, mosques, and buildings, and are brutally killing Pakistanis, as heroes."
There are also those who consider these fanatics as heroes but don't admit it openly. However, it is easy to identify these apologists.
"Pakistan can only become powerful sovereign country if Pakistan economy grows substantially".
This is also important. People don't realize the importance of power of economy. Their focus is still on other things like implementing religious beliefs, changing social structure to meet their goals, supporting their political parties; but don't see how we can achieve economic independence.
I don't think Pak ISI or military is incompetent to stop Americans. It is just the difference between a technologically advanced country and a country which knows nothing about research and development. Heck, we are even dissolving HEC. And there are educated people who argue why Pakistan does not need new PhD's.
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end of misery is always a turn to the better. Like happened in your cricket my hope and prayers that Pakistan and Pakistanis take the right set of decisions, make the changes necessary and come out of the decades of misery. So that the region can be peaceful and in collaboration with India, achieve best potential for all nations and peoples in the sub-continent.
Let not part fo teh sub-continent be left out of the Asian century
Jai Ram
Nice words.
Now back this up with actions. Stop training terrorists in Balochistan, believe me that will go very well for the security in subcontinent.
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no worries people, remember..we have a free and independent judiciary with a CJ who has even received honorary degree from harvard for his focus on law and stuff, he is also very good at taking Sou Moto actions. He will be taking the right steps to hold our civilian and military leaders accountable...any minute now..
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An Indian perspective for what it is worth :
Firstly - India is no first world country and I can see such incompetence from our army and intelligence agencies as well. Some years ago - we allowed foreigners to air drop a cache of arms in Purulia, West Bengal and at least one foreign perpetretor to escape after being caught. In 2008 we allowed a boatful of "gentlemen from Pakistan" to wreck havoc in Mumbai.
Having said that, if an event like last week's had occured in India - you can be sure that writing an OpEd in the Washington Post will NOT be among the first things that our Prime Minister (Manmohan Singh) will do. There would be mass protests everywhere followed by a spate of resignations and the opposition parties and the Indian media would not let this issue die down easily.
It is amazing to me how quiet the Pak Government has been in the aftermath of the events of last week. This to me indicates complicity of some sort (my stand in the ongoing "complicit VS incompetent" argument).
btw, does Zardari not even appear in public anymore ? I don't recall seeing a current picture of him in the news media for a long time. Is he also hiding in some fortified compound ?
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One thing is for certain. Our elite (civilian + military + intelligence) is corrupt and serving its own interests
More worryingly it is clear that our nuclear assets are not as safe as previously thought. Who is to say that Americans or Israelis could n't also jam our auto defense mechanisms (if they already do not have this technology) at sensitive sites and take them out or atleast partially destroy them in future
About time ISI came to it's senses and ended it's obsession with India and jihad. Let the indian Kashmiris be where they are. Let's fix our own internal issues like corruption, economy, education and health.
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This is the trouble, as I said early we put party before country, like you are doing now. Think of Pakistan first and your party loyalty second.
This is real trouble. You always support killers.
Nothing wrong there because 4000 years behind that.
Zardai is sure not good but who one else .
My party is Pakistan so I support PPP because only chain left to bind Pakistan.
We are too looking and wishing a change but acceptable to all parts of Pakistan.
Your attitude to support killers have created a great rift in Pakistan.
They are not ready to believe anyone from ..........
I am trying to be one for the little presence of one for there rights from your area.
At least they could think that there are some .........
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One thing is for certain. Our elite (civilian + military + intelligence) is corrupt and serving its own interests
More worryingly it is clear that our nuclear assets are not as safe as previously thought. What is to say that Americans or Israelis could n't also jam our auto defense mechanisms (if they already do not have this technology) at sensitive sites and take them out or atleast partially destroy them in future
About time ISI came to it's senses and ended it's obsession with India and jihad. Let the indian Kashmiris be where they are. Let's fix our own internal issues like corruption, economy, education and health.
ISI has to be professionalized like CIA and Mossad, as right now army officers perform stints in the agency like how brigadiers are seconded to FC, which is not how the spying business works. I posted a good article by Irfan Hussain which actually touched on the same subject.
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Hahaha
Do you think Raymond Davis went away alone.
So called Sou motto are one sided.
Missing persons are forgotten.
More than two years for waiting of Shahbaz Shareef’s eligibility case.
People of Pakistan have left looking to him.
They are not looking to anyone alive.
Their eyes are up to sky and looking for a miracle.
Must read and think
Why the people of rest of Pakistan don’t trust.
Justice Javed Iqbal’s parents murdered