I have watched with dismay for the past week as the issue of shais and sunnis has generated a lot of heat in this forum. I think now its gotten to the point that people are simply flaming each other and it is time to take a stricter line.
If you have an issue to discuss here or want to raise a point feel absolutely free to do that.. however if you post abusive messages directed at other people or directly abuse any religion then I will not be so kind.
This is the religion section so I expect people to act politely.
I have said previously that this sort of thing is counter-productive as there are ways of making any argument seem logical. Most sensible people here have tried to stay away from this type of useless discussion till now but when one side is repeatedly pushing a viewpoint without answer, a response is called for.
Hopefully we can leave it at that. Anybody who wants to explore this further has the URLs and can do it of their own accord.
the differences between the shia and the sunni primarily stem from their position and understanding of the principle of leadership, who the former term as "imamate" and the later "khilafat".
two historical incidents that have had an impact over the fate of the muslims need to be understood and read with utmost seriousness. one of them refers to the last sermon of the Prophet sallalahu alaihas salams at Ghadir Khumm, where the Prophet stated,
[quote]
Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: "O' people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance... The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times)."
[/quote]
References:
Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.
Sahih Muslim, see Chapter CMXCVI, v4, p1286, Tradition #5920 - english translation
the second un-fortunate incident occured at the Saqifa bani Sa'dah. for this any historical work would suffice.
with regards
abu Kumayl
[This message has been edited by AliAbbas (edited January 13, 2000).]
The person who did most of the 'flaming' is Mr. Xtreme, the very person who is being coy and nonchalant in this thread.
Mr. Xtreme, Akif or Asif, Iqadeer know that the message contained in Peshawar Nights re: Betrayal of the Prophet (PBUH&HF)cannot be refuted - there's just too much evidence, substantiated by both Shia & Sunni scholars. So, diversionary tactics were used; instead of staying focused on the subject matter of Peshawar Nights, Mr. Xtreme started new threads - all blatantly anti-shia, like:
1)An Alternative to Peshawar Night
2)Shias curse the wives of the Prophet (SAW)
3)What Shias really think about Sunni muslims.
I have been advised that Mr. Xtreme behaved in the same virulent way in the debate with the Ahmedias, posting (copy & paste)multitudes of anti-Ahmedia info. He has great ability to Copy & Paste.
Mr Iqadeer had this to say, number of times:
"....they (Shias) must be dealt with even before the kuffar, i.e. exterminated along with their munafiq philosophy."
To Iqadeer, I can't help saying this, no matter how many times; each time, the significance is enhanced:
"Silly people with their silly delusions."
wowyi complains about my copying and pasting from anti-shia sites but conveniently ignores all the stuff copied and pasted from Peshawar Nights.
Also ignores the filthy outbursts against the Sahaba (RA) from 2Pak like calling Abu Bakr a "bastard" and all sunnis "cock suckers"
wowyi you are only putting your own foot in your mouth with your sanctimonious poison.
My conscious is clear...anybody can check the start of the Shia/Sunni hate campaign and they will see it was started by the Shias. Even now when people have tried to bring it to an end, people like you are carrying out your anti-muslim agenda on behalf of your kafir masters.
It is clear now that you Shias (or at least the sect that you belong to) would happily unite with the swine eating kafirs and Ahmediya zandeeq rather than come to an agreement with Sunnis.
Peshawar Nights contains verifiable proof substantiated by both Sunni (your own) and Shia scholars, re: betrayal of our Prophet (PBUH&HF). You are a mere pawn to that plot hatched by your Sunni compatriots. Good Luck!!!
Peshawar Nights contains nothing more than a play on words. You are accusing those whom the Prophet(SAW) loved in his lifetime and never once accused of treachery in a way that only an enemy of muslims could do so. You and the hindus/jews will make good bedfellows. Take the Qadiani liars with you.
I thought you guys were talking about hatered among sunis and Shias, where these Qadianis came from. I am sure whatever happened during this debate between Shias and Sunnis were not started by Qadiani, why every slap had to end on Qadianis face. SO, please keep your debate among to yourself. As far as what I think about Hazart Abu Baker and other Sahabas, I think Hazart Abu Baker was the best person among the non-prophets. And Actually if you read history, he looks like taller than some of the Jews Prophets. This is my believe and I am not starting any debate either. If you have a different believes than you are entitle to have one as long as you don't cross bonderies.
Play on words is what Xtreme says about Peshawar Nights, when very reputable Sunni scholars have been quoted in it.
I can see why Sunnis are up in arms because you have been brainwashed to believe that only Sunnis (which Sunni sect is again very debateable)are true muslims! Going up against that established facade of lies could bring that house of card crumbling down!
He is only pissed off because he cannot find his identity where he lives. He curses his parents for bringing him to the West and wished that he lived with his brethren in Afghanistan. At the same time he likes the luxuries in England. It is only a confusion that he is faced with. We should help him feel better about himself. So guys, please back off from getting all so upset with our friend Xtreme, insulting other faiths is the least (may be not last) of his problems. His first problem is to discover his identity. Please help him.
That's a bit disappointing NYA. First you need to understand how i judge what is wrong and right. Then you will know how I don't have any problems with modern technology, but I don't eat pigs like you. One is halal the other isn't. Simple really.
And please; I don't curse my parents. In fact I even sent my good wishes for your mother when she was taken ill recently despite our differences so be careful what you say. I know who I am...a good friend to my friends and a bad enemy to those who cross me. I don't mind if you disagree with what I say but leave your character assasinations out of it. Or would you like me to reply in kind? Thank you.
Wowyi,
you are pathetic. You don't have the decency to refrain from starting a fight and then you start whining when you get both barrels. Keep your anti-sunni bile to yourself and you won't get any back.
“>>>You and the hindus/jews will make good bedfellows. Take the Qadiani liars with you.<<<”
Dear Mr. Xtreme. What is this? Is the above statement not indicative of how you feel towards others who don’t share your belief system? Now you are confusing me along with yourself. How about if we substitute some of the faiths in your quote with some of those that you like. How about if I say that Suni/Ismailee will make good bedfellows, and take Wahabi liars with you. Will that sound Halal to you? Time to move on from pig eating. We all know that you don’t eat pigs – because pig meat is pricey. Eat British beef.
How about if I say that Suni/Ismailee will make good bedfellows, and take Wahabi liars with you. Will that sound Halal to you?
It sounds just fine. At least I will know where you are coming from. I would like to point out though, that I only take exception to those non-muslims who deliberately try to negate my beliefs. A bit like USA might object to communism. So I have nothing against Zen Buddhists for example.
British beef is also no problem. There are halal varieties available in England. Got any good recipes?
Dear Mr. Xtreme, if you are really sincere about your convictions (and I am sure you are) you will make a strong case about opening up Handi Rooti, so we can take our discussions there. That is something that both YOU and I agree upon. And that is a wonderful feeling!!!!!
P.S. I sincerely hope that our disagreements in this thread remain here, and we don’t drag our beliefs in other areas of our life.